MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.

[Carana]

Yes when you look at the charts the peaks are spaced out but most times there is another peak real close (these are the two alleles of that gene.  They have similar length so they have a similar weight.  I read about the methods of LCN DNA analysis and I started to understand it.  Alleles can drop out (not copied) or drop in with contamination.  There can also be spluttering where the alleles don't copy perfectly and you get multiple peaks close together.

Interpreting the peaks seems quite specialised:
http://www.bioforensics.com/dna-testing-issues/

[Robittybob1]

Interpreting the peaks seems quite specialised:
http://www.bioforensics.com/dna-testing-issues/

One term I have been using incorrectly - stuttering not sputtering.

[Carana]

I didn't know that.  amelogenin the paternity sex gene.  OK.

Hmm, it doesn't determine paternity, as such. Determining paternity (to whatever degree of probability) is the result of all of the allele values at the various markers / loci examined.

Examining the amelogenin marker wouldn't establish that Gerry is Madeleine's biological father (or Kate, the mother) - it establishes the fact that the sample belongs to a female. If ever the pillow stain had shown XY,  then irrespective of whether all the rest of the results were compatible with Gerry being the father or Kate, the mother, the profile in the stain couldn't have belonged to Madeleine.

[Robittybob1]

Hmm, it doesn't determine paternity, as such. Determining paternity (to whatever degree of probability) is the result of all of the allele values at the various markers / loci examined.

Examining the amelogenin marker wouldn't establish that Gerry is Madeleine's biological father (or Kate, the mother) - it establishes the fact that the sample belongs to a female. If ever the pillow stain had shown XY,  then irrespective of whether all the rest of the results were compatible with Gerry being the father or Kate, the mother, the profile in the stain couldn't have belonged to Madeleine.

Very good and thanks for the correction.  Learning heaps thanks. I'll make some corrections later.

[Robittybob1]

Yes when you look at the charts the peaks are spaced out but most times there is another peak real close (these are the two alleles of that gene.  They have similar length so they have a similar weight.  I read about the methods of LCN DNA analysis and I started to understand it.  Alleles can drop out (not copied) or drop in with contamination.  There can also be spluttering where the alleles don't copy perfectly and you get multiple peaks close together.

The 103 location I now believe is the amelogenin allele (x,y) and because Madeleine was a female she is homozygous so it shows as a single peak.
The other single peak is the site where she inherited the same allele from both parents and hence homozygous there at the 186.84 site.
I saw a chart with the total number of alleles commonly found and it was less than 100 sites.

[Robittybob1]

I want to be able to understand the meaning behind the DNA analyses in the case. 
I want to be able to understand this paragraph "Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion."

[stephen25000]

I want to be able to understand the meaning behind the DNA analyses in the case.

...and what then ?

You have claimed to be a scientist.

Try researching it yourself.

[Robittybob1]

...and what then ?

You have claimed to be a scientist.

Try researching it yourself.

What do you think I have been doing today?

[Robittybob1]

Typing on here has taken but a few minutes.  I've watched several lectures on DNA analysis
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=UUjpWy3YdG24iySWTBS4jU2Q  Dane Crane a professor and a very good lecturer.  It would take 2 days to watch all 16 of the videos. and to fully understand it all I might need to go through them twice.

[Robittybob1]

For understanding mixed samples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVHo1Pjf210&list=UUjpWy3YdG24iySWTBS4jU2Q&index=13

"Statistical weights of mixed DNA profiles (HD version)"

[Mr Gray]

With respect you don't need it and it won't help
Carana has explained it very well
The sample just wasn't good enough and came from a mix of at least 3 different people
Although elements of Maddies DNA were there those elements could have come from other people

[ferryman]

With respect you don't need it and it won't help
Carana has explained it very well
The sample just wasn't good enough and came from a mix of at least 3 different people
Although elements of Maddies DNA were there those elements could have come from other people

OR from Madeleine, by secondary-transfer.  Items of her clothing or other belongings with her dna on it, transported in the boot and with her dna on it, transferred into the mix.

[Robittybob1]

OR from Madeleine, by secondary-transfer.  Items of her clothing or other belongings with her dna on it, transported in the boot and with her dna on it, transferred into the mix.

How would these other people's cells get into the places where they took the swabs?  OK there maybe the odd cell or two floating around and landing on an upper surface but weren't the swabs taken from under a mat?

[Robittybob1]

With respect you don't need it and it won't help
Carana has explained it very well
The sample just wasn't good enough and came from a mix of at least 3 different people
Although elements of Maddies DNA were there those elements could have come from other people

Where are the results, which chart are we considering?  Which chart shows evidence of 3 different people being the source?  It certainly isn't the one we have been referring to up till now.  I'd say that is more the reference sample.  If it isn't where is the reference sample?
Note: That chart I see is produced Wed May 23 2007 so it is produced before the swabs were taken from the car.

[Robittybob1]

Important Note: That chart I see is produced Wed May 23 2007 so it is produced before the swabs were taken from the car.
So this is definitely the reference sample.

Where are the evidence sample's DNA Profile results that came from the back of the hire car?