MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.

[Mr Gray]

What could be seen from a satellite?  I don't think you could get an identification.
What I'm noticing is a triangle of the Smiths who claim to have seen Gerry (80% certainty), Kevin Halligen who promised the satellite images, and Amaral who believed the Smiths and believed there were the satellite images.
Then you might add in Brian Kennedy who funds the search, and contacts the Smiths to produce the e-fits which to a lot of people look a lot like Gerry McCann.

It just shows again amarals limited understanding that he thought a satellite image of the abductor might exist and could help but failed to collect the local CCTV images...unbeleivable

[Carana]

It just shows again amarals limited understanding that he thought a satellite image of the abductor might exist and could help but failed to collect the local CCTV images...unbeleivable

While googling, I'd forgotten about the other thread on here (I posted the link further up and have just reread it).

It didn't make sense to me years ago, and unfortunately time hasn't improved my understanding of fuzzy logic.

We're getting off topic, though...

[Robittybob1]

The result of sample 3A was "However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid."

Does anyone know how many components were confirmed?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

The full result is "An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid."

but on this other  site I get a different report "The Forensic Science Service® / Lowe report"  http://themaddiecasefiles.com/the-forensic-science-service-lowe-report-t10.html

Which although say much the same has different wording.

"286A/2007-CRL 3A& B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete and weak DNA result comprising only some unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from the cellular material present in the dry swab (3A). The attempt to obtain a result from any cellular material that may have been in the same area and present in the wet swab (3B) was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN tests.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area."

I wonder where that report is in the alphabetical listing?  [I found it within the the Lowe report.]

"286A/2007-CRL 3A& B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete and weak DNA result comprising only some unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from the cellular material present in the dry swab (3A). The attempt to obtain a result from any cellular material that may have been in the same area and present in the wet swab (3B) was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN tests.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area."

These two appear to be word for word the same.

If as Carana  reports that there 5 alleles found what happens if we put that number in the report.  Does that change the report.

"An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all 5 of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the 5 corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid."

5 alleles is to few to specific identify a person but if it was a mixed sample what are the chances that only the 5 alleles  that are associated with MBM are the ones that are confirmed?

But then what would it mean if Madeleine's DNA was found in the apartment any way?

[Carana]

If as Carana  reports that there 5 alleles found what happens if we put that number in the report.  Does that change the report.

"An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all 5 of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the 5 corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid."

5 alleles is to few to specific identify a person but if it was a mixed sample what are the chances that only the 5 alleles  that are associated with MBM are the ones that are confirmed?

But then what would it mean if Madeleine's DNA was found in the apartment any way?

I cited the only reference that I could find: a GA interview.

I haven't found any corroboration for this in the files. That said, he was clearly less interested in the DNA results from the apartment than his suspicions regarding the car.

If there had been a potentially noteworthy amount of alleles (which still wouldn't necessarily mean anything nefarious) had been found behind the sofa... does anyone seriously think that he would have downplayed that, particularly as that was his "theory"?

[Robittybob1]

I cited the only reference that I could find: a GA interview.

I haven't found any corroboration for this in the files. That said, he was clearly less interested in the DNA results from the apartment than his suspicions regarding the car.

If there had been a potentially noteworthy amount of alleles (which still wouldn't necessarily mean anything nefarious) had been found behind the sofa... does anyone seriously think that he would have downplayed that, particularly as that was his "theory"?

Did all of the Tapas 9 provide reference DNA samples?

[Carana]

Did all of the Tapas 9 provide reference DNA samples?

Yes, AFAIK. The agreement forms are in the files.

[Robittybob1]

Yes, AFAIK. The agreement forms are in the files.

Thanks.  I was going to say something more detailed but  I chickened out.  So are they saying the other identified alleles could not be matched to anyone else?

[Carana]

Thanks.  I was going to say something more detailed but  I chickened out.  So are they saying the other identified alleles could not be matched to anyone else?

I'd take the following wording in the email, personally, as I believe there is a translation glitch in the longer version, which doesn't alter the meaning but makes it more difficult to understand (IMO):

An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid."


Even that wording is a bit hazy. I understand it to mean that the sample had little in it, but they found a few alleles. The few that were confirmed matched with alleles in her profile. Others couldn't be confirmed, and didn't match hers anyway.

[Robittybob1]

I'd take the following wording in the email, personally, as I believe there is a translation glitch in the longer version, which doesn't alter the meaning but makes it more difficult to understand (IMO):

An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid."


Even that wording is a bit hazy. I understand it to mean that the sample had little in it, but they found a few alleles. The few that were confirmed matched with alleles in her profile. Others couldn't be confirmed, and didn't match hers anyway.

Here's me thinking they would have had to find other alleles in order to determine there was "more than one person".

[Carana]

Here's me thinking they would have had to find other alleles in order to determine there was "more than one person".

They did, but seemingly they just popped up but couldn't be confirmed (I presume by repeating the test, or simply because the peak "signal" was deemed insignificant and could have been background "noise".). Don't know, Rob, sorry.

Don't, however, confuse that 3A swab with the car finding - that's different.

In that one, there were apparently definitely 3 contributors and possibly up to 5.

[Eleanor]

All people share certain aspects of DNA.

[Carana]

All people share certain aspects of DNA.

Indeed, Eleanor.

For ages, the media didn't know what they were talking about and people following the case assumed that an allele (component) was a unique identifying factor of a specific individual.

It's not.

If that were the case, anyone betting on a lottery jackpot with 20 numbers (+ the sex allele), just because they had ticked one or two of the winning numbers, should all expect to be multi-millionaires.

[barrier]

Any one know why the samples were sent to England for analysis rather than in Portugal itself?

[jassi]

I suspect the UK was promoted as being technically more advanced.

[barrier]

I suspect the UK was promoted as being technically more advanced.

Now why would that be promoted?