Author Topic: What are the discrepancies between the McCann's and the friend's statements?  (Read 30659 times)

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stephen25000

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Nine people witnessing the same event will see things differently and will report it differently.  If all nine are word perfect in describing the event exactly the same as each other that would be evidence there may have been collusion.

Discrepancies are indications all nine are relating their own account and describe versions of the event as it appeared independently to them as individuals.

So that would also apply to those parties who believed they 'observed' people watching the apartment.

Easy to get things wrong and misinterpret.  8)-)))

Let's not forget either all those sightings of small blonde girls claiming they were Madeleine.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 06:25:56 PM by stephen25000 »

Offline Robittybob1

Pact of silence?
How do I insert an image?
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Offline Brietta

So that would also apply to those parties who believed they 'observed' people watching the apartment.

Easy to get things wrong and misinterpret.  8)-)))

Let's not forget either all those sightings of small blonde girls claiming they were Madeleine.

Do you really think eye witness testimony is an irrelevance?  I don't; please allow me to explain my post to clarify any misunderstanding you may have about that.

I said, "Nine people witnessing the same event will see things differently and will report it differently.  If all nine are word perfect in describing the event exactly the same as each other that would be evidence there may have been collusion.
Discrepancies are indications all nine are relating their own account and describe versions of the event as it appeared independently to them as individuals."


In other words, people see things differently; depending on how significant things may seem to them at the time; where they were in relation to what they witnessed and what may have attracted their attention; how good their vision was ~ were they wearing their glasses? was there something obstructing what they could see?; some may have been close enough to overhear conversation, some not; the time may have been noted by one who had just glanced at a watch while others could only guesstimate ... and so on and so on ...

Everyone has different cognitive skills and different communication skills and each will relate an experience differently from each other.  Unless as I have said they were coached or rehearsed (collusion).

Among the skills expected of investigators are collating eyewitness accounts and getting the full picture from the sum of the parts and taking it on from there.
Did the Policia Judiciaria do that with the different eye witness accounts in the vicinity of apartment 5 of men who attracted their attention ... were these men traced and interviewed and eliminated? ...or were they considered an irrelevance as you seem to think they are, because the coordinator had a theory in which they didn't feature?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

ferryman

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Pact of silence?
How do I insert an image?

Pact of silence was David Payne explaining (way back) that they couldn't comment on the (first) investigation because of Portuguese secrecy laws.

Offline Robittybob1

Pact of silence was David Payne explaining (way back) that they couldn't comment on the (first) investigation because of Portuguese secrecy laws.
You might be right.
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Offline Robittybob1

I found one analysis by a commentator with a discrepancy in one of the Tapas 7 statements and from memory I think it is correct.
"Mat revokes his first statement: when he entered Madeleine’s room, the door was open and there was more light, as if the shutters had been raised. Here starts to develop the theory that there was already someone inside the apartment. Which reinforces Jane Tanner’s version (that she saw a man carrying a child)." https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.nz/2008/03/madeleine-case-pact-of-silence.html
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Offline Robittybob1

We have already handled this discrepancy: "Only Jane saw the man carrying a child

But there is a witness whose deposition contradicts this theory. Jeremy Wilkins – a TV producer who had met Maddie’s father during their holidays and used to play tennis with him – was walking his eight months old son at that time. He met Gerry, who went out through the apartment’s back door after having checked on the children, and the two man exchanged a brief conversation. At that time, if one is to believe the first accounts, Jane would have left Tapas in the direction of the apartment’s main entrance, and would have crossed paths with both of them. “It was a very narrow road and I think it would have been almost impossible to walk by without me taking notice”, Jeremy says, pointing out the fact that he saw no man carrying a child, as Jane states.

But Jane continues to guarantee that, at the top of the street, she saw a man with a child in his arms."
https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.nz/2008/03/madeleine-case-pact-of-silence.html

But there is a witness whose deposition contradicts this theory. - True

 Jeremy Wilkins – a TV producer who had met Maddie’s father during their holidays and used to play tennis with him - True
 – was walking his eight months old son at that time. - Unverified
He met Gerry, who went out through the apartment’s back door after having checked on the children, and the two man exchanged a brief conversation. - Debatable for Jez is reported as saying this conversation lasted 15 minutes.

At that time, if one is to believe the first accounts, Jane would have left Tapas in the direction of the apartment’s main entrance, and would have crossed paths with both of them. “It was a very narrow road and I think it would have been almost impossible to walk by without me taking notice”,.... How come?

"Jeremy says, pointing out the fact that he saw no man carrying a child, as Jane states". - Was it a woman instead?
For Jane just said originally "an individual" without defining the gender.

"But Jane continues to guarantee that, at the top of the street, she saw a man with a child in his arms." - Originally an individual with a child in his/her arms.


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Offline Robittybob1

That word inconsistencies gets used a lot but when I ask what are the inconsistencies they are few and far between.
Inconsistencies or discrepancies all much the same.
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Offline Brietta

@Robitty
You linked to this person on a board from elsewhere ...

Update: Edit - Meda M - I am on my 26th account and have been suspended by YA at home and am having to use a proxy server to post questions.

Do you think I care that you report me? If it wasnt you, it would be one of the other rabid Pro McCann supporters.


I have deleted it.

Don't you think it would have been rather crowded if as claimed he had been standing in the exact same spot at the exact same time ... don't you think he might have been noticed?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

@Robitty
You linked to this person on a board from elsewhere ...

Update: Edit - Meda M - I am on my 26th account and have been suspended by YA at home and am having to use a proxy server to post questions.

Do you think I care that you report me? If it wasnt you, it would be one of the other rabid Pro McCann supporters.


I have deleted it.

Don't you think it would have been rather crowded if as claimed he had been standing in the exact same spot at the exact same time ... don't you think he might have been noticed?
I think they were the words I thought most unusual, "exact same spot".   
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Offline Robittybob1

This written description of what happened is rather interesting  for me at least. "The Mark Warner nannies brought the children to the Tapas restaurant to have tea at the end of each day." https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

This might explain why on the Thursday Gerry was at the Tapas with the kids when Kate arrived so is the sign out of the children done at the Tapas rather than at the kids club.

Does anyone object to this description of events that: "The Mark Warner nannies brought the children to the Tapas restaurant to have tea at the end of each day"?
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Offline Robittybob1

This written description of what happened is rather interesting  for me at least. "The Mark Warner nannies brought the children to the Tapas restaurant to have tea at the end of each day." https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

This might explain why on the Thursday Gerry was at the Tapas with the kids when Kate arrived so is the sign out of the children done at the Tapas rather than at the kids club.

Does anyone object to this description of events that: "The Mark Warner nannies brought the children to the Tapas restaurant to have tea at the end of each day"?
This confirmed in Catriona Baker's rogatory statement  "Some of the children return for the afternoon session which includes accompanying them to "high tea" at around 5H in the afternoon." 
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Offline G-Unit

Tennis lessons. Dianne, Kate and Jane played every morning from @ 9.15 to 10.15. Beginning Sunday or Monday, cancelled on Wednesday due to rain. But no-one except Dianne mentions Dianne playing. Jane thought Rachael played every morning, but she didn't, she and her husband had a lesson from 11-12 am. Everyone except Jane remembers being rained off on Wednesday, Jane doesn't mention that at all.

Was Dianne invisible? Why did Jane think she played with Rachael every morning? Why didn't Jane remember being rained off?

I thought it’d be quite a good idea to have some tennis lessons, which err I put my name down for and Kate and Jane.....we’d start at quarter past nine so that was when tennis lesson started and it was for an hour I think, the tennis lesson......So it might have been Sunday to Thursday.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

4078    “Okay, you mentioned when you were talking about your tennis lessons that Kate signed up for it as well.”
Reply    “Yeah.”
4078    Did anybody else from the group go with you?”
Reply    “Rachael, and Rachael as well.”
4078    “So would it have been the three of you every morning on your own or were there other people around?”
Reply    “No there was other people with us, I think there was six of us.”
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

we didn't have any group lessons Matt and I, we had a private lesson I think,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

I think we just had sort of three, sort of two or three, erm, proper tennis lessons'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Monday 30th April 2007.......I recall Jane, Kate and Gerry playing tennis.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
 
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Offline Benice

Tennis lessons. Dianne, Kate and Jane played every morning from @ 9.15 to 10.15. Beginning Sunday or Monday, cancelled on Wednesday due to rain. But no-one except Dianne mentions Dianne playing. Jane thought Rachael played every morning, but she didn't, she and her husband had a lesson from 11-12 am. Everyone except Jane remembers being rained off on Wednesday, Jane doesn't mention that at all.

Was Dianne invisible? Why did Jane think she played with Rachael every morning? Why didn't Jane remember being rained off?

I thought it’d be quite a good idea to have some tennis lessons, which err I put my name down for and Kate and Jane.....we’d start at quarter past nine so that was when tennis lesson started and it was for an hour I think, the tennis lesson......So it might have been Sunday to Thursday.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

4078    “Okay, you mentioned when you were talking about your tennis lessons that Kate signed up for it as well.”
Reply    “Yeah.”
4078    Did anybody else from the group go with you?”
Reply    “Rachael, and Rachael as well.”
4078    “So would it have been the three of you every morning on your own or were there other people around?”
Reply    “No there was other people with us, I think there was six of us.”
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm


we didn't have any group lessons Matt and I, we had a private lesson I think,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

I think we just had sort of three, sort of two or three, erm, proper tennis lessons'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Monday 30th April 2007.......I recall Jane, Kate and Gerry playing tennis.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

Are these supposed to be serious discrepancies ?    It's obvious they are all struggling to remember - minute by minute - details of stuff which wasn't remotely important at the time.   What one person may remember - another person may have forgotten.    Nothing odd about that at all IMO.

Jeez

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Robittybob1

Finally found a study with what look like genuine discrepancies http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?69120-Contradictions

I'll have to go through  them and comment.
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