Author Topic: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.  (Read 52823 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #450 on: April 22, 2017, 08:12:34 AM »
After 30 pages the facts remain the same
We don't know what road Kate was on and we don't know if she read the speedo
And none of it really matters

Offline Benice

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #451 on: April 22, 2017, 09:42:27 AM »
I might be wrong but wasn't the whole point of the thread to highlight Kate's disgust at being driven at breakneck speed back to a Portimao cop shop because someone mistook another child in a CCTV photo for Maddie?

Was her disgust targeted at the police driver or the investigator who wrongly thought the girl was Maddie?

Yes you are wrong Angelo - the word she used was ''devastated'' not 'disgusted'. 

I think it was unfortunate that the PJ did not make it clear that they were being asked to return to look at a picture of a child who might be Madeleine - especially as there doesn't appear to be any reason why they should not have been told.

Even if it was unintentional - it was an example of gross insensitivity IMO -  due in part to the lack of any 'official procedure' being in place at the time for the PJ to follow and ( I presume) no officers with specific training in this area to advise them.        I sincerely hope that has changed for the better over the last 10 years. 

 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #452 on: April 22, 2017, 12:16:07 PM »
Yes you are wrong Angelo - the word she used was ''devastated'' not 'disgusted'. 

I think it was unfortunate that the PJ did not make it clear that they were being asked to return to look at a picture of a child who might be Madeleine - especially as there doesn't appear to be any reason why they should not have been told.

Even if it was unintentional - it was an example of gross insensitivity IMO -  due in part to the lack of any 'official procedure' being in place at the time for the PJ to follow and ( I presume) no officers with specific training in this area to advise them.        I sincerely hope that has changed for the better over the last 10 years. 

 
It is certainly used as a further example to portray the PJ in a negative light, one which did not act in a manner deemed fit by Kate.  The focus of this passage yet again seems to be Kate and Gerry suffering, not Madeleine.

From the totality of the supporter comments there is still a distinct aroma of things would have been different if it had happened in the UK, IMO.

The reality of the event is simple. There are two sources for 200kph/125mph.  These speeds, or even 120kph, on the N125 are fatal.  These speeds, on the A22 are not life threatening.

On the 4th May, to expect Kate to be emotionally stable is unrealistic.  To expect Kate to interested in an opportunity to progress the case is realistic.  Yet it got portrayed as PJ bashing, just one of many such examples in her book.

Therein lies the point.  Supporters are doing the 'poor Kate' bit, and asking that others accept that which Kate wrote as entirely true.  Evaluation of the facts shows that something in Kate's account has to give way.  Anyone swallowing it whole is less than fully interested in the truth.

Kate's book has numerous instances where Kate's claims do not match reality.  I have yet to find one which is not portrayed as favourable to Kate.  And that is why I consider the book has a large slab of McCann PR in it, and should be treated accordingly.

Anything less critical is doing Madeleine no favours.  IMO
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #453 on: April 22, 2017, 12:33:26 PM »
It is certainly used as a further example to portray the PJ in a negative light, one which did not act in a manner deemed fit by Kate.  The focus of this passage yet again seems to be Kate and Gerry suffering, not Madeleine.

From the totality of the supporter comments there is still a distinct aroma of things would have been different if it had happened in the UK, IMO.

The reality of the event is simple. There are two sources for 200kph/125mph.  These speeds, or even 120kph, on the N125 are fatal.  These speeds, on the A22 are not life threatening.

On the 4th May, to expect Kate to be emotionally stable is unrealistic.  To expect Kate to interested in an opportunity to progress the case is realistic.  Yet it got portrayed as PJ bashing, just one of many such examples in her book.

Therein lies the point.  Supporters are doing the 'poor Kate' bit, and asking that others accept that which Kate wrote as entirely true.  Evaluation of the facts shows that something in Kate's account has to give way.  Anyone swallowing it whole is less than fully interested in the truth.

Kate's book has numerous instances where Kate's claims do not match reality.  I have yet to find one which is not portrayed as favourable to Kate.  And that is why I consider the book has a large slab of McCann PR in it, and should be treated accordingly.

Anything less critical is doing Madeleine no favours.  IMO

Kate has every right to portray the pj in a bad light because of here experience with them. I think things would have been very different in the UK and I think the pj handled the case poorly. You claim there are numerous instances in the book where kate's claims dont match reality...thats your opinion and it may well be you that is wrong. What you are doing is kate bashing...but you seem to think that is acceptable. Again you are claiming the mccanns put their own feelings ahead of Maddies which is totally ridiculous and just another imginary stick with which to beat them with...something you constantly do



Offline misty

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #454 on: April 22, 2017, 12:43:34 PM »
It is certainly used as a further example to portray the PJ in a negative light, one which did not act in a manner deemed fit by Kate.  The focus of this passage yet again seems to be Kate and Gerry suffering, not Madeleine.

From the totality of the supporter comments there is still a distinct aroma of things would have been different if it had happened in the UK, IMO.

The reality of the event is simple. There are two sources for 200kph/125mph.  These speeds, or even 120kph, on the N125 are fatal.  These speeds, on the A22 are not life threatening.

On the 4th May, to expect Kate to be emotionally stable is unrealistic.  To expect Kate to interested in an opportunity to progress the case is realistic.  Yet it got portrayed as PJ bashing, just one of many such examples in her book.

Therein lies the point.  Supporters are doing the 'poor Kate' bit, and asking that others accept that which Kate wrote as entirely true.  Evaluation of the facts shows that something in Kate's account has to give way.  Anyone swallowing it whole is less than fully interested in the truth.

Kate's book has numerous instances where Kate's claims do not match reality.  I have yet to find one which is not portrayed as favourable to Kate.  And that is why I consider the book has a large slab of McCann PR in it, and should be treated accordingly.

Anything less critical is doing Madeleine no favours.  IMO

I think the criticism of the PJ was fully justified on this occasion. Kate & Gerry had spent several hours at the police station yet the PJ "forgot" to show them the CCTV footage, which potentially showed Madeleine, they had in their possession. How many favours would that have done Madeleine had the child in the CCTV been her?
I can only imagine the sense of deflation the McCanns felt after a situation which the PJ portrayed as being urgent enough to warrant a high-speed return to the station turned out to be a false alarm - yet it wasn't deemed urgent 15mins prior when the McCanns left Portimao.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #455 on: April 22, 2017, 12:44:38 PM »
No, a statement of fact.

others disagree it was the abductor who is to blame as we have dicussed before

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #456 on: April 22, 2017, 12:48:45 PM »
There is no denying the McCann's actions initiated events.

What happened afterwards remains undetermined.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #457 on: April 22, 2017, 12:53:35 PM »
There is no denying the McCann's actions initiated events.

What happened afterwards remains undetermined.
there is denying it.....

Offline slartibartfast

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #458 on: April 22, 2017, 01:11:58 PM »
Kate has every right to portray the pj in a bad light because of here experience with them. I think things would have been very different in the UK and I think the pj handled the case poorly. You claim there are numerous instances in the book where kate's claims dont match reality...thats your opinion and it may well be you that is wrong. What you are doing is kate bashing...but you seem to think that is acceptable. Again you are claiming the mccanns put their own feelings ahead of Maddies which is totally ridiculous and just another imginary stick with which to beat them with...something you constantly do

A very circular argument. You assume Kate's bad experience based on her statements/book which you then use to justify her book/statements.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #459 on: April 22, 2017, 01:17:05 PM »
A very circular argument. You assume Kate's bad experience based on her statements/book which you then use to justify her book/statements.

not at all....I look at all we have heard from portugal and can see that the pj carried out a poor investigation.....thats why I think Kates comments are justified

Offline slartibartfast

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #460 on: April 22, 2017, 01:23:35 PM »
not at all....I look at all we have heard from portugal and can see that the pj carried out a poor investigation.....thats why I think Kates comments are justified

...you said her(e) experience?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #461 on: April 22, 2017, 01:27:40 PM »
...you said her(e) experience?

That's right
Kate had a bad experience with the pj
Not just that one incident
And her opinion is backed up by what we heard of the pj


Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #462 on: April 22, 2017, 01:53:10 PM »
I think the criticism of the PJ was fully justified on this occasion. Kate & Gerry had spent several hours at the police station yet the PJ "forgot" to show them the CCTV footage, which potentially showed Madeleine, they had in their possession. How many favours would that have done Madeleine had the child in the CCTV been her?
I can only imagine the sense of deflation the McCanns felt after a situation which the PJ portrayed as being urgent enough to warrant a high-speed return to the station turned out to be a false alarm - yet it wasn't deemed urgent 15mins prior when the McCanns left Portimao.
If you have evidence that the PJ had the CCTV image while the McCanns were at the station, please cite it, because I cannot remember seeing any.

If you have any evidence that the PJ officer in possession of the CCTV image was informed the McCanns were soon to depart, please cite it, because to date, I cannot remember seeing any.

In the absence of such evidence we are firmly in the speculation zone.
What's up, old man?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #463 on: April 22, 2017, 01:55:47 PM »
That's right
Kate had a bad experience with the pj
Not just that one incident
And her opinion is backed up by what we heard of the pj

So where did you hear of Kate's experience?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The high speed return to Portimão police station incident.
« Reply #464 on: April 22, 2017, 02:03:55 PM »
So where did you hear of Kate's experience?
we have herad a lot about kates experience from several sources.mostly media and we have heard from the pj themselves ....