If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?

[G-Unit]

Returning to Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.....

At 12h30 they started lunch, the meal having lasted an hour until 13h30. After that time they made their way to the resort play area, the deponent left by the front door and the rest of the family by the rear door that, once again, he shut and locked from the inside......

After 17H30 they went to the apartment, the deponent having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. KATE and the children entered by the rear door, after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

[Robittybob1]

Returning to Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.....

At 12h30 they started lunch, the meal having lasted an hour until 13h30. After that time they made their way to the resort play area, the deponent left by the front door and the rest of the family by the rear door that, once again, he shut and locked from the inside......

After 17H30 they went to the apartment, the deponent having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. KATE and the children entered by the rear door, after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Strange that they don't agree on that. Generally when it comes to detail I'd go with the female.

[G-Unit]

Strange that they don't agree on that. Generally when it comes to detail I'd go with the female.

I think any female trying to get three small children safely up and down those steps leading to their ground floor (?) balcony three or four times a day would remember it.

The point is that we don't know how often Madeleine used each door.

[Robittybob1]

I think any female trying to get three small children safely up and down those steps leading to their ground floor (?) balcony three or four times a day would remember it.

The point is that we don't know how often Madeleine used each door.

And even if it was split one with Dad and two with Mum at times is the detail that important?  Yes it is if we want to know if Madeleine had used the front door regularly and was familiar with the route from there.  I'd say it wouldn't take a kid long to learn that little aspect.

[Robittybob1]

https://youtu.be/U7ll0VAkXag  with photo from the file.

[sadie]

https://youtu.be/U7ll0VAkXag  with photo from the file.

With all due respect, Rob, that proves nothing.

We already guessed/knew that Madeleine could reach the handle, but with her hands reaching above her head could she have exerted the force necessary to move the door?  Kate though not.

And * IF * she managed to open it,

1)  What about the shaft of light that would beam out from the room.  Surely one of the Tapas friends would have noticed it?
2)  Upon walking towards the top of the steps, Madeleine would immediately be able to see her Mum and Dad and hear them.  Why didn't she shout them?   She wasn't the quietest person, was she?   As her parents they would have been tuned in to the cries and shouts of their child; they would surely have heard her?
3)  How come she stopped to make what would have been a considerable effort, for such a little mite, to pull the patio door closed again?   Her arms were above her head remember ... and it is much harder to push/ pull with arms extended like that, cos the body weight is not behind the arms.
4)  How did she manage to get thru the child safety gate?
5)  If so, why did she stop to close it?  Most kids dont bother with things like that, especially when anxious to go somewhere, do they ?
6)  Did she climb over it and take a nasty fall on the other side?  Remember it was the height of the gate + a step height that she had to negotiate ... and then to land on a concrete step that typically is only about 9" deep with further concrete steps below.
 * IF * she did manage to climb over the gate, there would be finger prints and skin cells all over the place.  Did the PJ bother to test?
7)  Then thru the bottom gate, which may or may not be easy .... but why did she bother to close it again?  Kids just dont do these things at such a young age, do they?.


I would like to point out that we dont even KNOW if that little girl in the video was the same height as Madeleine.   According to her Mum, Madeleine was about 90 cm which is 10 cm short of the average for her age, I believe.



IMHO, I truly dont think that Madeleine could, or did, exit via that Patio door Rob.  Sorry to disappoint.

[G-Unit]

With all due respect, Rob, that proves nothing.

We already guessed/knew that Madeleine could reach the handle, but with her hands reaching above her head could she have exerted the force necessary to move the door?  Kate though not.

And * IF * she managed to open it,

1)  What about the shaft of light that would beam out from the room.  Surely one of the Tapas friends would have noticed it?
2)  Upon walking towards the top of the steps, Madeleine would immediately be able to see her Mum and Dad and hear them.  Why didn't she shout them?   She wasn't the quietest person, was she?   As her parents they would have been tuned in to the cries and shouts of their child; they would surely have heard her?
3)  How come she stopped to make what would have been a considerable effort, for such a little mite, to pull the patio door closed again?   Her arms were above her head remember ... and it is much harder to push/ pull with arms extended like that, cos the body weight is not behind the arms.
4)  How did she manage to get thru the child safety gate?
5)  If so, why did she stop to close it?  Most kids dont bother with things like that, especially when anxious to go somewhere, do they ?
6)  Did she climb over it and take a nasty fall on the other side?  Remember it was the height of the gate + a step height that she had to negotiate ... and then to land on a concrete step that typically is only about 9" deep with further concrete steps below.
 * IF * she did manage to climb over the gate, there would be finger prints and skin cells all over the place.  Did the PJ bother to test?
7)  Then thru the bottom gate, which may or may not be easy .... but why did she bother to close it again?  Kids just dont do these things at such a young age, do they?.


I would like to point out that we dont even KNOW if that little girl in the video was the same height as Madeleine.   According to her Mum, Madeleine was about 90 cm which is 10 cm short of the average for her age, I believe.



IMHO, I truly dont think that Madeleine could, or did, exit via that Patio door Rob.  Sorry to disappoint.

Just a couple of points;

There was no need to reach up to the handle, the door wasn't fully closed at the right hand side.
As the curtains were closed no light would have shone out if the door was slid open.

[sadie]

Just a couple of points;

There was no need to reach up to the handle, the door wasn't fully closed at the right hand side.
As the curtains were closed no light would have shone out if the door was slid open.

Two points

1)  Where were Madeleines finger prints if she had her hand around the frame of the window?   Did the PJ bother to take finger prints from the patio door?

2)  The curtains would have been opened, or moved, * IF * Madeleine tried to slide open that door.  Even had it been only a small amount, a shaft of light would have suddenly shone out lighting the railings IMO.  why didn't anyone notice the sudden light change?

[G-Unit]

Two points

1)  Where were Madeleines finger prints if she had her hand around the frame of the window?   Did the PJ bother to take finger prints from the patio door?

2)  The curtains would have been opened, or moved, * IF * Madeleine tried to slide open that door.  Even had it been only a small amount, a shaft of light would have suddenly shone out lighting the railings IMO.  why didn't anyone notice the sudden light change?

It seems no-one's prints were on that door. Even if there had been that doesn't mean they were left that night.

[sadie]

It seems no-one's prints were on that door. Even if there had been that doesn't mean they were left that night. No-one had their attention on the McCann's apartment, particularly those staying there.

IYO

So no-ones prints on the door, yet all those people came in?   However I guess most would use the handle.

By bet is that either the PJ didn't bother to finger print the lower part of the door, or more likely Madeleine never opened it.

OMO

[G-Unit]

IYO

So no-ones prints on the door, yet all those people came in?   However I guess most would use the handle.

By bet is that either the PJ didn't bother to finger print the lower part of the door, or more likely Madeleine never opened it.

OMO

Wasn't the handle on the inside?

[Miss Taken Identity]

It seems no-one's prints were on that door. Even if there had been that doesn't mean they were left that night.

It could also mean they were cleaned by.....

[sadie]

Wasn't the handle on the inside?

Yep on the patio doors

however, anyone who came in, had to go out again.

Where are their prints?    or didn't they bother to check for them?

[G-Unit]

Yep on the patio doors

however, anyone who came in, had to go out again.

Where are their prints?    or didn't they bother to check for them?

My opinion is that they would have closed it behind them on entry by pushing it back to an almost closed position using the door frame. On exit they just put their hand in the gap and pushed it open again. No need to use the handle.

[G-Unit]

One thing you can be sure of where children are concerned is that they can always surprise you. I watched a 999 documentary last night. The police were called by a lady who had found a boy of 4 wandering the streets in his pyjamas with no shoes on. It was a cold night so she put him in her car and called the police.

The policeman asked him where he lived. 'At home' was the reply. He did manage to direct them to his house; up the road, round the corner and across another road. His parents were in, watching TV and hadn't missed him. The child had come downstairs, opened the front door, closed it behind him and off he went.

They were advised to find a way to secure the door so it couldn't happen again. Social services were informed what had happened. Had the parents been out, Social services would have been called out to take the boy and care for him .