The use of the term 'abductor' should be qualified by caveat.

[ferryman]

Off topic but this is what Kate reveals in her book, Madeleine:


On  the  drive  home  from  the  police  station  it  had become  clear  to  Gerry  that  Carlos  believed  charges were  likely  and  that  we  might  have  to  stay  in Portugal.  The  preparation  of  a  case  like  this  could take  years.  If  the  charge  was  murder,  rather  than  the lesser  crime  of  hiding  a  body,  we  might  even  be remanded  in  custody  for  all  that  time.  Given  the  lack of  evidence,  it  was  impossible  to  understand  how such  charges  could  be  brought,  but  if  you’d  told  us  a few  weeks  earlier  that  we  were  going  to  be  declared arguidos  we  wouldn’t  have  believed  that,  either.  The prospect  of  being  separated  from  Sean  and  Amelie, holed  up  in  jail  unable  to  prepare  our  defence properly,  was  terrifying.  Gerry  was  seriously considering  sneaking  us  into  a  car  and  driving  us  all across  the  border  to  Spain.  It  would  have  been crazy.  The  whole  world  would  have  thought  we  were guilty,  and  maybe  that  was  what  the  police  were hoping  we’d  do. Most  people  find  it  hard  to  comprehend  how innocent  people  can  confess  to  crimes  they  haven’t committed.  Gerry  and  I  don’t.  Not  now.  The monumental  psychological  duress  we  were  under can  easily  lead  to  bad,  irrational  decision-making. Thankfuly,  we  resisted  the  urge  to  flee.  When  we  left Portugal,  it  would  be  with  the  blessing  of  the  PJ  and our  heads  held  high.

There is no question that Amaral (whether he realised it or not) headed up a murder enquiry.

Several references in the reports of Harrison make that clear, not least his offer to consider other possibilities or scenarios (sic) on request.

[ShiningInLuz]

Your opinion leaves me speechless.

You said the Smiths could take part in a reconstitution because the were not guilty of anything.

The T9 could have taken part in a reconstitution.  It didn't happen.

[John]

One issue with threads that are taken from another is that the OP can look clumsy without its context.

I believe the OP is simply stating the obvious i.e. abduction has not been proved, and therefore is one allegation or possibility.

Here is another possibility.  If Matthew Oldfield is involved, each piece of information that we have can be explained.

And another.  If Kate McCann is involved, each piece of information can be explained.

And another.  If Gerry McCann is involved, each piece of information can be explained.

And another.  If Madeleine woke and wandered, each piece of information can be explained.

I happen to think abduction is the most probable explanation, and the 3 May 2017 Panorama special has a chunk that goes down one potential route.  I don't think they got an abductor, but they might have made some progress.

With all options on the table, an abductor is alleged but far from proven.

I have some sympathy with those points but for me it is all about the evidence and that appears to point to Madeleine being out on the street.  What happened next is anyone's guess?

Was she lifted by some opportunist paedophile or was she hit by an over-the-limit driver who panicked and drove off with her?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Off topic but this is what Kate reveals in her book, Madeleine:


On  the  drive  home  from  the  police  station  it  had become  clear  to  Gerry  that  Carlos  believed  charges were  likely  and  that  we  might  have  to  stay  in Portugal.  The  preparation  of  a  case  like  this  could take  years.  If  the  charge  was  murder,  rather  than  the lesser  crime  of  hiding  a  body,  we  might  even  be remanded  in  custody  for  all  that  time.  Given  the  lack of  evidence,  it  was  impossible  to  understand  how such  charges  could  be  brought,  but  if  you’d  told  us  a few  weeks  earlier  that  we  were  going  to  be  declared arguidos  we  wouldn’t  have  believed  that,  either.  The prospect  of  being  separated  from  Sean  and  Amelie, holed  up  in  jail  unable  to  prepare  our  defence properly,  was  terrifying.  Gerry  was  seriously considering  sneaking  us  into  a  car  and  driving  us  all across  the  border  to  Spain.  It  would  have  been crazy.  The  whole  world  would  have  thought  we  were guilty,  and  maybe  that  was  what  the  police  were hoping  we’d  do. Most  people  find  it  hard  to  comprehend  how innocent  people  can  confess  to  crimes  they  haven’t committed.  Gerry  and  I  don’t.  Not  now.  The monumental  psychological  duress  we  were  under can  easily  lead  to  bad,  irrational  decision-making. Thankfuly,  we  resisted  the  urge  to  flee.  When  we  left Portugal,  it  would  be  with  the  blessing  of  the  PJ  and our  heads  held  high.

Yes, walking away free from  your daughters plight and  from justice... head held high indeed! Well done Kate!

[John]

Yes, walking away free from  your daughters plight and  from justice... head held high indeed! Well done Kate!

I wouldn't be surprised if that was exactly what the police were hoping for, put enough pressure on the suspects and they will bolt.  Thereafter all credibility would have flown with them and their arrest and extradition which would follow.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I have some sympathy with those points but for me it is all about the evidence and that appears to point to Madeleine being out on the street.  What happened next is anyone's guess?

Was she lifted by some opportunist paedophile or was she hit by an over-the-limit driver who panicked and drove off with her?

Or as suggested, helped by a childless couple who are looking after her? Hmmm highly unlikely imo. I agree with those other two suggestions. either of them could be true.

[Mr Gray]

I have some sympathy with those points but for me it is all about the evidence and that appears to point to Madeleine being out on the street.  What happened next is anyone's guess?

Was she lifted by some opportunist paedophile or was she hit by an over-the-limit driver who panicked and drove off with her?

 By evidence I presume you mean the tracker dogs
So one dog says Maddie died in the apartment the other that she left the apartment
Which one was wrong or were they both wrong

[Alice Purjorick]

Please concentrate on the thread topic future off topic posts are going to be consigned to the cutting room floor.
Thank you

Your argument was that as no one was agreeing with Sr Amaral, the implication being he must be considered to be wrong as no no one was agreeing with him.
I put forward a counter argument with two well known cases from history.
Heinous crime? well what Galilieo Galilei proposed certainly was in his time. It only took 350 years for The Catholic Church to cotton on and forgive him.
End of history lesson; delete if you wish but I have demonstrated your argument did not hold water.

[John]

By evidence I presume you mean the tracker dogs
So one dog says Maddie died in the apartment the other that she left the apartment
Which one was wrong or were they both wrong

The GNR dogs were tracking specifically Madeleine as they were trained to do hours after she disappeared whereas the cadaver dog was deployed weeks later and could have alerted to numerous substances.  I know which two my money is on.

[Alfie]

I don't have time to read numerous pages from a book, especially not when the writing is so small I need a magnifying glass to read it, even after clicking on the thumbnail.  A specific page reference or copy and paste of the passage which proves that sightings were invented by agents in the pay of the McCanns please.  Better still approve my thread on the subject and we can discuss it there.

[John]

I don't have time to read numerous pages from a book, especially not when the writing is so small I need a magnifying glass to read it, even after clicking on the thumbnail.  A specific page reference or copy and paste of the passage which proves that sightings were invented by agents in the pay of the McCanns please.  Better still approve my thread on the subject and we can discuss it there.

You asked for the cite, it was provided for you and is perfectly legible. There can be little doubt that Metodo 3 set out to benefit financially and fradulently from the arrangement they had entered into with millionaire Brian Kennedy and the Madeleine Fund and at the expense of the real search for Madeleine.

Acccording to the Metodo 3 whistleblowers, facts were invented and fake invoices created in a sham exercise to disguise the actual number of operatives employed by the detective agency.

[stephen25000]

As a reminder.


The crime if any, is unknown, and no matter the hype, as John, Angelo and others know, that remains the case.


The McCann's remain  the last known people to have seen Madeleine.

No forensic evidence has been uncovered to show anyone else was there the night Madeleine disappeared.

...and before anyone states it again, the hairs and the unidentifiable fingerprints exist, but it doesn't mean they were made/left on that night.

As was pointed out last night, and elsewhere, there are contradictions on what SY have said

The proposal that everyone at SY follows the abduction scenario, needs to be cited. 1 opinion counts for nothing.


PS. IMHO, it is eminently obvious that SY were TOLD to examine abduction and nothing else. So if that
 is the case, who gave them that instruction...........

[stephen25000]

AFAICS, there is no evidence of abduction, which can't be explained by other scenarios.

The sheer lack of forensic corroboration of that, is of course rather marked.

[Robittybob1]

AFAICS, there is no evidence of abduction, which can't be explained by other scenarios.

The sheer lack of forensic corroboration of that, is of course rather marked.

Are you of the mindset that it will never be solved.  Aren't the thoughts that the family and friends had nothing to do with the abduction a state of the case being partially solved?

[Eleanor]

Topic, Please, on this fine Sunday morning.