The use of the term 'abductor' should be qualified by caveat.

[stephen25000]

The McCanns were not interviewed Under Caution.  There is a difference.

Rowley said they weren't investigated.

[barrier]

If this is the case, then do you believe that in the course of all the investigation and inquiries which have taken place any evidence which would implicate Kate and Gerry would  be ignored or dismissed.

That's not for me to say,OG don't give a running commentary I  only comment on what is known.

[stephen25000]

When did they investigate the McCann's ?

Since he said they didn't, they accepted the shelving report, which of course came up in the Supreme Court Judgement.

Have you forgotten already ?

No need to be rude.
No where has  Rowley  used those words.
You should have added  in my opinion there has not been a full and fair review.

I wasn't being rude Erngath.

I have read through Rowley's statement.

I refer to what Redwood said at the start of the review/investigation.

A full and open investigation.

However, this has already been gone through several times.

The remit was limited and SY were clearly told, IMHO of course, not to investigate the McCann's or their associates.

[stephen25000]

No need to be rude.
No where has  Rowley  used those words.
You should have added  in my opinion there has not been a full and fair review.

I wasn't being rude.

Redwood promised a full and open review of the case.

That never happened, since the McCann's and their associates have not been investigated by SY.

Rowley referred to the shelving of the case, and that was that.

I wonder if he read the original shelving report himself, or the Supreme Court Judgment.

[G-Unit]

Mark Rowley also said that the investigation into the McCann's was done by the Portuguese and that it was done and dusted that they didn't want rumours going around that they were investigating the McCann's.   THEN he went on to say the McCann's were parents of a missing child,   however Madeleine left the apartment she was abducted.   So what do you think he means?    Parents of a missing child,  seems to say that she is still missing that the McCann's have done nothing.    The options could mean that they don't know where she is or whether she is dead or alive,   not that the option of the McCann's being involved.

Anyway as to the abductor argument,  what is wrong with the 'In my opinion'   quote as it is what we have been doing for a long time.

The problem with Rowley's opinion lies in what it's based on.

Did the first investigation fully investigate parental involvement and find nothing? He says yes, others disagree.

Does the fact that Madeleine was too young to go off and start a new life mean she must have been abducted? Not really.

If Rowley wants to convince he needs more than that.

If people had been clear that abduction was an opinion and not a fact this thread wouldn't exist.

[Eleanor]

Oh My, what a mess I made of that.  Stephen appears to have done a better job.

[Alice Purjorick]

I will start this in the manner of John Pilger: “This is just my opinion”.

Claudia Lawrence, Case A and Madeleine McCann, Case B, both mentioned within this thread.
Similarities  and differences.
Case A: An attractive looking white female adult disappeared under suspicious circumstances yet to be determined. The police carried out an investigation, suspects were questioned under caution resulting in the CPS being of the opinion there was insufficient evidence to bring a charge.
The investigation was eventually wound down and shelved waiting to be revived should compelling evidence of a lead turn up. The case is listed as a disappearance but the police believe it to be murder.
We are asked in this instance to believe the police are correct.
Case B: A photogenic  white female child disappeared under suspicious circumstances yet to be determined. The police carried out an investigation, suspects were questioned under caution resulting in the appropriate prosecuting authority being of the opinion there was insufficient evidence to bring a charge. The case was archived waiting to be revived should compelling evidence of a lead turn up.
The case is listed as a disappearance but the police believe there to have been parental involvement.
We are asked in this instance to believe the police are incorrect.

In Case A there has been little reported word from the police after the review linked in one of my earlier posts
In Case B there has been little reported by the police except in Tabloid Newspapers and TV Chat Shows. I include Crimewatch and Panorama in the Generic Chat Show Group as it they exist primarily as entertainment, most reporters not having Mr Pilger’s integrity to preface their reports with “this is just my opinion”.
I suppose with both cases there is an element of Missing White Woman Syndrome.

[Erngath]

I wasn't being rude.

Redwood promised a full and open review of the case.

That never happened, since the McCann's and their associates have not been investigated by SY.

Rowley referred to the shelving of the case, and that was that.

I wonder if he read the original shelving report himself, or the Supreme Court Judgment.

You do not know if they have been investigated or not.
You do not know what evidence has been uncovered.
So you should add that in your opinion it has not been "a fair and full" investigation/review

[carlymichelle]

The problem with Rowley's opinion lies in what it's based on.

Did the first investigation fully investigate parental involvement and find nothing? He says yes, others disagree.

Does the fact that Madeleine was too young to go off and start a new life mean she must have been abducted? Not really.

If Rowley wants to convince he needs more than that.

If people had been clear that abduction was an opinion and not a fact this thread wouldn't exist.

imo it is nothing to do with us so called skeptics    supporters in the past have      said emotive  things like maddie was   taken from her bed  etc by an abductor when there is no proof it is all down to context isnt it

[Mr Gray]

The problem with Rowley's opinion lies in what it's based on.

Did the first investigation fully investigate parental involvement and find nothing? He says yes, others disagree.

Does the fact that Madeleine was too young to go off and start a new life mean she must have been abducted? Not really.

If Rowley wants to convince he needs more than that.

If people had been clear that abduction was an opinion and not a fact this thread wouldn't exist.

Its clear there are lots of reasons to rule out parental involvement

[Benice]

I am not sure.  It probably depends on the content of the comment.

I don't think "Madeleine was abducted, in my opinion" quite cuts the mustard.

But "I think Madeleine might have been abducted" probably would.

I fear that at the moment we are in danger of becoming too OTT in the 'Politically Correct' department.  IMO it is going to interfere with and stifle debate if folk are going to be spending so much more of their time pointing out rule breaks by others and having to watch every word they type themselves to make sure they haven't slipped up.

We have excellent mods and in my experience because both sides are represented -  no-one from either side is allowed to get away with downright libel or blatently posting opinion as fact.

I really appreciate this forum - I would hate to see it strangled to death by rules that are too rigorously applied.

Just my opinion -no-one is obliged to agree with it.

[Eleanor]

I fear that at the moment we are in danger of becoming too OTT in the 'Politically Correct' department.  IMO it is going to interfere with and stifle debate if folk are going to be spending so much more of their time pointing out rule breaks by others and having to watch every word they type themselves to make sure they haven't slipped up.

We have excellent mods and in my experience because both sides are represented -  no-one from either side is allowed to get away with downright libel or blatently posting opinion as fact.

I really appreciate this forum - I would hate to see it strangled to death by rules that are too rigorously applied.

Just my opinion -no-one is obliged to agree with it.

Give it a try.  It gets easier.

[Mr Gray]

I will start this in the manner of John Pilger: “This is just my opinion”.

Claudia Lawrence, Case A and Madeleine McCann, Case B, both mentioned within this thread.
Similarities  and differences.
Case A: An attractive looking white female adult disappeared under suspicious circumstances yet to be determined. The police carried out an investigation, suspects were questioned under caution resulting in the CPS being of the opinion there was insufficient evidence to bring a charge.
The investigation was eventually wound down and shelved waiting to be revived should compelling evidence of a lead turn up. The case is listed as a disappearance but the police believe it to be murder.
We are asked in this instance to believe the police are correct.
Case B: A photogenic  white female child disappeared under suspicious circumstances yet to be determined. The police carried out an investigation, suspects were questioned under caution resulting in the appropriate prosecuting authority being of the opinion there was insufficient evidence to bring a charge. The case was archived waiting to be revived should compelling evidence of a lead turn up.
The case is listed as a disappearance but the police believe there to have been parental involvement.
We are asked in this instance to believe the police are incorrect.

In Case A there has been little reported word from the police after the review linked in one of my earlier posts
In Case B there has been little reported by the police except in Tabloid Newspapers and TV Chat Shows. I include Crimewatch and Panorama in the Generic Chat Show Group as it they exist primarily as entertainment, most reporters not having Mr Pilger’s integrity to preface their reports with “this is just my opinion”.
I suppose with both cases there is an element of Missing White Woman Syndrome.

What police believe there is parental invovement
Cite or caveat

[barrier]

Its clear there are lots of reasons to rule out parental involvement

There seems to be reports and backed up by the likes of Rowley that the parents have not been investigated is there one from any official capacity that confirms this not to be the case and the parents have been investigated by OG and ruled out,world of difference one would think.

[Erngath]

That's not for me to say,OG don't give a running commentary I  only comment on what is known.

But one could say that so far there has been no incriminating evidence  against the McCanns which has either been ignored or dismissed  or has just not been sufficient  to have them charged.