UK police guilty of flawed tunnel vision in hunt for Maddie McCann

[ferryman]

Along with no evidence of a visit to Luz, there is no evidence of such a check prior to the remit being drawn up.

If you have any evidence of such a check, kindly cite it.

How do you suppose they have spent the time since the first investigation was closed in August 2008?

And 'no evidence of a visit to luz?  There were UK officers working on the ground in Luz.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=second+enquiry+madeleine&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjequLKuv7TAhXqCcAKHZ6xCeEQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1582&bih=769#tbm=isch&q=second+enquiry+madeleine+english+officers+working+on+ground+in+luz&imgrc=sBBej9Xv6ZbT5M:

[G-Unit]

As there is clearly no indication of parental involvement, why would that be a question?

You seem to have missed the fact that the Portuguese investigation did not rule out parental involvement. Operation Grange appear to have assumed they did.

[ferryman]

You seem to have missed the fact that the Portuguese investigation did not rule out parental involvement. Operation Grange appear to have assumed they did.

Cite?

[Heriberto Janosch]

ETA: my question relates to the context and the terms used. Simple curiosity.

Yes, I saw that, Heri, but what are the original links? Are they from press reports or video extracts?

Links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s93f4FHRfBk

http://news.met.police.uk/documents/transcript-of-interview-with-ac-mark-rowley-66743

[ferryman]

You seem to have missed the fact that the Portuguese investigation did not rule out parental involvement. Operation Grange appear to have assumed they did.

(of all sources!) Joana Morais:

https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/rogerio-alves-mccanns-lawyer-new.html

McCann couple excluded from responsibilities in the disappearance of their daughter

The lawyer of Madeleine McCann's parents revealed that the couple knew about the reopening of the process. Rogério Alves said that they were given the assurance that the new line of inquiry excludes them from any responsibility in their daughter's disappearance.

Transcript
Rogério Alves - The reopening of the investigation means that there are new leads, new paths which weren't explored and that now the Judiciary police will undertake a new search, or, rather a new set of investigative lines in order to reach the truth. That's what matters, to reach the truth. The family was informed of this reopening of the process. The family was informed of the reason behind the reopening of the process, and the family knows as well that this new line of investigation excludes any responsibility of the parents.

[G-Unit]

The checked the case files from the beginning and satisfied themselves that no one close to Madeleine had any case to answer.
Then they began a fresh! investigative phase.  Where that leads or has led, we won't really have a proper grasp on until the investigation is formally shelved, and perhaps not even then.

The case files which, according to the Portuguese Supreme Court judges did not demonstrate the McCann's innocence?

I don't think the OG investigation will be shelved; I would expect it to stay open as a cold case. Consequently no information will be forthcoming unless the Portuguese archive their case. Even then I would expect UK lawyers to insist on behalf of the Met that anything relating to OG is kept secret.

[barrier]

Delete,quote mucked up.

[ShiningInLuz]

How do you suppose they have spent the time since the first investigation was closed in August 2008?

And 'no evidence of a visit to luz?  There were UK officers working on the ground in Luz.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=second+enquiry+madeleine&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjequLKuv7TAhXqCcAKHZ6xCeEQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1582&bih=769#tbm=isch&q=second+enquiry+madeleine+english+officers+working+on+ground+in+luz&imgrc=sBBej9Xv6ZbT5M:

OK, Let's do it the long way round.

The date when the case was archived is of no import to what OG did and when.  The Sky 10th special covers the re-opening circumstances and date.

The debate here was about whether OG had visited the incident scene in Luz.  That is block 5, the Tapas area, the Smithman location.  You get none of those from digging up the mound.

[ferryman]

OK, Let's do it the long way round.

The date when the case was archived is of no import to what OG did and when.  The Sky 10th special covers the re-opening circumstances and date.

The debate here was about whether OG had visited the incident scene in Luz.  That is block 5, the Tapas area, the Smithman location.  You get none of those from digging up the mound.

Some 10 years after the crime?

[ShiningInLuz]

The case files which, according to the Portuguese Supreme Court judges did not demonstrate the McCann's innocence?

I don't think the OG investigation will be shelved; I would expect it to stay open as a cold case. Consequently no information will be forthcoming unless the Portuguese archive their case. Even then I would expect UK lawyers to insist on behalf of the Met that anything relating to OG is kept secret.

Roughly speaking, this is what I expect too.  It's a pity.  The information in the PI files and the ILORS would be most informative.

[ferryman]

What jury? The Supreme Court is supreme, which means it can't 'screw up' as you so elegantly phrase it. What it says stands, and this is what it said;

page 66

It is true that the criminal investigation was eventually closed, in particular because none of the clues which led to the constitution of the appellants as arguidos was subsequently confirmed or consolidated (n°15 of the proven facts).

However, even in the filing dispatch serious reservations are raised as to the likelihood of the allegation that Madeleine had been abducted, in view of the doubts raised by the Jane Tanner/Kate McCann version.

The investigation intended to see clarified those doubts by the reconstitution of the events mentioned in the closing dispatch, an initiative however that was made unfeasible by the witnesses' failure to appear after being summoned to.
 
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.15

Jury still out is an English idiom you may not be used to?


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jury+still+out+meaning&oq=jury+still+out&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.7548j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

And yes, the shelved enquiry concluded (the archiving dispatch) that the McCanns have no case to answer; neither their friends; and also makes plain that Madeleine was abducted.  Heaven knows why the Supreme Court interpreted it any other way.

[Carana]

Links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s93f4FHRfBk

http://news.met.police.uk/documents/transcript-of-interview-with-ac-mark-rowley-66743

Thanks, Heri. I had to wade through that all over again but finally found it: @48 or so. So Do Carmo did mention that the PJ investigation didn't consider them as "suspects".

From the Rowley link:

And what you’ve seen in the bits which have been reported publically is those appeals, when we’ve announced suspects, when we’ve made particular announcements, slowly crunching through it and focusing our attention and making progress. And of course at one stage we had 600 people who at one stage have been of interest to the enquiry, that doesn’t mean that they are suspects, people who were suspicious at the time or have a track record which makes us concerned about them, sifting, which focused the enquiry increasingly and when you’re doing this then across a continent and with multiple languages and having to build working relationships with the Portuguese, you put that together and that takes real time.
So we’ve achieved complete understanding of it all, we’ve sifted out many of the potential suspects, people of interest, and where we are today is a much smaller team, focused on a small remaining number of critical lines of enquiry, which we think are significant. If we didn’t think they were significant we wouldn’t be carrying on.

[ShiningInLuz]

Some 10 years after the crime?

The OG dig was 3 years ago.  OG started before that.

And if you are another telling me there is nothing to learn on the ground 10 years on, it is clear to me you don't understand Luz and/or you don't fully understand the case.

I show tour visitors what is important about the mound.  It is not the OG dig.

I show them what is important about the Smithman site.  You do not get that from sitting on an office chair in Belgravia.

I show them the layout of the OC, and explain the logistics.  OG may have got this, because they interviewed John Hill, Donna Hill, Silvia Batista and Vitor dos Santos in Dec 2014.  But I doubt it.

Here's a question for you, my armchair friend.  Where do you go if you reside in Luz and you want to get cut a copy of a cruciate key, as per 5A spec?  And no, that cannot be answered from Belgravia.  But there is a clue in the Panorama 10th special.

[stephen25000]

I don't need to be 'told' anything; I just need to state the facts.

Madeleine's disappearance is unsolved.

[Brietta]

Snip
What jury? The Supreme Court is supreme, which means it can't 'screw up' as you so elegantly phrase it. What it says stands, and this is what it said;

Then despite the supremacy of the supreme court they appear to have overlooked Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights in their presumption.

Did Kate and Gerry have the benefit of an independent and impartial hearing in public?
In fact were criminal charges ever brought against either of them?
What minimal rights did they enjoy chief among which is the right to be presumed innocent until criminal charges laid against them have been heard?
Were they enabled to exercise their right to question witnesses and defend themselves in an open court?

You cannot have it both ways.

It cannot be accepted that the status imposed by three? appeal court judges when weighed against the right to a fair trial, is paramount to anything.
Certainly not if justice means anything.

As you said ... what jury?

However this is taking us away from the argument that somehow posters on internet fora are a great deal more knowledgeable about police protocols when investigating international missing child cases than the police do.
So far I've seen no evidence of that.