Author Topic: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?  (Read 655 times)

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Offline ......

Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« on: May 15, 2017, 01:37:41 PM »
Looking at the procedures that the police need to follow with regards a "Missing Person's Enquiry".. I came across a number of points that I feel, the Police had given insufficient attention to...

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When determining the media strategy the impact on the community must be considered. A missing person critical incident is different from other incidents and will require additional considerations. This is because the nature of the investigation is likely to generate public interest over a number of days.

I believe the disruption of the tenants at 44 Canygne Road was above what was necessary in evaluating the "Missing Person's Enquiry".. Even when it had escalated to a "Murder Enquiry" on the 28th December 2010, I believe that minimum disruption to the Tenants should have been in place at all costs....

I was trying to imagine if there had been a murder in a tower block would the Police make it so no tenant could stay there ??? I doubt that very much...

This next quote I think maybe another Eureka moment...

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Suspicious missing person investigations
In many missing person cases the reasons for disappearance cannot be readily established and various hypotheses must be investigated simultaneously. This may mean running a twin-track investigation, with one side focusing on the possibility that the missing person has become a victim of crime and the other focusing on alternative reasons for the disappearance. In such cases, or where this is being considered, advice is available from the MPB.


I never understood why the investigation had different sets of people working it...With what appeared to be a change of team leader... And with careful consideration of the above quote I believe I had found the answer...

They were running A Twin-Track Investigation... And I am of the belief that DC Mark Saunders was running the "Missing Persons side of the Investigation... and DCI Phil Jones simutaniously running a potential "Murder Inquiry"..... (IMO)

But it brings me to a Problem or a revelation depending on how you view it.... DCI Phil Jones tell the Leveson Inquiry (If I remember Correctly) that he TOOK Over the Investigation on the 27th December 2010... well I'm not sure if that is the case if they were running a TWIN TRACK Investigation... (IMO)

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Mr Jay
You are currently a detective chief inspector with the Avon and Somerset constabulary. You've worked in the service for 23 years. You were the senior investigating officer as from 27 December 2010 in relation to the Joanna Yeates investigation; is that right?

DCI Phil Jones Reply:
Quote
Mr Philip Jones
Yes, I was, sir.

What I believe he means there is ... That on the 27th December 2010.. The case had Offically became a Murder Inquiry.... he took over nothing (IMO)...

 DCI Phil Jones as we Know became the lead on the "Murder Investigation which he had a Press Conference and was Introduced by Chief Superintendent Jon Stratford....

The Press Conference was aired on the afternoon (I believe of the 28th December 2010)

From Police Announce Murder enquiry launched over death of Joanna
Avon and Somerset Constabulary


Uploaded on Dec 28, 2010
Detective Chief Inspector Phil Jones has today (28/12/10) confirmed that the investigation into the death of 25-year-old Joanna Yeates is now a murder enquiry: Below are quotes from that Conference..

Chief Super Jon Stratford:..

Quote
OK... Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen ,thank you for coming here today... Can I also thank you for the paitence you showed yesterday when we were forced to postpone the press conference until today... I would like to Introduce DCI Phil Jones, Phil is The Senior Investigating Officer in this Investigation, he will read out a statement

I wondered why they postponed the original press conference... "FORCED TOO.. is what he says.. well it's possible that they would have given the results the day before and I'm sure I heard on the 27th December 2010 that she had been strangled ...

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The Investigation into the death of Joanna Yeates is now a Murder Investigation and I am leading that Investigation. As you know the post mortem examination has taken longer than usual because of Frozen Condition of her body.... The Pathologist completed his Investigation Last Night and concluded that the cause of death was compression of the neck.. In other words strangulation...

So... we get less and less time for a FROZEN BODY TO THAW....

The other thing that sprung to mind was DCI Karen Thomas.... If they had been running a TWIN TRACK Investigation, how would it be possible for her to be doing "Missing Person Enquiries in the begining??

All of her Interviews from day one have to be as a "Murder Investigation" with this TWIN TRACK approach happening... (IMO)

I think I need to look at DC Karen Thomas a little more closely... That is why you have so many Police Officer at the scene  all the time... Two Investigation taking Place at The same Time and Place....

So what happens about Cross Contamination and securing a CRIME SCENE???

Didn't someone say that Investigators were kept seperate from the different scenes.... Well how was that possible.. When your having a TWIN TRACK Investigation and those two Teams are making different Inquires and are walking around the Crime scene... (IMO)

http://leveson.sayit.mysociety.org/hearing-27-march-2012/mr-philip-jones

https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/major-investigation-and-public-protection/missing-persons/missing-person-investigations/specific-investigations/#suspicious-missing-person-investigations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8noQpXm0HQU

Offline ......

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2017, 02:11:46 PM »

I think now a methodical approach is need to establish which part of the Investigation in the media is "The Missing persons Inquiry"....

And which part of the Investigation in the media is "The Murder Inquiry"... This has to start from the begining of the Investigation...

It is easy to see how in the The Media it reffered to A... .."Police Source" had given information to unsuspecting reporters when they could have come from either side of the Two Investigating Teams ... (IMO)...

Question.... did the have 2 seperate rooms for this Investigation that they were conducting as the obviously were Two different Investigation taking Place at The Same Time..?? (IMO)


Online John

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2017, 02:31:19 PM »
I think now a methodical approach is need to establish which part of the Investigation in the media is "The Missing persons Inquiry"....

And which part of the Investigation in the media is "The Murder Inquiry"... This has to start from the begining of the Investigation...

It is easy to see how in the The Media it reffered to A... .."Police Source" had given information to unsuspecting reporters when they could have come from either side of the Two Investigating Teams ... (IMO)...

Question.... did the have 2 seperate rooms for this Investigation that they were conducting as the obviously were Two different Investigation taking Place at The Same Time..?? (IMO)

Running a twin-track investigation does not mean using separate accommodation or not sharing evidence.  My understanding of a twin-track investigation is that a senior detective will be tasked with each scenario and report to a more senior officer who will lead and have control of the investigation.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline ......

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2017, 03:09:29 PM »
Running a twin-track investigation does not mean using separate accommodation or not sharing evidence.  My understanding of a twin-track investigation is that a senior detective will be tasked with each scenario and report to a more senior officer who will lead and have control of the investigation.

yes.... And I believe that Senior Officer was Chief Super Jon Stratford...

Of course they share Evidence:...

Quote
Where it is apparent that the missing person is subject of a major crime, there are well-established procedures in place to give structure to the investigation.

It is strongly recommended that, if the level of the investigation is raised to a murder inquiry, all of the initial enquiries and searches are reviewed to ensure that nothing has been missed.


So they Investigations are run side by side I believe... then a review takes Place as to what Information both teams have collated... (IMO)

Which should take some time to Cross reference all the Possibilities...

From the Information gathered by both teams ....



https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/major-investigation-and-public-protection/missing-persons/missing-person-investigations/specific-investigations/#suspicious-missing-person-investigations

Offline Leonora

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2017, 03:24:27 PM »
Unlike Vincent Tabak, I could never be accused of researching the murder in 1996 of poor Melanie Hall. Therefore, until a few days ago, I associated DCI Gareth Bevan with Joanna's Yeates's pizza, and nothing but the pizza. I seriously underestimated this unlucky detective, as he seemingly played no further role in this investigation.

The local press, however, were better informed. They remembered DCI Bevan as a leading member of the team who had been flushing out new suspects for Melanie Hall's murder only months before Joanna disappeared. The day after DCI Bevan announced on TV that police were looking, not just for Joanna, but also for her pizza, journalists asked Chief Superintendant Jon Stratford if he thought there was a link to Melanie's murder. Although the press didn't get a straight answer from him, it is clear with hindsight that Operation Braid WAS a twin track investigation, and DCI Bevan's TV appearance marked the transition from missing to murdered.

That was when Joanna's parents were saying, "the police know more than they are saying". I think the cops KNEW she had been murdered by then, and even possibly that the body lay at Longwood Lane. I think they may have had a tip-off from the killer himself, or even from a crying girl, or from the landlord who had seen mysterious persons on Joanna's front path. But that is speculation.

Offline AerialHunter

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2017, 03:57:10 PM »

The local press, however, were better informed. They remembered DCI Bevan as a leading member of the team who had been flushing out new suspects for Melanie Hall's murder only months before Joanna disappeared.

That was when Joanna's parents were saying, "the police know more than they are saying". I think the cops KNEW she had been murdered by then, and even possibly that the body lay at Longwood Lane. I think they may have had a tip-off from the killer himself, or even from a crying girl.

A tip off from the killer himself, now that would fit the model perfectly.
There is none so noble or in receipt of his fellows unbridled adulation as that police officer who willingly deceives to protect one of his own kind and, by virtue of birthright, extends that privilege to his family.

Offline ......

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2017, 04:25:51 PM »
More Procedure ..:..

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Investigation
Physical evidence
The three physical evidence strategies are built on the foundation of Locard’s Principle of Exchange, which states that ‘every contact leaves a trace’. They are:

crime scene strategy (see managing scenes)
forensic strategy
pathology strategy.
These three strategies are intricately interwoven and investigating officers should keep the objectives and outcomes of all three areas in mind when developing, reviewing and managing these strategies.

Managing of the Crime scene appear to be a little hap hazzard (IMO)... there were so many people entering and leaving the crime scene at any given time that plenty of transfer would be bound to happen...

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Types of physical evidence
physical material, eg, what has the offender touched and how was entry gained?
victim incapacitation, eg, what weapons were used?
sexual evidence
forensic awareness, eg, did the offender wear gloves?
offender injuries, eg, was the offender injured?
missing items, eg, what was stolen?
blood distribution, eg, which escape route was taken?
linking evidence, eg, what evidence would link the offender to the scene?

I believe they followed these instructions and worked with what was closest.... They knew that there was No Forced Entry.. but never come to the conclusion that Joanna yeates possibily left her Flat with someone know to her and they returned her items...

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Forensic strategy
The forensic strategy enables the potential of material recovered during crime scene examination to be maximised, and can help with:

I have attached an image with the strategies....
Cohoboration :

This must include... Independant confirmation of circumstances, critical fact or witness testimony and evidence of the culpability of a suspect.....

Where on that scale did Dr Vincent Tabak come????  Because if they followed these procedures he didn't come in the boundaries of the... Forensic Stratergy... (IMO)..

https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/investigative-strategies/physical-evidence/#forensic-strategy


Offline ......

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2017, 07:00:47 PM »
If as I believe DC Karen Thomas was part of "The Murder Investigation Team."... in this twin track operation, why did she persist in ringing and talking to Dr Vincent Tabak on so many occasions....???

She had seen him at his residence according to the trial transcript:

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At Line 292 of the prosecution chart
Tabak Googled the words
‘manslaughter sentencing’
Then he went to Wikipedia website to search the words
‘manslaughter in English law murder in English law’
Tabak left work at 5.06pm \on 22 Dec 2010
and at home he Googled
‘Los Angeles murder case’
At Line 305 of the prosecution chart
PC Karen Thomas went to 44 Canynge Road to search

She called him about two days later when he was at The Morson Family home... We do not know what the content of this particular phone call was, as this too was never played in court....

We jump from this to DC Karen Thomas dashing over to Holland with what can only be described as the intention to Interview Dr Vincent Tabak as a suspect and NOT cautioning him at the start of the "process" as she her self go gleefully says....

Once they had the OK from the CPS all action on the "Murder Inquiry Team"... were collecting evidence I believe to charge someone as a suspect...

As part of the Arrest strategy....

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Once a suspect has been identified, a strategy development approach can be adopted to gather material that will either implicate them in the offence or eliminate them. Every individual who falls within the suspect category must be treated in the same way. If there are specific reasons for not following the same procedure, these should be recorded in the crime report or policy file.

And the CPS advised the Police of the way to proceed in "The Planned Arrest".. of Dr Vincent Tabak....

It is my Strong Belief... that DC Karen Thomas went to Holland with the sole intention of gathering the evidence she would need to proceed with this planned arrest.... (IMO)

It has never been a coincidence that the 6 hour interview that Dr Vincent Tabak had in Holland... Is what Holland has a country allows this amount of time for the Initial interview as a suspect.. And that fact in itself.. should throw up "Flags " of what type of interview did Dr Vincent Tabak have in his native country of Holland...

DC Karen Thomas would most likely have been on the Twin Track "Murder Investigation Team"... and her insistence and her approach not only with Dr Vincent Tabak but CJ also... would have helped the team aggressively follow this line of enquiry... (IMO)...

She was never surprised by anything Dr Vincent Tabak had said in the Holland interview... she went there with the sole purpose of gathering evidence against him and collecting his DNA... (IMO)

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Timing an arrest
The way in which the identity of the suspect is discovered has a bearing on how and when an arrest should be made. If there is a choice, it is usually between making an early arrest and conducting a planned arrest. The decision about timing depends on a number of factors, which should be kept under continuous review. If the circumstances alter, the decision to make an immediate arrest or to delay it may have to be amended and the reasons for this recorded.

DC Kare Thomas had (IMO) seen Dr Vincent Tabak as a possible suspect early on in the investigation, she would not have had to keep contacting him about the disappearnce of his neighbour once he gave his inital statement when she was reported missing... yet it appears she badgered him on a regular basis in a the matter of days...

If DC Karen Thomas had such suspicions about Dr Vincent tabak there should be notes which cohoberate her suspicions and need a look at (IMO)...





http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf
https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/working-with-suspects/

Offline mrswah

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Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2017, 07:25:17 PM »
I agree entirely. If DC Karen Thomas saw VT as a suspect before interviewing him in Holland on 31st December, there should be notes about this, and we need to know why.


Offline ......

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2017, 07:46:35 PM »
I agree entirely. If DC Karen Thomas saw VT as a suspect before interviewing him in Holland on 31st December, there should be notes about this, and we need to know why.

Completely agree....  She was hounding Dr Vincent Tabak as her regular contact with him suggests... So lets see those notes please DC Karen Thomas....


Offline Leonora

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 04:49:03 PM »
The police, the news media and her parents over-reacted to the initial disappearance of Joanna - which could have had the usual explanations - she could have been at a party and got too drunk to leave - she and Greg could have had a misunderstanding or even a row, so she stomped off somewhere else and did "fun things" (his own words).

Mr & Mrs Yeates got into their car and drove straight over after Greg rang.

Anneleise Jackson drove out to 44 Canynge Road within 2 hours of Greg's 999 call, and proceeded to rouse the other inhabitants. Normal procedure would be to say, "Wait to see if she shows up at work".

Within 12 hours, the search was publicly designated "Operation Braid", which reveals that the police likened Joanna to a princess who has been snatched by an evil monster.

The first public appeal with her parents and boyfriend was chaired, not by a run-of-the-mill police spokesman, not by a family liaison officer, but by no less than Detective Superintendant Mark Saunders, a senior officer on the Major Crime Investigation Team.

Greg was publicly absolved of any involvement in Joanna's disappearance.

A key detective in the on-going investigation into the unsolved murder of Melanie Hall, DCI Gareth Bevan, appealed for Joanna's missing pizza.

Mr Yeates declared, "The police know more than they are telling".

What if, I ask myself, Joanna's assailant deliberately planted one or more clues in her flat - clues that Greg had to mention when he telephoned her parents and then when he made the 999 call, but were redacted out at Vincent Tabak's trial? An object that the police would know had belonged to Melanie Hall could have been left in the flat.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:09:03 PM by Leonora »

Offline Leonora

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2017, 05:03:56 PM »
There can be only one explanation for the need to summon four fire engines before Joanna's body could be recovered. She was not dumped beside Longwood Lane, but in an inaccessible site surrounded by water, and probably invisible. The failure of the dog walkers to testify in person reinforces my suspicion that their role was a fabrication, and the police already knew where the body was when Christmas day dawned.

Did they get a tip-off from the killer? Or was the location too revealed by a coded message to the police that he had deliberately deposited in her flat?

After Joanna's body had been found, the unsolved murder of Glenis Carruthers was publicly linked to this case. Bristol Zoo publicly offered police CCTV footage. Detectives talked to Yorkshire police about the disappearance of Claudia Lawrence.

Media reports claimed that forensic investigators had found a "vital clue" in Longwood Lane, but police wouldn't say anything about what kind of clue it could be. Its identity was never revealed, even at the trial. Did it comprise objects that could only have come from Glenis Carruthers and Claudia Lawrence?

Is there a syndicate at work, whose members murder young women for kicks, and trade trophies amongst themselves, for planting at the scenes of their misdeeds? Is this why "Operation Braid" was classified as a "Complex Case"?

« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:11:11 PM by Leonora »

Offline mrswah

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Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2017, 05:20:17 PM »
I cannot agree that Joanna's parents over reacted. I think they reacted as most parents would have done, because, obviously, Joanna's disappearance was out of character.  If Greg was worried enough to contact them, they must have been out of their minds with worry.

Offline ......

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2017, 02:28:41 PM »
I shouldn't speculate .... 

Offline ......

Re: Was This A Twin Track Investigation?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 02:47:46 PM »
Same again... going off topic... sorry ...