Moving door - 9:05 check

[Robittybob1]

Why would Madeleine have exited via the front door into what was a dark and daunting area for a wee child?

The patio door was unlocked; the street light was directly opposite and the lights from the tapas made using that exit a better lit prospective route.

But why would she have headed for the small reception area anyway?  Misty asked the question some time ago about whether she even knew her parents were not in the apartment.  She was asleep when they left.  Did she even know they could be located in the tapas restaurant?

They go to the Tapas every evening for high tea.  Madeleine would definitely know the way. She had to head to the secondary reception to get in from the street.  There was enough light to see your way.

[Eleanor]

They go to the Tapas every evening for high tea.  Madeleine would definitely know the way. She had to head to the secondary reception to get in from the street.  There was enough light to see your way.

But I very much doubt that Madeleine would have known that Kate and Gerry were at The Tapas Bar.  How could she have known this?

[sadie]

They go to the Tapas every evening for high tea.  Madeleine would definitely know the way. She had to head to the secondary reception to get in from the street.  There was enough light to see your way.

I doubt that they would go via the front door, when the patio door is so much closer ... and within view from the Tapas restaurant.

It was in excess of 120 metres by front door and less than 80 metres by patio door

[Robittybob1]

I doubt that they would go via the front door, when the patio door is so much closer ... and within view from the Tapas restaurant.

It was in excess of 120 metres by front door and less than 80 metres by patio door

During the day they locked up the apartment so it only makes sense that they left via the front door.  Would they take the push chair down those steps?  There is some talk that one would go around and open up the patio door.  So it was a bit of both.

[sadie]

During the day they locked up the apartment so it only makes sense that they left via the front door.  Would they take the push chair down those steps?  There is some talk that one would go around and open up the patio door.  So it was a bit of both.

Yep, they would if they went down to the beach or to Madeleines Kids club etc.   But going to the Tapas area to the pool or restuarant?  I doubt it.

I notice that in the well known photo of them splashing their feet in  the pool, Gerry and A***** and Madeleine are positioned with their backs to the sun in a corner position where they are more or less facing 5A.  To keep an eye on it cos the patio door was unlocked?

I wonder if they always sat on this side of the pool, for security of 5A, at the expence of losing a little sun?


My bet is that with little ones especially, there would be constant to-ing and fro-ing from 5A with it being so close... and I doubt that they would keep walkking all the way to the front door.

Drinks, home toilet, snacks, extra clothing, toys maybe .... We all know how demanding little ones can be.

AIMO

[ShiningInLuz]

During the day they locked up the apartment so it only makes sense that they left via the front door.  Would they take the push chair down those steps?  There is some talk that one would go around and open up the patio door.  So it was a bit of both.

The McCanns did NOT take a push chair on holiday with them.

[misty]

The McCanns did NOT take a push chair on holiday with them.

They did hire one from MW, though, which was used for more than the trip to the beach.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8172.msg402980#msg402980
*snipped*
This was the same Madeleine McCann we had seen tagging along with her mother as she pushed her twins in a double buggy up the hill. This was happening to the same family we had passed on several occasions days before as we walked down towards the supermarket. This was the same Gerry McCann we had seen playing tennis several days earlier.

[ShiningInLuz]

Yep, they would if they went down to the beach or to Madeleines Kids club etc.   But going to the Tapas area to the pool or restuarant?  I doubt it.

I notice that in the well known photo of them splashing their feet in  the pool, Gerry and A***** and Madeleine are positioned with their backs to the sun in a corner position where they are more or less facing 5A.  To keep an eye on it cos the patio door was unlocked?

I wonder if they always sat on this side of the pool, for security of 5A, at the expence of losing a little sun?


My bet is that with little ones especially, there would be constant to-ing and fro-ing from 5A with it being so close... and I doubt that they would keep walkking all the way to the front door.

Drinks, home toilet, snacks, extra clothing, toys maybe .... We all know how demanding little ones can be.

AIMO

The sun is overhead, and they are facing, as nearly as can be ascertained, due south i.e. nobody in that trio is looking at 5A.

[ShiningInLuz]

They did hire one from MW, though, which was used for more than the trip to the beach.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8172.msg402980#msg402980
*snipped*
This was the same Madeleine McCann we had seen tagging along with her mother as she pushed her twins in a double buggy up the hill. This was happening to the same family we had passed on several occasions days before as we walked down towards the supermarket. This was the same Gerry McCann we had seen playing tennis several days earlier.

'madeleine' p57 "We borrowed a double buggy from Mark Warner to make the walk easier for Sean and Amelie." That was on the beach trip.

The two trips to the Millennium would have been much easier with a double buggy, and things might have turned out very differently if the McCanns had access to one.

Key parts of Mr McGee's testimony (the Sunday Independent journalist who wrote the article linked to) just don't stack up.

If they went from the Dolphin to Estrela, the obvious route was the one the Smiths took.  I have to perform contortions to put them on a route where anything could speed past them.

His paragraph on the McCanns is, IMO, tripe.  If I walked past someone playing tennis at the OC I would not recognise him the next day. The idea that he remembered Gerry is nonsensical.

[misty]

'madeleine' p57 "We borrowed a double buggy from Mark Warner to make the walk easier for Sean and Amelie." That was on the beach trip.

The two trips to the Millennium would have been much easier with a double buggy, and things might have turned out very differently if the McCanns had access to one.

Key parts of Mr McGee's testimony (the Sunday Independent journalist who wrote the article linked to) just don't stack up.

If they went from the Dolphin to Estrela, the obvious route was the one the Smiths took.  I have to perform contortions to put them on a route where anything could speed past them.

His paragraph on the McCanns is, IMO, tripe.  If I walked past someone playing tennis at the OC I would not recognise him the next day. The idea that he remembered Gerry is nonsensical.

Yet seemingly many, including you, have no trouble believing the Smiths' recollections of a man + child they saw for a few seconds on a darkened street.
Perhaps this part of the article also poses further questions about the family's inability to recall their sighting on the 3rd until much later:-
"Within 24 hours, the relatively quiet Hugo Beatty's bar and restaurant on the ground floor of the Estrela da Luz complex was transformed into a bustling press centre for the many journalists and camera crews who were dispatched to cover a story which had spread like wildfire on TV networks and in newspapers back in the UK".

It's a shame Mr McGee's statement is not in the files.

[Robittybob1]

Yep, they would if they went down to the beach or to Madeleines Kids club etc.   But going to the Tapas area to the pool or restuarant?  I doubt it.

I notice that in the well known photo of them splashing their feet in  the pool, Gerry and A***** and Madeleine are positioned with their backs to the sun in a corner position where they are more or less facing 5A.  To keep an eye on it cos the patio door was unlocked?

I wonder if they always sat on this side of the pool, for security of 5A, at the expence of losing a little sun?


My bet is that with little ones especially, there would be constant to-ing and fro-ing from 5A with it being so close... and I doubt that they would keep walkking all the way to the front door.

Drinks, home toilet, snacks, extra clothing, toys maybe .... We all know how demanding little ones can be.

AIMO

OK do you think Madeleine ever did that trip back on her own during the day.  For you are right the McCanns had their breakfast and their midday meals in their apartment, so they did seem to use their apartment as a home base more than the others.

[ShiningInLuz]

Yet seemingly many, including you, have no trouble believing the Smiths' recollections of a man + child they saw for a few seconds on a darkened street.
Perhaps this part of the article also poses further questions about the family's inability to recall their sighting on the 3rd until much later:-
"Within 24 hours, the relatively quiet Hugo Beatty's bar and restaurant on the ground floor of the Estrela da Luz complex was transformed into a bustling press centre for the many journalists and camera crews who were dispatched to cover a story which had spread like wildfire on TV networks and in newspapers back in the UK".

It's a shame Mr McGee's statement is not in the files.

I'm not sure what point you are making.

From memory, Peter Smith was told on the 4th May at Faro airport about a missing girl.  Martin Smith, I believe also found out on the 4th.

The question is what exact information was imparted to them - missing?  Or abducted? The penny would not have dropped before it became 'abducted', since then there would be an 'abductor' involved and Smithman fitted the bill.

And when did the timing of the alleged abduction surface in the news?  That piece of information would have been part of the link.

I know that Hugo Beatty's is a popular hangout for the journalists.  Indeed I went there last year on 2 May to see if any were in town.  There was a small group of folks in there, but they were watching football, with not a single reporter to be seen.  What I don't know is whether those first journalists rented accommodation in Estrela or not.

[misty]

I'm not sure what point you are making.

From memory, Peter Smith was told on the 4th May at Faro airport about a missing girl.  Martin Smith, I believe also found out on the 4th.

The question is what exact information was imparted to them - missing?  Or abducted? The penny would not have dropped before it became 'abducted', since then there would be an 'abductor' involved and Smithman fitted the bill.

And when did the timing of the alleged abduction surface in the news?  That piece of information would have been part of the link.

I know that Hugo Beatty's is a popular hangout for the journalists.  Indeed I went there last year on 2 May to see if any were in town.  There was a small group of folks in there, but they were watching football, with not a single reporter to be seen.  What I don't know is whether those first journalists rented accommodation in Estrela or not.

Taken from the same article
"Explaining to our four-year-old daughter what was happening was difficult. Instinctively, parents want to protect children from all the horrific things that go on in this world. Sometimes saying nothing is the best option. However, after we were asked to produce her passport at a police checkpoint just outside the village, officers examined her closely, looked at her passport several times to see if she resembled Madeleine in any way, we had to tell her the police were looking for a little girl who had gone missing and that her mummy and daddy wanted her back."

The police were looking for Madeleine, a missing little girl in pyjamas. Why didn't any of the Smith family recall the man + child they saw on a quiet, dark road - irrespective of being aware of any potential abductor? Madeleine was the focus of attention.

[ShiningInLuz]

Taken from the same article
"Explaining to our four-year-old daughter what was happening was difficult. Instinctively, parents want to protect children from all the horrific things that go on in this world. Sometimes saying nothing is the best option. However, after we were asked to produce her passport at a police checkpoint just outside the village, officers examined her closely, looked at her passport several times to see if she resembled Madeleine in any way, we had to tell her the police were looking for a little girl who had gone missing and that her mummy and daddy wanted her back."

The police were looking for Madeleine, a missing little girl in pyjamas. Why didn't any of the Smith family recall the man + child they saw on a quiet, dark road - irrespective of being aware of any potential abductor? Madeleine was the focus of attention.

I accept Madeleine was the focus.  But think about it for a moment.

According to DCI Andy Redwood there were 8 families with 11 children in the OC crèche that night. They must all have got back to their flats, presumably by walking or being carried.

There was Smithman + child, whom the Smiths did not initially think suspicious, merely a man plus child going home.

There was the Smith group, with one child aged 4 and another aged 6.  They had come from a pub.

You need to think along the lines that Luz is family friendly.  Kid's are welcome in a family group at 10pm in a pub, restaurant, or walking in the street.

[Mr Gray]

I accept Madeleine was the focus.  But think about it for a moment.

According to DCI Andy Redwood there were 8 families with 11 children in the OC crèche that night. They must all have got back to their flats, presumably by walking or being carried.

There was Smithman + child, whom the Smiths did not initially think suspicious, merely a man plus child going home.

There was the Smith group, with one child aged 4 and another aged 6.  They had come from a pub.

You need to think along the lines that Luz is family friendly.  Kid's are welcome in a family group at 10pm in a pub, restaurant, or walking in the street.

smithman was not near the creche....and not in a family group....blows your reasoning out of the water