Who was the mystery couple?

[barrier]

Your "Speculation" is grossly misrepresented.  There was no mention of a couple by Kate McCann.

Yvonne Martin then sent an anonymous letter to The PJ, which was hardly the act of a Professional.

If the letter was from anonymous how is it figured Y Martin sent it?

[Robittybob1]

If the letter was from anonymous how is it figured Y Martin sent it?

She might have signed it by accident.

[barrier]

She might have signed it by accident.

Hardly anonymous then was it?

[Robittybob1]

Hardly anonymous then was it?

But it solves your question "If the letter was from anonymous how is it figured Y Martin sent it?"   I was joking really.

[misty]

Yes, but that is in the context of the previous paragraph:

She adds that on one occasion, because it had occurred to her that the parents and the friends could eventually be involved in the child's disappearance, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police.

I agree there is no reason to suspect the parents of involvement, and I'm positive they were not involved, but that does not mean the statement that Yvonne made is false.

David Payne confirms the interaction happened in his rogatory statement.

David Payne also makes the following statement:

It was a face of someone's child who had been taken and you know and very clearly said she's gone, she's you know, she's gone, you know and there was a disbelief on our face you know ah you know you must be mistaken, what, and then you know just looking at her we just all err left the table, rushed over to her and as we were walking up towards the flat she said err you know they've taken her and it was, you know, and I know there's been a controversy about what was actually said but you know that is very accurately what had been said.

In my view "they've taken her" could be referring to a couple.

Yvonne Martin has clearly testified that Kate McCann told her that a couple had taken the child.

The question is whether that statement to true or false - I do not know the answer to that question.

But if someone has seen a 'couple' enter the apartment then has this couple come forward? Is this couple a figment of someone's imagination? What does 'they've taken her mean'?

"They've taken her" could be interpreted as "someone's taken her" without knowing whether the person was male or female. In the latest world-gone-mad P.C. society, gender neutrality means you now have to refer to a person as "they" rather than "he" or "she.

It is possible that YM recalled the conversation incorrectly just as she incorrectly identified the DP's T-Shirt (the man with the McCanns when she was present).

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm
"She describes him as tall man, height about 1,80 m, about 35 years old, of normal physical complexion, with short, dark hair, with a round face and with a scar on the left side of his face running from the eyebrow to the check. He uses graduated glasses of small dimension with rectangular lenses. He spoke with a southern English accent and was wearing cream coloured trousers and a dark polo shirt

Is anyone able to locate a photo showing DP with a scar running from his eyebrow to his cheek, please?

[Eleanor]

If the letter was from anonymous how is it figured Y Martin sent it?

She later admitted that she had sent the anonymous letter.

[Robittybob1]

She later admitted that she had sent the anonymous letter.

Thanks for that. 

[Eleanor]

Thanks for that.

My pleasure.  Nasty woman and her innuendoes.

[Robittybob1]

My pleasure.  Nasty woman and her innuendoes.

You're talking about Yvonne I presume?  I must look into that again at some stage, for I was a bit like Barrier at the start of learning about the case.

[ferryman]

PJ Inspector Ferreira had Yvonne Martin sized up bang-on to rights:

The statements given to the PJ today by Yvonne Martin provide a concrete clarification of the reasons for her suspicions, which in my opinion, do not point to any concrete element that could, in any way, make other inquiries directly related to her statements, viable.

With nothing further to add.

Signed

Inspector Ferreira
Processos Volume X111 Pages 3422 - 3424

[Innominate]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm
"She describes him as tall man, height about 1,80 m, about 35 years old, of normal physical complexion, with short, dark hair, with a round face and with a scar on the left side of his face running from the eyebrow to the check. He uses graduated glasses of small dimension with rectangular lenses. He spoke with a southern English accent and was wearing cream coloured trousers and a dark polo shirt

Is anyone able to locate a photo showing .... ...... with a scar running from his eyebrow to his cheek, please?

I cannot locate a photo, but the man is definitely David Payne.

David Payne rogatory:

1485 "Alright, okay well that's the end of the phone traffic, one fin, one question or one person I'd like to speak to you about is Yvonne MARTIN. Do you know a person called Yvonne MARTIN''
  01:34:03 Reply "Yvonne MARTIN''


1485 "Social Worker.'
  Reply "Right. Oh, okay, err there was a lady who was there on the err when me, when me and Kate were waiting on the err morning you know after Madeleine had disappeared err there was err a photographer who was living in the area who err approached us and was just saying ah I used to work for the Daily Mirror, he gave his card and then this woman came up and started err chatting to us who err essentially just said ah I've got many years of experience you know and just started to really try and again force their selves in the situation a bit rather than just saying look I'm around if you need me err you know, so basically I just said it wasn't you know appropriate at the time, could she leave us alone and err but I must admit I didn't know what her, that was you know, that was, and she was, you know she said she was trained for many years as a Social Worker and was out there now err and was offering her help, but not in a particularly helpful way and she appeared you know, and that was on the you know the morning, I don't know somewhere perhaps between nine and ten o' clock in the morning. Err you know I'm sure, sure she'd been at, you know, she popped in there and you know she was around the area, she was seen again, but I mean I didn't have any more contact with her then but at the time it wasn't particularly helpful. Err I can't really say any more than that.'


01:35:47 1485 "Did you know her before that meeting''
  Reply "Err no.'


1485 "Did you speak to the MCCANN'S about it''
  Reply "Err we, yeah we spoke in the context of you know that was completely inappropriate the way that she was trying to deal with it, it's like she was trying to council Kate there and then in the thick of, you know, they're still trying to establish what's going on and what was happening err so you know I spoke to, you know I'm sure I mentioned her to Kate and Gerry you know within a short space of time, you know within twenty four hours of it happening. Err you know, just an example I, you know I was with Kate for quite a number of hours where I was sat with her at the err Police Station in Portim' and everything and you know weeks later she said who was I sat with, you know, and it was that, its that kind of thing you know I'm sure you know I spoke to them about it there and then within twenty four hours but err you know nothing was really mentioned a great deal about her later on or you know it was the, the, you know pretty much you know the conversation was dealt, you know dealt with it there and then and it wasn't, you know, perhaps I mentioned it to the others saying you know and if she popped up here and there you know other people might have mentioned her but she wasn't something that kind of like was the focus of the conversations that we had subsequently.'


1485 "Yeah.'
  01:37:15 Reply "Err for that morning.'


1485 "Did you advise the MCCANN'S to turn to her''
  Reply "Not at all, no.'


1485 "Not at all''
  Reply "Not at all. She was someone I'd certainly say to, to keep clear of you know and I, and I think pretty much I was saying look you know, appreciate your concern at this stage but you know it's not the right time to be talking to her, if you want to leave a card then you know perhaps there might be a time in the future but you know can you just leave us please, and that was you know the basics of the conversation that I had with her. Err you know her timing was just completely off, err you know there was, I say there was someone else who visited on the night that she was abducted, I think she was from the upstairs and she was again you know trying to say there, there Kate, you're alright, and again it was just completely inappropriate timing.'


1485 "Yeah.'
  Reply "I didn't think there was anything sinister about it I just thought it was people who didn't really perhaps have an insight into you know what has gone on and what was good timing and what wasn't. I never really thought anything much more about either of them.'

---

[Innominate]

PJ Inspector Ferreira had Yvonne Martin sized up bang-on to rights:

I'm not trying to defend her, but her initial approach seemed reasonable: i.e. if Gerry was not the biological father then the actual biological father may have snatched Madeleine, my understanding is that this is quite common.

She also made a statement that she thought she recognised the 'third individual' from her work, this was possibly ill-advised, but I'm not sure that it was malicious.

[Robittybob1]

If there is a connection between the mystery couple and the couple that Kate was talking about with Yvonne I don't see why Yvonne Martin's statement can't be part of the OP and on topic. 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVONNE-WARREN-MARTIN.htm

[Robittybob1]

Read through the statement by Yvonne.  There is one part that is a bit odd at the end and it could just be a misunderstanding.

"She adds that, after having spoken to the McCann couple, she spoke to the resort manager, and after identifying herself, asked him whether there had been a break-in in the apartment where the child was, to which he replied no but that the door was open as were the window blinds, which, according to Kate, should have been closed but were found open.

Does that mean both the door and the blinds (shutters) were open "which, according to Kate, should have been closed but were found open".   We are not talking the sliding patio door are we but the front door.  Was the front door and the window open?

[Brietta]

I'm not trying to defend her, but her initial approach seemed reasonable: i.e. if Gerry was not the biological father then the actual biological father may have snatched Madeleine, my understanding is that this is quite common.

She also made a statement that she thought she recognised the 'third individual' from her work, this was possibly ill-advised, but I'm not sure that it was malicious.

The woman is indefensible as far as I am concerned.

• she arrived by her own invitation at the scene of the alleged abduction waving her 'credentials' around
• she was known to none ... neither the police nor the victim's parents nor any in their party
• not surprisingly the police would have assumed she was there in an official capacity and the victims having seen her coming from police lines would have assumed she was with the police
• she made unprofessional value judgements which she 'shared' without verification
• don't forget she had approached a team of professionals who very quickly assessed that they had perhaps been invaded by exactly the type of person police usually take great pains to protect victims from and who questioned her presence
• she took it upon herself ... who did this woman think she was??? ... to attempt to isolate and further upset the grieving mother if such a thing were possible ... so that she could probe further into things that did not concern her

I think there will be few who think that is either appropriate or professional behaviour.  She was ushered away from the scene and the person who did that apparently became the victim of her spite ... why else write an anonymous letter associating him with the vilest association possible with not the slightest indication of veracity?
What was her intention in doing that if not malice?
In my opinion, Yvonne Martin did not cover herself in glory as far as this episode involving her was concerned and I have often wondered what her work superiors made of her behaviour when they learned what she had done.