Author Topic: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.  (Read 3335 times)

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Offline ShiningInLuz

Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« on: July 07, 2017, 05:25:28 PM »
I attended the Luz June 2014 dig of the mound by OG.  I would estimate it to be under a 10 minute walk from here.  So I did it 3 or 4 times.

So I have seen Tito and Muzzy in active service.

When the handlers wanted the dogs to investigate an area of land, the dogs did not act like laser-guided missiles.  They did things like running outside the area the handler wanted searched.  They covered the same area not just once, but multiple times.  The handlers used calls and hand actions to direct and re-direct the dogs.

If anyone requests a cite that I was there, or that this was the behaviour I observed, I am going to ROFL.

Equally, if anyone is pedantic enough to point out this was not a house search or a cars-in-garage search, I am going to ROFL.

It is my understanding that when Sergey Murat was made an arguido, his mother's car was searched by the dogs.  His own car from 2007 had been torched long before 2014.  There is no point in me asking how that search was conducted, because I very much doubt that Sergey or his mother would have been permitted to attend.

I cannot even get confirmation that the car was indeed searched, as the family refuse to discuss the case.

 8((()*/

33
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 09:24:45 PM by John »
What's up, old man?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 06:42:53 PM »
I attended the Luz June 2014 dig of the mound by OG.  I would estimate it to be under a 10 minute walk from here.  So I did it 3 or 4 times.

So I have seen Tito and Muzzy in active service.

When the handlers wanted the dogs to investigate an area of land, the dogs did not act like laser-guided missiles.  They did things like running outside the area the handler wanted searched.  They covered the same area not just once, but multiple times.  The handlers used calls and hand actions to direct and re-direct the dogs.

If anyone requests a cite that I was there, or that this was the behaviour I observed, I am going to ROFL.

Equally, if anyone is pedantic enough to point out this was not a house search or a cars-in-garage search, I am going to ROFL.

It is my understanding that when Sergey Murat was made an arguido, his mother's car was searched by the dogs.  His own car from 2007 had been torched long before 2014.  There is no point in me asking how that search was conducted, because I very much doubt that Sergey or his mother would have been permitted to attend.

I cannot even get confirmation that the car was indeed searched, as the family refuse to discuss the case.

 8((()*/
A question has been raised as to whether the OG effort was 2 dogs, or 4 dogs as apparently was quoted in the media.  Here is my take on this point.

Sorry, I cannot give the forum a definitive answer one way or the other.

Prior to the digs, I had little interest in the case, although I had read both Kate's book and Gonçalo's book.

It was my disbelief and anger that SY were digging up central Luz that got me started.  So at the time, I would rate my expertise on the case, on a scale of 0-10, as perhaps a 1.

I never thought to take pictures or video, which I definitely would now.

So I mainly wondered in amazement at the circus display.  We had GNR, PJ and SY.  We had dogs and horses.  We had guns.  We had helicopters, aeroplanes and at least one drone. We had media video and photography.  Teams from the UK and teams from Lisbon.  OG turned up with brand new shovels and pickaxes and learned these are useless for digging in the Algarve.  There was ground-penetrating radar and the ubiquitous two-stroke strimmer for clearing vegetation prior to fingertip searches.  There was a large combined control centre on the top of the mound.  There was another GNR control centre on 25 April street.

We lived for about 8 months on the urbanisation one can see beside the mound, the Paraíso (same name as the restaurant on the beach).  So I am familiar with the locale, and had walked across it many times. At the time of the dig I knew enough of the area to walk around the entire perimeter.

On 25 April Street was an Italian restaurant that my family and I have eaten in, called Amici (friends).  At one of these meals we were told a story which would become relevant in the dig.  I was having white fish in lemon sauce.  As the water served it, he said my potatoes were grown on an allotment on the land around mound.  Amici had agreed to exchange water required to grow the vegetables in exchange for a portion of the produce.

This suggests that one or more of Andy Redwood's 'anomalies' was simply due to a vegetable patch.

Since I was simply treating the dig as an amusement, as a circus, I didn't take detailed notes on anything.

I cannot remember seeing more than two dogs at any one time.  Of course, that does not preclude more than two being deployed simultaneously.  Nor does it preclude the dogs being deployed in shifts, to give them time off.
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2017, 06:48:37 PM »
I attended the Luz June 2014 dig of the mound by OG.  I would estimate it to be under a 10 minute walk from here.  So I did it 3 or 4 times.

So I have seen Tito and Muzzy in active service.

When the handlers wanted the dogs to investigate an area of land, the dogs did not act like laser-guided missiles.  They did things like running outside the area the handler wanted searched.  They covered the same area not just once, but multiple times.  The handlers used calls and hand actions to direct and re-direct the dogs.

If anyone requests a cite that I was there, or that this was the behaviour I observed, I am going to ROFL.

Equally, if anyone is pedantic enough to point out this was not a house search or a cars-in-garage search, I am going to ROFL.

It is my understanding that when Sergey Murat was made an arguido, his mother's car was searched by the dogs.  His own car from 2007 had been torched long before 2014.  There is no point in me asking how that search was conducted, because I very much doubt that Sergey or his mother would have been permitted to attend.

I cannot even get confirmation that the car was indeed searched, as the family refuse to discuss the case.

 8((()*/
And once again these dogs found nothing
That's why they had to be repeatedly called back
Because there was nothing to alert too
What you are implying is that if there were something the dogs may not react to it
May miss it unless brought back multiple times
That doesn't sound correct

Offline misty

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2017, 06:52:02 PM »
A question has been raised as to whether the OG effort was 2 dogs, or 4 dogs as apparently was quoted in the media.  Here is my take on this point.

Sorry, I cannot give the forum a definitive answer one way or the other.

Prior to the digs, I had little interest in the case, although I had read both Kate's book and Gonçalo's book.

It was my disbelief and anger that SY were digging up central Luz that got me started.  So at the time, I would rate my expertise on the case, on a scale of 0-10, as perhaps a 1.

I never thought to take pictures or video, which I definitely would now.

So I mainly wondered in amazement at the circus display.  We had GNR, PJ and SY.  We had dogs and horses.  We had guns.  We had helicopters, aeroplanes and at least one drone. We had media video and photography.  Teams from the UK and teams from Lisbon.  OG turned up with brand new shovels and pickaxes and learned these are useless for digging in the Algarve.  There was ground-penetrating radar and the ubiquitous two-stroke strimmer for clearing vegetation prior to fingertip searches.  There was a large combined control centre on the top of the mound.  There was another GNR control centre on 25 April street.

We lived for about 8 months on the urbanisation one can see beside the mound, the Paraíso (same name as the restaurant on the beach).  So I am familiar with the locale, and had walked across it many times. At the time of the dig I knew enough of the area to walk around the entire perimeter.

On 25 April Street was an Italian restaurant that my family and I have eaten in, called Amici (friends).  At one of these meals we were told a story which would become relevant in the dig.  I was having white fish in lemon sauce.  As the water served it, he said my potatoes were grown on an allotment on the land around mound.  Amici had agreed to exchange water required to grow the vegetables in exchange for a portion of the produce.

This suggests that one or more of Andy Redwood's 'anomalies' was simply due to a vegetable patch.

Since I was simply treating the dig as an amusement, as a circus, I didn't take detailed notes on anything.

I cannot remember seeing more than two dogs at any one time.  Of course, that does not preclude more than two being deployed simultaneously.  Nor does it preclude the dogs being deployed in shifts, to give them time off.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6311.msg283391#msg283391

Comments & media reports around that post should help clarify the situation for you.

Offline Erngath

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2017, 07:07:59 PM »
A question has been raised as to whether the OG effort was 2 dogs, or 4 dogs as apparently was quoted in the media.  Here is my take on this point.

Sorry, I cannot give the forum a definitive answer one way or the other.

Prior to the digs, I had little interest in the case, although I had read both Kate's book and Gonçalo's book.

It was my disbelief and anger that SY were digging up central Luz that got me started.  So at the time, I would rate my expertise on the case, on a scale of 0-10, as perhaps a 1.

I never thought to take pictures or video, which I definitely would now.

So I mainly wondered in amazement at the circus display.  We had GNR, PJ and SY.  We had dogs and horses.  We had guns.  We had helicopters, aeroplanes and at least one drone. We had media video and photography.  Teams from the UK and teams from Lisbon.  OG turned up with brand new shovels and pickaxes and learned these are useless for digging in the Algarve.  There was ground-penetrating radar and the ubiquitous two-stroke strimmer for clearing vegetation prior to fingertip searches.  There was a large combined control centre on the top of the mound.  There was another GNR control centre on 25 April street.

We lived for about 8 months on the urbanisation one can see beside the mound, the Paraíso (same name as the restaurant on the beach).  So I am familiar with the locale, and had walked across it many times. At the time of the dig I knew enough of the area to walk around the entire perimeter.

On 25 April Street was an Italian restaurant that my family and I have eaten in, called Amici (friends).  At one of these meals we were told a story which would become relevant in the dig.  I was having white fish in lemon sauce.  As the water served it, he said my potatoes were grown on an allotment on the land around mound.  Amici had agreed to exchange water required to grow the vegetables in exchange for a portion of the produce.

This suggests that one or more of Andy Redwood's 'anomalies' was simply due to a vegetable patch.

Since I was simply treating the dig as an amusement, as a circus, I didn't take detailed notes on anything.

I cannot remember seeing more than two dogs at any one time.  Of course, that does not preclude more than two being deployed simultaneously.  Nor does it preclude the dogs being deployed in shifts, to give them time off.


Perhaps with your local knowledge you may have treated the dig with amusement. I cannot say  I share your sense of humour.
I watched the footage of the dig and read the reports and hoped that nothing would indicate that Madeleine was dead.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2017, 07:20:43 PM »
And once again these dogs found nothing
That's why they had to be repeatedly called back
Because there was nothing to alert too
What you are implying is that if there were something the dogs may not react to it
May miss it unless brought back multiple times
That doesn't sound correct
'That doesn't sound correct' IYO is of no relevance.

I have seen the videos.  I have witnessed the dogs deployed in real life.

In real life, the handlers used more than one pass on a regular basis.

If you don't like this, provide something more reliable than your opinion.
What's up, old man?

Offline misty

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2017, 07:28:13 PM »
'That doesn't sound correct' IYO is of no relevance.

I have seen the videos.  I have witnessed the dogs deployed in real life.

In real life, the handlers used more than one pass on a regular basis.

If you don't like this, provide something more reliable than your opinion.

Did the dogs work in tandem - i.e. both checking the designated zones?

Offline Brietta

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 07:34:55 PM »
A question has been raised as to whether the OG effort was 2 dogs, or 4 dogs as apparently was quoted in the media.  Here is my take on this point.

Sorry, I cannot give the forum a definitive answer one way or the other.

Prior to the digs, I had little interest in the case, although I had read both Kate's book and Gonçalo's book.

It was my disbelief and anger that SY were digging up central Luz that got me started.  So at the time, I would rate my expertise on the case, on a scale of 0-10, as perhaps a 1.

I never thought to take pictures or video, which I definitely would now.

So I mainly wondered in amazement at the circus display.  We had GNR, PJ and SY.  We had dogs and horses.  We had guns.  We had helicopters, aeroplanes and at least one drone. We had media video and photography.  Teams from the UK and teams from Lisbon.  OG turned up with brand new shovels and pickaxes and learned these are useless for digging in the Algarve.  There was ground-penetrating radar and the ubiquitous two-stroke strimmer for clearing vegetation prior to fingertip searches.  There was a large combined control centre on the top of the mound.  There was another GNR control centre on 25 April street.

We lived for about 8 months on the urbanisation one can see beside the mound, the Paraíso (same name as the restaurant on the beach).  So I am familiar with the locale, and had walked across it many times. At the time of the dig I knew enough of the area to walk around the entire perimeter.

On 25 April Street was an Italian restaurant that my family and I have eaten in, called Amici (friends).  At one of these meals we were told a story which would become relevant in the dig.  I was having white fish in lemon sauce.  As the water served it, he said my potatoes were grown on an allotment on the land around mound.  Amici had agreed to exchange water required to grow the vegetables in exchange for a portion of the produce.

This suggests that one or more of Andy Redwood's 'anomalies' was simply due to a vegetable patch.

Since I was simply treating the dig as an amusement, as a circus, I didn't take detailed notes on anything.

I cannot remember seeing more than two dogs at any one time.  Of course, that does not preclude more than two being deployed simultaneously.  Nor does it preclude the dogs being deployed in shifts, to give them time off.

There is the difference;  while you were being amused my thoughts and I know the thoughts of others were with the family existing on tenterhooks that the remains of their beloved child might be dug up.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 07:49:21 PM »

Perhaps with your local knowledge you may have treated the dig with amusement. I cannot say  I share your sense of humour.
I watched the footage of the dig and read the reports and hoped that nothing would indicate that Madeleine was dead.
The word in Portuguese is divertido - a diversion in the sense of amusement.

Since I knew in advance why it was extremely unlikely they were likely to find anything there, why should I have been expected to treat it as anything other than a farce?

It is on the main road from the west into Luz.

It has a road running through it that happens to be an integral part of the one-way system.
  It happens to be 2-way, but it is important in getting out of the 1-way system on Rua Calhete.  That is the Bull, Kelly's, Fernando's and the Dolphin, all of them popular.

I knew that it is nigh-well impossible to dig any grave in Luz by hand.  Some small holes are dug by hand.  It takes hours and it is extremely noisy.

The plot is beside two large complexes and numerous smaller housing units.  It is not out in the sticks or away from people.  Digging was a no-no.

The OG dig fell at the first hurdle, because of complete ignorance of Luz.

Most locals' views that I know of were incandescent.  Many of these were aired at the time.

I had not suffered 7 years of unrelenting s***e on this, as many here had.

I simply knew enough to know that OG were making utter fools of themselves.

You have conceded you were ignorant of local knowledge.  Kindly do not tell me, or by inference those locals with a detailed knowledge of Luz, how I/we should have felt, based upon your ignorance of the locality.



What's up, old man?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 08:05:37 PM »
The dog alerts are still relevant is a case that is still open and Smithman is number one suspect. You have to be a bit slow to not know the score. Amaral is not slow. 8,600+ sightings and zero MM evidence. Not a surprise! If they get to 20,000 sightings it will be the same zero result.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 07:07:59 PM by John »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline misty

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 08:07:48 PM »
@Shining

I thought locals said animals had been previously buried in the location OG searched?

Offline Brietta

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 08:14:49 PM »
The word in Portuguese is divertido - a diversion in the sense of amusement.

Since I knew in advance why it was extremely unlikely they were likely to find anything there, why should I have been expected to treat it as anything other than a farce?

It is on the main road from the west into Luz.

It has a road running through it that happens to be an integral part of the one-way system.
  It happens to be 2-way, but it is important in getting out of the 1-way system on Rua Calhete.  That is the Bull, Kelly's, Fernando's and the Dolphin, all of them popular.

I knew that it is nigh-well impossible to dig any grave in Luz by hand.  Some small holes are dug by hand.  It takes hours and it is extremely noisy.

The plot is beside two large complexes and numerous smaller housing units.  It is not out in the sticks or away from people.  Digging was a no-no.

The OG dig fell at the first hurdle, because of complete ignorance of Luz.

Most locals' views that I know of were incandescent.  Many of these were aired at the time.

I had not suffered 7 years of unrelenting s***e on this, as many here had.

I simply knew enough to know that OG were making utter fools of themselves.

You have conceded you were ignorant of local knowledge.  Kindly do not tell me, or by inference those locals with a detailed knowledge of Luz, how I/we should have felt, based upon your ignorance of the locality.
How do they manage to grow potatoes commercially on the mound which you say is impervious to the use of manual digging implements?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2017, 08:16:57 PM »
How do they manage to grow potatoes commercially on the mound which you say is impervious to the use of manual digging implements?

With a pneumatic drill, silly ....

ETA: Sharp spot

 8((()*/
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 08:19:46 PM by ferryman »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2017, 08:17:43 PM »
Amaral didn't even understand Mark Harrison's report.

And the Smiths long ago recanted of the belief that the man they saw might be Gerry.

Amaral was working with Mark Harrison on the case. You didn't work with him and you haven't talked to Martin Grime about his dog Morse nor talked to the Smiths about the sighting.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 08:20:29 PM by stephen25000 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Lace

Re: Luz on the digs and searches on the Mound in Praia da Luz.
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2017, 08:27:45 PM »
So what particular thing did you see that was so fascinating?  You said you didn't see them search inside the house, so all you saw was the dog going in.   We saw Eddie searching the apartments and the cars.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 07:11:32 PM by John »