Are 'supporters' justified in their vilification of JM?

[adam]

As far as I'm concerned JM is a small bit player in the grand scheme of things.

I dont recall JM making ref to the bike in her WS other than saying she would like it when JB asked her if she wanted anything from the house?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1647

Page 10.

Do you think it was a coincidence thar Bamber brought a bike to his cottage just before the massacre ?

Talk about an open goal for Julie & bad luck for Bamber.

[Holly Goodhead]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1647

Page 10.

Do you think it was a coincidence thar Bamber brought a bike to his cottage just before the massacre ?

Talk about an open goal for Julie & bad luck for Bamber.

Thanks Adam.  The typed versions on this forum don't seem to tie in with the above link?  Page 10 of JM's 8/9 WS doesn't make ref to the bike?  I will look into this later time permitting.

In any event in answer to your Q yes I think June's bike at JB's cottage was there for the reason JB claimed ie for JM's use when she was hanging out at JB's.  Whatever JB did or didn't do in the lead up to the tragedy could be picked off and meshed into a JB dunnit scenario.  This is the reason I prefer to home in on aspects of the case that have some scientific basis:

Ballistics
Blood staining
Casings
Distance of shots
Hand swabs
Pathological evidence
Psychological and psychiatric evidence
Wound tracks and trajectories

[adam]

From the OS -

'The bicycle belonged to Jeremy's mother, but it had been brought to Jeremy’s house for Julie Mugford to use, so that she could cycle from Goldhanger to Toleshunt D'arcy, leaving the bike at the Red Lion Pub. She would then get the Osbourne's bus which runs from Tollesbury to Colchester.'

A very strange & unbelievable reason. But June obviously approved of Bamber's romantic jesture.

It was just bad luck & a coincidence Bamber brought the bike to his cottage just before the massacre.

[Holly Goodhead]

From the OS -

'The bicycle belonged to Jeremy's mother, but it had been brought to Jeremy’s house for Julie Mugford to use, so that she could cycle from Goldhanger to Toleshunt D'arcy, leaving the bike at the Red Lion Pub. She would then get the Osbourne's bus which runs from Tollesbury to Colchester.'

A very strange & unbelievable reason. But June obviously approved of Bamber's romantic jesture.

It was just bad luck & a coincidence Bamber brought the bike to his cottage just before the massacre.

Why do you think it is "strange & unbelievable"?  I don't know whether or not JM was able to drive but she certainly didn't have access to a car.  If JM was at JB's cottage during term time (it was the summer break) and JB was working then a bike was surely a convenient and practical means of transporting herself to the nearest bus route to Colchester where her mother lived?  Maybe she had other reasons for wanting to visit Colchester: holiday work? friends? more going on etc.

Goldhanger is a sleepy village with very limited links to public transport:

http://www.goldhanger.org.uk/buses.php

I thought it was a case that June had purchased the bike but didn't get on with it?  Isn't there some testimony from BW to this effect along the lines June said there was some problem with it and JB tested it and said it was ok?  Whilst he did this, according to BW, he also took the opportunity to annoy June by circling her and pulling up short in front of her?

The bike was forensically examined and nothing incriminating was found although I accept JB had the opportunity to clean it up in the interim.

[Holly Goodhead]

Here's the timetable for buses from Red Lion, Tolleshunt D'arcy to Colchester:

https://bustimes.org.uk/services/set_5-92-E-y08

It's 3 miles from Goldhanger to the Red Lion pub and then a 30 min bus ride to Colchester with a slightly longer journey time on the return journey.  All seems entirely normal and plausible to my mind.

http://www.theaa.com/route-planner/index.jsp#fromNode=0%7CGoldhanger,%20Maldon%20CM9,%20UK%7C%7C0.744984%7C51.749615%7CtoNode=0%7CTolleshunt%20D%27Arcy,%20Maldon%20CM9,%20UK%7C%7C0.794998%7C51.771637

[Holly Goodhead]

I wonder if Mary Mugford's court testimony covered the bike ie a means for JM to travel to Colchester?  (The name Mary Mugford always reminds me of my fave children's tv prog: Mary, Mungo and Midge.  The BBC at its absolute best  ).

[Holly Goodhead]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1647

Page 10.

Do you think it was a coincidence thar Bamber brought a bike to his cottage just before the massacre ?

Talk about an open goal for Julie & bad luck for Bamber.

I've found it now.  It's page 9 of the typed stats.  I think I was getting confused with the fact that although JM outlines a MM scenario this doesn't include how he got to and from the farm or mention the bike.

I vaguely recall reading some handwritten ws's on Blue.  Hartley states the grammar, spelling and handwriting is poor which makes me wonder whether JM was the author:  grammar school, uni, teacher training and has risen through the ranks of Canada's education system to a senior role.  Her diary entries supposedly in her own fair hand are legible.   

[John]

I've found it now.  It's page 9 of the typed stats.  I think I was getting confused with the fact that although JM outlines a MM scenario this doesn't include how he got to and from the farm or mention the bike.

I vaguely recall reading some handwritten ws's on Blue.  Hartley states the grammar, spelling and handwriting is poor which makes me wonder whether JM was the author:  grammar school, uni, teacher training and has risen through the ranks of Canada's education system to a senior role.  Her diary entries supposedly in her own fair hand are legible.

The thing about statements is that the wording is not a verbatim representation of anything a witness has to say as they are often scribed in police lingo and later edited.  Witnesses are always asked to read their statements before signing to ensure that what is recorded is correct.  If it isn't correct it will be edited as necessary and then the witness asked to sign.

The only time a statement should be relied upon in court is if the witness was unable to testify personally, in such case the statement is converted to a sworn affidavit.

[Holly Goodhead]

The thing about statements is that the wording is not a verbatim representation of anything a witness has to say as they are often scribed in police lingo and later edited.  Witnesses are always asked to read their statements before signing to ensure that what is recorded is correct.  If it isn't correct it will be edited as necessary and then the witness asked to sign.

The only time a statement should be relied upon in court is if the witness was unable to testify personally, in such case the statement is converted to a sworn affidavit.

Thanks John.  I wrongly assumed a police officer would say something like tell us everything from the beginning and away the witness goes with pen in hand.  But what you're saying is the officer will elicit info from the witness and make notes.  These notes are then put into some sort of coherent narrative and typed up.  The witness is then asked to read and confirm the contents are correct by signing. 

[adam]

Why do you think it is "strange & unbelievable"?  I don't know whether or not JM was able to drive but she certainly didn't have access to a car.  If JM was at JB's cottage during term time (it was the summer break) and JB was working then a bike was surely a convenient and practical means of transporting herself to the nearest bus route to Colchester where her mother lived?  Maybe she had other reasons for wanting to visit Colchester: holiday work? friends? more going on etc.

Goldhanger is a sleepy village with very limited links to public transport:

http://www.goldhanger.org.uk/buses.php

I thought it was a case that June had purchased the bike but didn't get on with it?  Isn't there some testimony from BW to this effect along the lines June said there was some problem with it and JB tested it and said it was ok?  Whilst he did this, according to BW, he also took the opportunity to annoy June by circling her and pulling up short in front of her?

The bike was forensically examined and nothing incriminating was found although I accept JB had the opportunity to clean it up in the interim.

It is  very strange & unbelievable. I know of no other such arrangement between boyfriend & girlfriend. And never will do. Do you ? But appreciate supporters have to support Bamber's weird counter reason.

Bamber could have at least paid for a taxi if in the unlikely event he couldn't drive her to a train station. Or Julie could have paid herself. Cycling, lol.

Or Bamber could have driven Julie from WHF to a train station if he was working & couldn't drive back to his cottage to collect her. I assume Julie was allowed to spend time at WHF if Bamber was working there. Otherwise a bit pointless her visiting.

Would Julie not visit Bamber when he was not working ? Or did she just hang around on her own until Bamber finished work every night ?

Whatever, I'm sure two adults Bamber & Julie between them could have arranged a short lift to a train station.

Both guilters & supporters agree Bamber was very unlucky that he brough the bike over just before the massacre. Leaving an open goal for everyone. Which everyone scored from.

[Holly Goodhead]

It is  very strange & unbelievable. I know of no other such arrangement between boyfriend & girlfriend. And never will do. Do you ? But appreciate supporters have to support Bamber's weird counter reason.

Bamber could have at least paid for a taxi if in the unlikely event he couldn't drive her to a train station. Or Julie could have paid herself.

Or Bamber could have driven Julie from WHF to a train station if he was working & couldn't drive back to his cottage to collect her. I assume Julie was allowed to spend time at WHF if Bamber was working there. Otherwise a bit pointless her visiting.

Would Julie not visit Bamber when he was not working ? Or did she just hang around on her own until Bamber finished work every night ?

Whatever, I'm sure two adults Bamber & Julie between them could have arranged a short lift to a train station.

Both guilters & supporters agree Bamber was very unlucky that he brough the bike over just before the massacre. Leaving an open goal for everyone. Which everyone scored from.

If the bike hadn't been found at JB's then I'm sure all those who argued JB cycled would revert to walking. 

JB did take JM to the train station when she returned to London.  I understand the bike was simply a means of getting around the local area whilst she was staying at JB's and he was working.  Students use bikes and public transport to get around on. 

One of her ws's refers to NB picking her up from a bus stop. 

I don't see anything remotely suspicious here:

- JM was at teacher training college with long hols
- JB was working during the day and it would be unreasonable for him to down tools on the farm to ferry JM about on non-essential trips
- Goldhanger is a sleepy village with very limited public transport

[adam]

If the bike hadn't been found at JB's then I'm sure all those who argued JB cycled would revert to walking. 

JB did take JM to the train station when she returned to London.  I understand the bike was simply a means of getting around the local area whilst she was staying at JB's and he was working.  Students use bikes and public transport to get around on. 

One of her ws's refers to NB picking her up from a bus stop. 

I don't see anything remotely suspicious here:

- JM was at teacher training college with long hols
- JB was working during the day and it would be unreasonable for him to down tools on the farm to ferry JM about on non-essential trips
- Goldhanger is a sleepy village with very limited public transport

So you are not aware of anything similar ?

Non essential trip ? It was one lift to the station when Julie was going home. Would have been nice for Bamber to give her a lift after she made the effort to visit him.

I don't agree with Nugs that Bamber would have got lost to/from WHF. Or with David that it would take 30 minutes longer to walk 3 miles in the dark, or it would take Bamber 100 minutes to walk to WHF. 

So it was also possible to walk to/from WHF. But having a bike made it a lot easier & quicker. Meaning Bamber could leave his cottage later & would have more time to complete things at WHF. A reduced travelling time outside also means less chance of being seen.

[Holly Goodhead]

So you are not aware of anything similar ?

Non essential trip ? It was one lift to the station when Julie was going home. Would have been nice for Bamber to give her a lift after she made the effort to visit him.

I don't agree with Nugs that Bamber would have got lost to/from WHF. Or with David that it would take 30 minutes longer to walk 3 miles in the dark, or it would take Bamber 100 minutes to walk to WHF. 

So it was also possible to walk to/from WHF. But having a bike made it a lot easier & quicker. Meaning Bamber could leave his cottage later & would have more time to complete things at WHF. A reduced travelling time outside also means less chance of being seen.

Similar to what?  JB taking June's bike for JM's use whilst she was effectively stranded in Goldhanger is to my mind an entirely 'normal' domestic arrangement.  According to JM's WS she even asked for the bike when JB offered her anything from the house.  This was after she discussed JB's 'involvement' with SB and LR.     

As I understand it the intended purpose of the bike was a means for JM getting about on whilst staying at Goldhanger when JB was working.  When she returned to London by train JB dropped her off at the station.

The fact the bike even forms part of the case against JB is in itself telling of the investigation and judicial process when there's so much untapped forensic evidence. 

[APRIL]

Similar to what?  JB taking June's bike for JM's use whilst she was effectively stranded in Goldhanger is to my mind an entirely 'normal' domestic arrangement.  According to JM's WS she even asked for the bike when JB offered her anything from the house.  This was after she discussed JB's 'involvement' with SB and LR.     

As I understand it the intended purpose of the bike was a means for JM getting about on whilst staying at Goldhanger when JB was working.  When she returned to London by train JB dropped her off at the station.

The fact the bike even forms part of the case against JB is in itself telling of the investigation and judicial process when there's so much untapped forensic evidence.

I know the bike was allegedly there for Julie's use, but the last time I was there -in Goldhanger- I came back via Totham. As I turned off the main road, ALMOST adjacent Church Road, I noticed Maldon Growers(?) Is that not where Julie had a summer job? It's easily withing walking distance of Jeremy's cottage................HOWEVER, cycling from Goldhanger to the Queen's Head in D'Arcy would have meant taking her life in her hands!!! If the bike was never used, it wouldn't come as a surprise!

[Holly Goodhead]

I know the bike was allegedly there for Julie's use, but the last time I was there -in Goldhanger- I came back via Totham. As I turned off the main road, ALMOST adjacent Church Road, I noticed Maldon Growers(?) Is that not where Julie had a summer job? It's easily withing walking distance of Jeremy's cottage................HOWEVER, cycling from Goldhanger to the Queen's Head in D'Arcy would have meant taking her life in her hands!!! If the bike was never used, it wouldn't come as a surprise!

JM's WS's state she worked at North Maldon Growers (NMG) but I don't believe it was in the lead up to the tragedy?  The AA route planner shows the journey time from Head St to NMG as 1.1 miles which I would find very walkable but some people just don't like walking.

I visited the area some 4 years ago and found the roads very quiet although quite winding in places.  I would imagine 32 years they were even quieter?

JB transported the bike from WHF to his cottage around the start of the academic summer break which obviously coincides with the tragedy so can be viewed either way.  If JM planned to spend some, most or all of the time at JB's and wasn't working then what would she do all day stranded in Goldhanger?  Depends what she was into I guess as to how she could amuse herself or send herself stir crazy and whether or not she was happy with her own company.         

Personally I think the bike is unremarkable.  Had such a case been heard in the US the emphasis would be on the ballistics evidence, other evidence at soc eg blood stain analysis, pathological and psychological evidence.