Have we learnt anything from the Maddie case?

[Robittybob1]

if you claim it is fact could you provide  link to the posts..a cite is required  .....im quite sceptical

It is a whole section of the thread centred on around this post.  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7862.msg375570#msg375570

[Mr Gray]

It is a whole section of the thread centred on around this post.  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7862.msg375570#msg375570

There is nothing there that shows exactly where the sample was taken from......

[Mr Gray]

There is nothing there that shows exactly where the sample was taken from......it simply states...it is understood that....there is no confirmation

[Robittybob1]

There is nothing there that shows exactly where the sample was taken from......it simply states...it is understood that....there is no confirmation

That is about as good as you get in this case.  Nothing is defined precisely.

[Mr Gray]

That is about as good as you get in this case.  Nothing is defined precisely.

So we don't know that the sample was taken from the underside...just someone has claimed....

[Robittybob1]

So we don't know that the sample was taken from the underside...just someone has claimed....

No claims to the contrary so what does that tell you?

[Mr Gray]

No claims to the contrary so what does that tell you?

You claimed in post 280 you knew where it came from

[Robittybob1]

You claimed in post 280 you knew where it came from

Do you know it any different?   I'm here learning about this case and if you know where it came from tell me please.

[Mr Gray]

Do you know it any different?   I'm here learning about this case and if you know where it came from tell me please.

You are the one claiming you know where it came from....the files say  keela alerted in the boot....that's it.....

[Brietta]

You are the one claiming you know where it came from....the files day keela alerted in the boot....that's it.....

In the video we have seen of Keela in the boot we saw her assuming her trained alert response.  If I remember correctly, that was once the carpet had been removed.  I don't think any further knowledge could have been gained as far as we are concerned without knowing the sequence in which the shots had been taken including frame by frame enumeration.

Without that I don't think they are the basis for any firm conclusion.

[Mr Gray]

The search results obtained from the GNR tracker dogs, the CSI dog and the EVRD constitute evidence in the Madeleine McCann case.  However, without further corroborative or informative evidence the significance of that evidence remains unknown.

It should also be pointed out that the tracker dogs finds and the CSI/EVRD alerts appear to be mutually exclusive in that they can't all relate to Madeleine.  Or to put it another way, she couldn't have died in 5a and still walked out of it.

martin grime confirms that the alerts cannot be classed as evidence unless corroborated....so the cadaver alerts cannot be classsed as evidence according to grime




The dogs only alerted to property associated with the McCann family. The dog
alert indications MUST be corroborated if to establish their findings as
evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

[Angelo222]

martin grime confirms that the alerts cannot be classed as evidence unless corroborated....so the cadaver alerts cannot be classsed as evidence according to grime




The dogs only alerted to property associated with the McCann family. The dog
alert indications MUST be corroborated if to establish their findings as
evidence.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Desperation personified?  Round and round the mulberry bush we go.

Martin Grime did not state that the dog alerts couldn't be classified as evidence because to do so would have been a nonsense.  You obviously don't understand what police consider to be evidence.

All he in fact did state was that in the absence of FURTHER corroborative evidence, the alerts had no evidential reliability.  The dog findings all constitute evidence but cannot yet be relied upon to prove anything. Ergo, if further evidence is found which corroborates the dog evidence then that would be significant.

[Mr Gray]

Desperation personified?  Round and round the mulberry bush we go.

Martin Grime did not state that the dog alerts couldn't be classified as evidence because to do so would have been a nonsense.  You obviously don't understand what police consider to be evidence.

All he in fact did state was that in the absence of FURTHER corroborative evidence, the alerts had no evidential reliability.  The dog findings all constitute evidence but cannot yet be relied upon to prove anything. Ergo, if further evidence is found which corroborates the dog evidence then that would be significant.

Martin Grime did state the alerts cannot be classed as evidence..That is EXACTLY  what he said.....here you are again..

The dogs only alerted to property associated with the McCann family. The dog
alert indications MUST be corroborated if to establish their findings as
evidence.

its very clear but you and others want to ignore it,...grimes statement above is evidence...the alerts according to grime are not...that is not a nonsense...that is a fact

[Robittybob1]

You are the one claiming you know where it came from....the files say  keela alerted in the boot....that's it.....

Carana and I (and others) had worked out in the DNA thread that at the time the CSI dog Keela had been put into the boot of the car the mats had already been removed so if they sent the whole mat to the lab (which they did) we don't  see Keela point to a specific part of the mat for it had already been removed. She points to a position in the boot which the PJ then corresponds to a position on the mat.

[Mr Gray]

Carana and I (and others) had worked out in the DNA thread that at the time the CSI dog Keela had been put into the boot of the car the mats had already been removed so if they sent the whole mat to the lab (which they did) we don't  see Keela point to a specific part of the mat for it had already been removed. She points to a position in the boot which the PJ then corresponds to a position on the mat.

I've looked back at the posts you have quoted and just don't see that...simply people saying it is understood....and a source says....that is not confirmation of anything