JB's next CCRC submission/CoA hearing...

[Holly Goodhead]

Sorry, I should have made it clear that the help I referred to did not take place on the night of the murders.

And as already pointed out previously the bullet casings in the master bedroom would not have ended up where they were found had the shooter been in the bedroom shooting towards the landing.  For the casings to end up where they did, the shooter had to be in the bedroom or on the door threshold firing into the bedroom.

The casings are a small part of a shooting reconstruction.  They are not an exact science as obviously many random variables influence the found position eg accidetal movement by victims, perp, police officers and hitting objects and then bouncing and rolling.  IMO the casings do not support NB sustaining his upstairs gsw's in the so-called main bedroom.  The lack of bloodstains, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks will IMO in the 'final analysis' (by Prudence Cellalot) prove NB was shot whilst he was stood on the landing facing the main bedroom.  Had the tragedy happened in US a shooting reconstruction would feature centre stage at trial. At JB's trial it was limited to Lawson asking Fletcher if anyone was shot outside the main bedroom with Fletcher answering no.  This is Fletcher "small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy".   

[Holly Goodhead]

I would have said that "a working knowledge of firearms" is likely to create more expert knowledge than theory alone. If nothing else, it would enhance the theory.

It may well be that his degree didn't fully cover ballistics. He MAY have had to gain experience 'on the job', in which case, personal interest would have been beneficial.

I feel certain that if we were to examine, closely, the qualifications of ALL individual professionals involved in the case, we'd find SOMETHING lacking. However, I wonder how much that would have mattered if Jeremy had got off?

As I said above if you read the trial testimonies of other expert witnesses:

- Glynis Howard
- John Hayward
- Dr Vanezis
- Prof Knight

I think you will agree there's a stark contrast in their openings and introduction to the court by way of outlining academic qualifications, membership of professional bodies and relevant experience.  I haven't read testimonies from other experts eg Dr Bradley, Dr Craig and Brian Elliot but I wouldn't mind betting Fletcher is the odd person out.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/legal_guidance/expert_evidence_first_edition_2014.pdf

[Holly Goodhead]

They didn't ALL lose their lives, Bamber survived.

I think you are doing this man a disservice and using his quote about the air rifle to define his career. I think you're better than this Holly! 

JB as defendant can hardly be counted upon as an independent witness to the crime. 

Malcolm Fletcher's testimony was arguably the most important to the prosecution and yet there's no evidence based on his trial testimony that he was appropriately qualified and experienced to act as an expert witness and testify. 

Unlike some 'supporters' I have not criticised other experts (excl lawyers and judges) as I've no reason to believe they were anything other than credible and reliable expert witnesses appropriately experienced and qualified to provide expert evidence to the court.

I just can't get my head round why a scientist/expert witness testifying in a court of law in England involving mass murder by shooting would introduce himself by including:

"A small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy".

We know FSS failed on quality during the 80's so was all this part of it?

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmsctech/writev/forensic/m61.htm

[Caroline]

JB as defendant can hardly be counted upon as an independent witness to the crime. 

Malcolm Fletcher's testimony was arguably the most important to the prosecution and yet there's no evidence based on his trial testimony that he was appropriately qualified and experienced to act as an expert witness and testify. 

Unlike some 'supporters' I have not criticised other experts (excl lawyers and judges) as I've no reason to believe they were anything other than credible and reliable expert witnesses appropriately experienced and qualified to provide expert evidence to the court.

I just can't get my head round why a scientist/expert witness testifying in a court of law in England involving mass murder by shooting would introduce himself by including:

"A small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy".

We know FSS failed on quality during the 80's so was all this part of it?

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmsctech/writev/forensic/m61.htm

His career is described as.

"Professional Background
Between 1964 and 2003 Malcolm worked at the Forensic Science Service (Nottingham, Huntingdon, Met Lab, Manchester (NFU) rising to Senior Scientific Officer.  From 1964 to 1974 he worked as an assistant in a variety of departments.  From 1974 to retirement he specialised in firearms, ammunition and forensic ballistics."

He didn't get any of those jobs due to "A small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy"

[John]

The casings are a small part of a shooting reconstruction.  They are not an exact science as obviously many random variables influence the found position eg accidetal movement by victims, perp, police officers and hitting objects and then bouncing and rolling.  IMO the casings do not support NB sustaining his upstairs gsw's in the so-called main bedroom.  The lack of bloodstains, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks will IMO in the 'final analysis' (by Prudence Cellalot) prove NB was shot whilst he was stood on the landing facing the main bedroom.  Had the tragedy happened in US a shooting reconstruction would feature centre stage at trial. At JB's trial it was limited to Lawson asking Fletcher if anyone was shot outside the main bedroom with Fletcher answering no.  This is Fletcher "small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy".   

When a SOCO examines a crimescene he looks for the most likely scenario.  If a semi automatic .22 Anschutz rifle is discharged the shells are ejected in a particular manner, forward and to the right, the ejections are not random.  When multiple shots are discharged in an enclosed space the empty casings will fall more or less in the same area depending on the direction the rifle is pointed.  When the casings are clumped together as they were in the master bedroom at White House Farm then the position of the shooter and the direction the rifle was pointing can be very accurately determined.  The chances of all these empty casings landing where they did by shear accident is pretty slim as is the suggestion that they were all trod on or kicked about again either by accident or by design. I can assure you that police officers and especially firearms officers are trained not to move bullet casings.

Consequently, like it or not, the empty shell casings very accurately indicate June being shot as she lay in bed and after getting to her feet.  They also indicate that the shooter attempted to enter the bedroom and shot Nevill several times from the location of the bedroom door.  No other scenario fits exactly with this evidence.

[Holly Goodhead]

His career is described as.

"Professional Background
Between 1964 and 2003 Malcolm worked at the Forensic Science Service (Nottingham, Huntingdon, Met Lab, Manchester (NFU) rising to Senior Scientific Officer.  From 1964 to 1974 he worked as an assistant in a variety of departments.  From 1974 to retirement he specialised in firearms, ammunition and forensic ballistics."

He didn't get any of those jobs due to "A small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy"

Yes:

http://www.csofs.org/Malcolm-Fletcher

So why advise the court at JB's trial his relevant experience included: "A small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy"? 

In addition to his experience with an air rifle as a boy he talked about 13 years experience in the firearms department at various FSS sites.  What exactly did this experience cover?  I very much doubt it qualified him to provide testimony which ventured into the complex world of the pathology of gunshot wounds and 'drawback'. 

Much of Fletcher's testimony contradicts my own investigations and research drawing on the findings from the likes of Prof Herb MacDonell and Dr Vincent DiMaio. 

[Holly Goodhead]

When a SOCO examines a crimescene he looks for the most likely scenario.  If a semi automatic .22 Anschutz rifle is discharged the shells are ejected in a particular manner, forward and to the right, the ejections are not random.  When multiple shots are discharged in an enclosed space the empty casings will fall more or less in the same area depending on the direction the rifle is pointed.  When the casings are clumped together as they were in the master bedroom at White House Farm then the position of the shooter and the direction the rifle was pointing can be very accurately determined.  The chances of all these empty casings landing where they did by shear accident is pretty slim as is the suggestion that they were all trod on or kicked about again either by accident or by design. I can assure you that police officers and especially firearms officers are trained not to move bullet casings.

Consequently, like it or not, the empty shell casings very accurately indicate June being shot as she lay in bed and after getting to her feet.  They also indicate that the shooter attempted to enter the bedroom and shot Nevill several times from the location of the bedroom door.  No other scenario fits exactly with this evidence.

The casings were not all clumped together.  Excl the two which clearly pertain to SC, 8 were found June's side of the bed either on it or on the floor June's side, 2 were found near the door, 1 on the transition strip and a further 1 on the landing.  Tests show 25% of casings are found in locations outside areas they would be expected based on casing ejection pattern alone:

http://www.forcescience.org/articles/ShellCasingStudy.pdf

Absence of NB's blood in the bedroom and the downward trajectories of the gsw's to NB's lip and jaw support the theory NB sustained these gsw's facing the main bedroom whilst stood on the landing stairs.

The only expert evidence to date in this regard amounts to Lawson asking Fletcher if any victim sustained upstairs gsw's outside the main bedroom and Fletcher replied no.  For those that view Fletcher as a credible and reliable expert witness there's your answer but it's not one I'm going to rely on.

[Caroline]

Yes:

http://www.csofs.org/Malcolm-Fletcher

So why advise the court at JB's trial his relevant experience included: "A small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy"? 

In addition to his experience with an air rifle as a boy he talked about 13 years experience in the firearms department at various FSS sites.  What exactly did this experience cover?  I very much doubt it qualified him to provide testimony which ventured into the complex world of the pathology of gunshot wounds and 'drawback'. 

Much of Fletcher's testimony contradicts my own investigations and research drawing on the findings from the likes of Prof Herb MacDonell and Dr Vincent DiMaio.

But you aren't an expert, not even close so why do you imagine your research would or should be taken more seriously than his?

Perhaps he mentioned the air rifle to show just how many years he'd been interested in guns and ballistics but that certainly wasn't the sum total of the mans qualifications and experience? How would you define your own credentials on the subject?

[Holly Goodhead]

But you aren't an expert, not even close so why do you imagine your research would or should be taken more seriously than his?

Perhaps he mentioned the air rifle to show just how many years he'd been interested in guns and ballistics but that certainly wasn't the sum total of the mans qualifications and experience? How would you define your own credentials on the subject?

I don't need to be an expert to read forensic textbooks by the likes of Dr Vincent DiMaio and understand that his experiences, research and test results contradict Malcolm Fletcher's trial testimony. 

Who do I find the most credible and reliable:

Dr Vincent DiMaio

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Di_Maio

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gunshot-Wounds-Ballistics-Techniques-Investigations/dp/0849381630


- V -

Malcolm Fletcher

"Small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy"

If MF had qualifications relevant to ballistics and forensic pathology of gunshot wounds then why not share such detail with the court as all the other expert witnesses did.  Why fall back on "A small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy".  

All Fletcher was able to tell the court was that he had 13 years experience working in the firearms dept at various FSS sites.  What exactly did this entail and how did it qualify him to provide testimony at JB's trial on:

- blood distribution from gsw's
- the 'drawback' mechanism 
- victims' location by way of identifying which rooms victims were shot in

Lots of people have nurtured passionate interests since childhood but it doesn't make them experts.  

For all we know Mike might have been passionately interested in astronomy since childhood but it doesn't make him an expert.  And judging by his planet earth is flat theory I think we can safely say he isn't an expert!   

[Caroline]

I don't need to be an expert to read forensic textbooks by the likes of Dr Vincent DiMaio and understand that his experiences, research and test results contradict Malcolm Fletcher's trial testimony.

Who do I find the most credible and reliable:

Dr Vincent DiMaio

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Di_Maio

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gunshot-Wounds-Ballistics-Techniques-Investigations/dp/0849381630


- V -

Malcolm Fletcher

"Small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy"

If MF had qualifications relevant to ballistics and forensic pathology of gunshot wounds then why not share such detail with the court as all the other expert witnesses did.  Why fall back on "A small amount of experience of having an air rifle as a small boy". 

All Fletcher was able to tell the court was that he had 13 years experience working in the firearms dept at various FSS sites.  What exactly did this entail and how did it qualify him to provide testimony at JB's trial on:

- blood distribution from gsw's
- the 'drawback' mechanism
- victims' location by way of identifying which rooms victims were shot in

Lots of people have nurtured passionate interests since childhood but it doesn't make them experts. 

For all we know Mike might have been passionately interested in astronomy since childhood but it doesn't make him an expert.  And judging by his planet earth is flat theory I think we can safely say he isn't an expert!   

Dr Vincent DiMaio didn't have first hand experience of the case material.

Fletcher didn't JUST nurture and 'interest'!

If this is how you're intending to approach a submission you WILL fall at the first hurdle.

[Holly Goodhead]

Dr Vincent DiMaio didn't have first hand experience of the case material.

Fletcher didn't JUST nurture and 'interest'!

If this is how you're intending to approach a submission you WILL fall at the first hurdle.

The following vid runs for just over 30 minutes where Dr Vincent Di Maio advises the court on his qualifications and experience in order to testify at the trial of George Zimmerman:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab2h2ceC5ic

What a contrast with our Malcolm Fletcher:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8955.0;attach=12168

VDM is asked if he has ever been involved in cases in UK he gives 2 examples including 'Bloody Sunday'.  With the UK's low rates of gun crime I've often asked why JB's defence didn't seek out experts from US.  Did Kingsley Napley put profit before justice?  It was the firms first case funded by legal aid. 

[Caroline]

The following vid runs for just over 30 minutes where Dr Vincent Di Maio advises the court on his qualifications and experience in order to testify at the trial of George Zimmerman:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab2h2ceC5ic

What a contrast with our Malcolm Fletcher:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8955.0;attach=12168

VDM is asked if he has ever been involved in cases in UK he gives 2 examples including 'Bloody Sunday'.  With the UK's low rates of gun crime I've often asked why JB's defence didn't seek out experts from US.  Did Kingsley Napley put profit before justice?  It was the firms first case funded by legal aid.

I didn't say VDM didn't have qualifications, I'm sure he has lots of experience but he didn't investigate the Bamber case whereas Fletcher did.

[puglove]

Holl, I know that you've done your homework, visited a gun shop, fannied around with some bullets....but have you tried to aim and shoot the gun in question? Bearing in mind that Sheila had never handled that gun before? I've said before that BT has the exact same gun (he has many guns), he gave me a go to shoot at the magpies that raid the swallow nests in the stables. He might as well have given me a giant parsnip. It's not a big gun, but it's heavy, unbalanced and unwieldy, by the time I'd got it into position the magpies had died of old age.

Whoever shot the Bamber family had used a gun before.... they obviously underestimated the power of it, but they could hold it steady, point it, fire it and...most importantly, reload it.

[puglove]

Holl, I'll be back next week, taking the piss out of Nelly's moptop. Try the scampi.

And don't forget that the Earth is flat. For Bamber to be innocent, we all have to live in an alternative universe. Where fairies live by the dustbins, and Lord Lucan canters gently by on Shergar, while Rolf Harris and Gary Glitter run a super-doop  nursery.

 

[Caroline]

Holl, I know that you've done your homework, visited a gun shop, fannied around with some bullets....but have you tried to aim and shoot the gun in question? Bearing in mind that Sheila had never handled that gun before? I've said before that BT has the exact same gun (he has many guns), he gave me a go to shoot at the magpies that raid the swallow nests in the stables. He might as well have given me a giant parsnip. It's not a big gun, but it's heavy, unbalanced and unwieldy, by the time I'd got it into position the magpies had died of old age.

Whoever shot the Bamber family had used a gun before.... they obviously underestimated the power of it, but they could hold it steady, point it, fire it and...most importantly, reload it.

Excellent post pugs!