Who should lead JB's defence at his third appeal hearing?

[Holly Goodhead]

David are you going to withdraw your comment that I was being "catty" towards MT QC on the basis he blocked my emails?

Are you now prepared to accept I was critical of him in that he pursued hearsay evidence from DI Cook re soc in kitchen disturbed and yet overlooked direct evidence from A/PS Woodcock which shows SC was disturbed in between his observations and SOC images taken?

The above is just the top of the iceberg.  I will go through the other points when I have time.

[Holly Goodhead]

David, Holly has been doing her "catty" thing overnight and contentedly purring in anticipation of your response?!

We spent some 4 to 5 hours together when we met so I'm assuming you didn't find me stupid?!  Do you honestly think I expected a response from MT QC?  No.  The objective was to leave an electronic footprint for the day of reckoning.

These lawyers are as much to blame as anyone for JB's plight.  We all make mistakes but this goes way beyond that.  It is incompetence and negligence on a breathtaking scale and worst of all there's simply no mechanism for addressing it.

Long before I joined the blue forum I asked my Pete (lawyer) how I should address a judge in writing as I wanted to write about JB's case.  The response "Under no circumstances should you write to the judge".

Nelly always very careful about over criticising Rivlin and Turner. 

The judicial system is probably the last bastion of an old boys network that needs bringing down for a radical makeover. 

Reading trial transcripts why the need to ask my Lord for his indulgence?  No other profession carries on like this: military, medical, teaching.  Respect can be show if deserved without this level of deference.   

[adam]

David, Holly has been doing her "catty" thing overnight and contentedly purring in anticipation of your response?!

We spent some 4 to 5 hours together when we met so I'm assuming you didn't find me stupid?!  Do you honestly think I expected a response from MT QC?  No.  The objective was to leave an electronic footprint for the day of reckoning.

These lawyers are as much to blame as anyone for JB's plight.  We all make mistakes but this goes way beyond that.  It is incompetence and negligence on a breathtaking scale and worst of all there's simply no mechanism for addressing it.

Long before I joined the blue forum I asked my Pete (lawyer) how I should address a judge in writing as I wanted to write about JB's case.  The response "Under no circumstances should you write to the judge".

Nelly always very careful about over criticising Rivlin and Turner. 

The judicial system is probably the last bastion of an old boys network that needs bringing down for a radical makeover. 

Reading trial transcripts why the need to ask my Lord for his indulgence?  No other profession carries on like this: military, medical, teaching.  Respect can be show if deserved without this level of deference.   

What 'breakthroughs' did you and David make at you're meeting ?

Will David's book be released at the same time Bamber is released ? That will be good for book sales.

Maybe David's book will answer my latest unanswered question to him. How dried toe nail polish came off Sheila's toe by 'standing on a rug'.

[John]

Is there anything really happening in the Jeremy Bamber case at all now or have the CT given up and faced the inevitable?

[Holly Goodhead]

What 'breakthroughs' did you and David make at you're meeting ?

Well from my perspective it was nice to meet someone face 2 face from the forum and a millennial at that!  I found David a pleasant enough guy.  I was unimpressed with his 'forensic evidence breakthrough' and told him as much.  Although we both believe JB innocent our case related views are very different.
   

Will David's book be released at the same time Bamber is released ? That will be good for book sales.

David has recently complained on Blue no one takes him seriously so if he's writing a book I hope any would be readers will not be disappointed.

Maybe David's book will answer my latest unanswered question to him. How dried toe nail polish came off Sheila's toe by 'standing on a rug'.

Sadly it shows how society is still sexist when men dominate the case by way of police officers, pathologists, experts, lawyers and journalists. 

At trial various men claimed had SC been responsible her nails/polish would not remain in tact.  Now Peter Sutherest and David claiming SC's toenail polish would chip.  Have any of these men experience of wearing their fingernails long with polish on finger and toenails? 

David you can't have your cake and eat it!  You believe SC was responsible and her fingernails and polish remained in tact and yet mysteriously this doesn't apply to her toenails?  The pathologist didn't note any bruises etc around SC's fingers/toes so how/why would toenail polish chip but not fingernail polish?   

[adam]

Well from my perspective it was nice to meet someone face 2 face from the forum and a millennial at that!  I found David a pleasant enough guy.  I was unimpressed with his 'forensic evidence breakthrough' and told him as much.  Although we both believe JB innocent our case related views are very different.
   David has recently complained on Blue no one takes him seriously so if he's writing a book I hope any would be readers will not be disappointed.

Sadly it shows how society is still sexist when men dominate the case by way of police officers, pathologists, experts, lawyers and journalists. 

At trial various men claimed had SC been responsible her nails/polish would not remain in tact.  Now Peter Sutherest and David claiming SC's toenail polish would chip.  Have any of these men experience of wearing their fingernails long with polish on finger and toenails? 

David you can't have your cake and eat it!  You believe SC was responsible and her fingernails and polish remained in tact and yet mysteriously this doesn't apply to her toenails?  The pathologist didn't note any bruises etc around SC's fingers/toes so how/why would toenail polish chip but not fingernail polish?   

You said in reply 38 David is writing a book.

It's true no one takes David seriously on the Blue forum. He believes Bamber is guilty but attempted a quiet stance change so he could post his images. He did create a minor stir two years ago after asking another poster to support his secret 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.

He said yesterday 'I chip and damage my toe nails all the time and dont even notice unless I actually bother to look'. In support of the OS's 2010 claim that Sheila's dried toe nail polish fell off her foot. During the kitchen fight David says 'didn't happen' !

David said dried toe nail polish fell off Sheila's foot while she was 'standing on the rug', but won't elaborate on this. He has a photo of Sheila's damaged toe nail on his lap top, but will not post it even though it would show the pathologist was wrong.

[Holly Goodhead]

You said in reply 38 David is writing a book.

It's true no one takes David seriously on the Blue forum. He believes Bamber is guilty but attempted a quiet stance change so he could post his images. He did create a minor stir two years ago after asking another poster to support his secret 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.

He said yesterday 'I chip and damage my toe nails all the time and dont even notice unless I actually bother to look'. In support of the OS's 2010 claim that Sheila's dried toe nail polish fell off her foot. During the kitchen fight David says 'didn't happen' !

David said dried toe nail polish fell off Sheila's foot while she was 'standing on the rug', but won't elaborate on this. He has a photo of Sheila's damaged toe nail on his lap top, but will not post it even though it would show the pathologist was wrong.

David said he intended to write a book but saying and doing are not necessarily the same thing.  I hope he doesn't as IMO he will just muddy the waters further.  I find David lacks critical thinking skills.  A thought/idea enters his head and it's then a fact without thinking ok does it stack up with other known facts, can it be argued against, is it capable of withstanding scrutiny.  Most of what David advocates can be knocked down with a feather! 

[Samson]

There are serious parallels here

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12002290

Sheila was fortunate she managed to shoot herself, and avoid the tragedy of this situation.

"The court case heard how Jackson left a suicide note before the murder, writing: "I do not want to leave her behind but I can't go on either.

"There's nothing for me or Macey, life's sh**."

Jackson tried to take own her life after writing the notes but police managed to break into her home and save her."

[Samson]

David said he intended to write a book but saying and doing are not necessarily the same thing.  I hope he doesn't as IMO he will just muddy the waters further.  I find David lacks critical thinking skills.  A thought/idea enters his head and it's then a fact without thinking ok does it stack up with other known facts, can it be argued against, is it capable of withstanding scrutiny.  Most of what David advocates can be knocked down with a feather!

David is making a fool of himself in the Lundy case on IA, ignoring the established truth and parroting the prosecution case. I am mystified how he could be so wilfully deceived.

[adam]

David gets very frustrated when I post a mountain of sourced evidence incriminating Bamber.

Sometimes he tries to dismiss 3 or 4 pieces with his own sources, which are snippets of documents rather than links. This doesn't help him as I've posted over 60 pieces. Usually he will just focus on me with an abusive '10 step' post. Not sure what he expects a guilter to do on a forum if I have undisputed sourced evidence.

To be fair he was the only poster who provided a list which he believed showed Sheila was the killer. This was easily dismissed. Claiming one document which included the words 'photo of footprint' showed Sheila was the killer was particulary poor.

[Holly Goodhead]

Is there anything really happening in the Jeremy Bamber case at all now or have the CT given up and faced the inevitable?

Nothing new on the OS but I think I saw a recent tweet on Blue where CT are asking for disclosure of the report produced by DI Kennelly (rank/spelling?). 

As I understand it this report was produced at the request of senior officers and concluded SC was responsible but I believe this was before JM and silencer emerged.

[Holly Goodhead]

David gets very frustrated when I post a mountain of sourced evidence incriminating Bamber.

Sometimes he tries to dismiss 3 or 4 pieces with his own sources, which are snippets of documents rather than links. This doesn't help him as I've posted over 60 pieces. Usually he will just focus on me with an abusive '10 step' post. Not sure what he expects a guilter to do on a forum if I have undisputed sourced evidence.

To be fair he was the only poster who provided a list which he believed showed Sheila was the killer. This was easily dismissed. Claiming one document which included the words 'photo of footprint' showed Sheila was the killer was particulary poor.

Have you quoted your 60 pieces here?  If not perhaps you could so in a new thread?  I'm always up for a challenge! 

[Holly Goodhead]

There are serious parallels here

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12002290

Sheila was fortunate she managed to shoot herself, and avoid the tragedy of this situation.

"The court case heard how Jackson left a suicide note before the murder, writing: "I do not want to leave her behind but I can't go on either.

"There's nothing for me or Macey, life's sh**."

Jackson tried to take own her life after writing the notes but police managed to break into her home and save her."

Sadly happens all the time.  It seems to feature more in economically developed countries or maybe we just don't get to hear about cases in economically underdeveloped countries. 

[adam]

Have you quoted your 60 pieces here?  If not perhaps you could so in a new thread?  I'm always up for a challenge!

I have put the sources in capitals. Each point may have other sources.

'Disputed/undisputed' relates to whether Bamber or the CT have disputed it. Feel free to dispute each point yourself.

---------------



Perfectly clean palm of hands on Sheila - Not disputed - COA

One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila - Not disputed - COA 

Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER'S DEFENCE. 

Well manicured nails on Sheila - Not disputed - COA. 

No broken nails - Not disputed COA. 

Nails in tact - Not disputed - COA. 

No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers - Not disputed - COA. 

No blood on finger tips - Not disputed - COA. 

No dirt on finger tips - Not disputed - COA. 

No powder on finger tips - Not disputed - COA. 

Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE, BAMBER.

No trace of any lead dust coating on Sheila - Not disputed - COA. 

No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice - Not disputed - COA

Very clean feet - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA. 

Feet free from significant blood staining - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA. 

Bamber doing nothing between 3.10am - 3.26/36am - Not disputed - BAMBER

No debris such as sugar on feet - Not disputed - COA.

No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST. 

Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress - Not disputed - COA. 

No presence of firearm residue on nightdress - Not disputed - COA. 

No trace of rifle oil on nightdress - Not disputed - COA. 

No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight - Not disputed - COA. 

No facial injuries on Sheila - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST. 

Sheila avoiding kitchen fight injuries with no body or face protection - Not disputed - FORUM. 

Nevill's massive height/weight advantage over Sheila - Not disputed - ACCEPTED FACT. 

Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT. 

Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT. 

Nevill being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS. 

Sheila being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting she had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS. 

Paint in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES. . 

Aga scratch's - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES. 

Blood in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES. 

No blood in the rifle end - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES. 

Sheila's legs pulled after second shot - Not disputed - COA. 

Blood underneath the bible - Not disputed - COA. 

A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.

Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol - Not disputed. - INTERNET ARTICLES, YOUTUBE. 

Sheila having Haloperidol in her body - Not disputed - COA. 

Sheila's condition hours before the massacre - Not disputed. Bamber being a main witness - BAMBER & OTHER PEOPLE. 

Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA. 

Easy window entrance into WHF - Not disputed. Agreed by Bamber. - BAMBER. 

Shutting kitchen window from outside - Disputed in 2017 but 20 independent sources prove otherwise - 20 SOURCES IN THE LIBRARY. 

No better massacre weapon options for Bamber - Not disputed - FORUM. 

Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell - Not disputed after Bamber hired him - WILKES'S BOOK. 

Easy bike routes to WHF - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES. 

Bike brought to Bamber's cottage just before the massacre - Not disputed - BAMBERS POLICE INTERVIEWS. 

June not waking or getting woken by Nevill - Not disputed - COA. 

Nevill's back burns - Not disputed. Suggestion burns were caused minus silencer rejected - BAMBER, TONIGHT PROGRAMME. 

2012 CCRC court judgement - judicial review request made & rejected - JUDICIAL REVIEW DOCUMENT. 

The twins not waking - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES. 

Bamber's call to the police - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES. 

Nevill's horrific injuries - Not disputed - COURT OF APPEAL. 

Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE STATEMENTS. 

No valid Sheila scenario - Not disputed - OS & FORUM. 

Bamber's 3am call to Julie - Not disputed - BAMBER. 

Nevill's 2/4 second call to Bamber - Not disputed - BAMBER. 

Bamber asking the police to pick him up - Not disputed - WILKES, CRIMES, HEARTS & CORONETS.

Nevill's back burns - Not disputed - BAMBER. 

Ease for a man to lift & carry a woman - Not disputed. YOUTUBE VIDEO. 

Crime scenes of 5 individuals - Not disputed - COA.  

Bamber's found hacksaw - Not disputed - BAMBER. 

Bible on Sheila's arm- Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.

Only execution period available to Bamber, 12am - 3am - Not disputed - BAMBER

Housekeeper evidence of items around the sink being moved - Not disputed- PB WS, WILKES'S BOOK

Only Sheila receiving a contact shot in a location that produces back splatter- Not disputed, COA.

Bloodied plam print on Sheila's nightdress - Not disputed. COA

[Holly Goodhead]

Thanks Adam.  I'll put your post above in a new thread and respond later when I have more time.