Has the discrepancy been discussed before - "did Kate enter by the front door"?

[Carana]

It doesn't really matter who was responsible for those decisions the point I'm making is that those decisions could have helped the McCanns evade justice as readily as put them wrongly in the frame. That's simply common sense.

Yes, lots of cases get thrown out of court in many countries due to errors of procedure that lawyers pick on. We all know that. In this case, that doesn't apply: they were never even arrested, let alone facing a criminal court case; and the basic procedure of finding someone to interpret for witnesses did actually happen (albeit retroactively chased up by the magistrate to get the oath paper signed in the immediate aftermath of the disappearance).

But what are you thinking of in particular that could have helped them "evade justice"?

[faithlilly]

Yes, lots of cases get thrown out of court in many countries due to errors of procedure that lawyers pick on. We all know that. In this case, that doesn't apply: they were never even arrested, let alone facing a criminal court case; and the basic procedure of finding someone to interpret for witnesses did actually happen (albeit retroactively chased up by the magistrate to get the oath paper signed in the immediate aftermath of the disappearance).

But what are you thinking of in particular that could have helped them "evade justice"?

Missed forensics, less than vigorous questioning, not carrying out a reconstruction when the main protagonists were still in Portugal, letting Gerry sit with Kate with his hand on her shoulder during questioning, not questioning Kate on the 10th of May, these are just some of the PJ's actions that could have helped the McCanns evade justice. I'm not saying they did, I'm saying incompetence works both ways.

[pathfinder73]

Not that I'm aware of.

As Kate didn't write about their deleted mobile records in her book of truth then maybe she didn't know about it.

[Alice Purjorick]

where did I read the PJ check RM's translations for errors?  You say "If there was no written record how would anyone know there had been a translation error?"  Does that then imply there were other written notes to which the PJ referred to?
For how were the PJ going to check RM's translations if there were no other notes?

"Nothing can be made or accomplished without proper or adequate material or information. 'You can't make bricks without straw and you can't portray a character just by making him up from within yourself'."

[Alice Purjorick]

Why did Gerry give a second statement ?  Was it requested or did he volunteer?

Some days when I am being a really sad old bustard I tinker about with things on this case.
A tabulation of salient points in each statement is interesting. Forgetting about pointless things like what colour socks people were wearing and such dross.
Somethings change somethings don't.
What is for sure is there is no confusion over which door is which nor it would seem is there any confusion in Gerry's mind about where he stood talking to Jez?!
There's more!

[Alice Purjorick]

If you believe that mistakes were made you must also agree that those mistakes could have helped as well as unfairly implicated the McCanns ? Questions not asked, incompetent forensics, Gerry being allowed to sit in on Kate's first interview, these could have all skewed the case in the McCanns favour.

Oh absolutely.
It's the same way manufacturing tolerances work on components and assemblies. They rarely all go the same way.
With the usual caveat of: "Except in guess where?"...

[Carana]

Missed forensics, less than vigorous questioning, not carrying out a reconstruction when the main protagonists were still in Portugal, letting Gerry sit with Kate with his hand on her shoulder during questioning, not questioning Kate on the 10th of May, these are just some of the PJ's actions that could have helped the McCanns evade justice. I'm not saying they did, I'm saying incompetence works both ways.

Ok, I don't have a problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is how the pro-PJ media made many of the issues you raise appear necessarily suspicious. All of which, in the absence of any PJ media strategy, got amplified by the UK tabloids, and ended up as "confirmed" because the same blurb had appeared in the UK media.

IMO, most people with with fairly firm preconceived ideas (on either side of any emotive subject) will tend to believe anything that supports a confirmation bias. Once that happens, it's hard to stand back and reconsider.

[Carana]

Oh absolutely.
It's the same way manufacturing tolerances work on components and assemblies. They rarely all go the same way.
With the usual caveat of: "Except in guess where?"...

Be a sport, Alice, could you be a little less cryptic? I really don't have a clue what you mean.

[Robittybob1]

Be a sport, Alice, could you be a little less cryptic? I really don't have a clue what you mean.

"Except in guess where?"...  Is a reference to that little spot in Portugal where the odds of something happening suddenly increase as if by magic.  The magical place has coordinates that Alice quotes, but more commonly called by the rest of us OC Gardens Praia da Luz.

[Robittybob1]

"Nothing can be made or accomplished without proper or adequate material or information. 'You can't make bricks without straw and you can't portray a character just by making him up from within yourself'."

The idea of adding straw to make bricks seems so foreign to me. 

[Robittybob1]

With no record, written or AV-recorded, any interpreter could have said anything they chose to and no one would have been any the wiser at the time.

Re Murat - when I've come across details that made me want to check back as to who the interpreter was, none have been related to him. So far, anyway.

Ironically, he may well have been one of the best in the early days. He didn't just have a working knowledge of both languages, he was fluent in both and would have been one of the few able to understand colloquial language and accents.

Even some of the PJ and GNR seem to be bilingual.  I wouldn't say they were fluent in English but it would be unwise to think the Police listening to the witnesses speak in English were not understood to some extent.
But very few of the tourists would understand the Portuguese.

[Carana]

Even some of the PJ and GNR seem to be bilingual.  I wouldn't say they were fluent in English but it would be unwise to think the Police listening to the witnesses speak in English were not understood to some extent.
But very few of the tourists would understand the Portuguese.

No, I'm aware that a few PJ officers understood some English. Paiva in particular was conversant, apparently.

In general, however, it's easier to understand a written text than to decipher what someone is saying when speaking. And English is a tough one with so many different accents and the frequent use of colloquial expressions.

[Carana]

"Except in guess where?"...  Is a reference to that little spot in Portugal where the odds of something happening suddenly increase as if by magic.  The magical place has coordinates that Alice quotes, but more commonly called by the rest of us OC Gardens Praia da Luz.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the translation. :)

[Alice Purjorick]

Be a sport, Alice, could you be a little less cryptic? I really don't have a clue what you mean.

Which bit do you find cryptic?
The first bit about manufacturing tolerances will be well understood by every engineer in the world no matter his discipline. It is scarcely cryptic and generally referred to as "tolerance build up" or if you are Yank "stack up" see:
http://www.sigmetrix.com/tolerance-stack-up/
Some variations go on one side of the scales some go on the other. Plus and minus. Simples.
Or if you play golf the description is "rub of the green" or if you want it in "Alicespeke" which ususlly draws points or warnings: "Where there is room for error it is fatuous to presume the error will always benefit the same side".

The bit about "guess where?" is my normal jibe about how in order to make some stories fit no natural law seem to apply in PdL which phenomenom we are expected to swallow without question.

[Carana]

Which bit do you find cryptic?
The first bit about manufacturing tolerances will be well understood by every engineer in the world no matter his discipline. It is scarcely cryptic and generally referred to as "tolerance build up" or if you are Yank "stack up" see:
http://www.sigmetrix.com/tolerance-stack-up/
Some variations go on one side of the scales some go on the other. Plus and minus. Simples.
Or if you play golf the description is "rub of the green" or if you want it in "Alicespeke" which ususlly draws points or warnings: "Where there is room for error it is fatuous to presume the error will always benefit the same side".

The bit about "guess where?" is my normal jibe about how in order to make some stories fit no natural law seem to apply in PdL which phenomenom we are expected to swallow without question.

Ok. Thanks.