Author Topic: The Changing of the Bedroom Door Position. A breakdown and key part of the case!  (Read 27470 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pathfinder73

Let's go through the statements of the three who did checks that night - Gerry McCann, Matt Oldfield and Kate McCann.

Gerry McCann 4 May 2007 statement

"In this way, at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked, went to his children's bedroom and checked that the twins were fine, as was Madeleine. "He then went to the WC" where he remained for a few moments, left, and bumped into a person he had played tennis with and who had a child's push chair, he was also British, he had a short conversation with him, "returning after that to the restaurant."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

Mysteriously there is no door move at all in Gerry's first statement about his own check!

"The door to the bedroom was ajar as usual. After that Matt returned to the restaurant."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

According to Gerry's first statement when Matt checked the door position was ajar as normal so what does Matt say?

Matt Oldfield 4 May 2007 statement

"At around 9.25pm, the interviewee went into his apartment and Madeleine's apartment to check on the children. He states that the door of the bedroom that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD.htm

In his first statement Matt says the bedroom door was open enough to see both twins/cots in the room.

Matt Oldfield 10 May 2007 statement

"He recalls that the bedroom door was half open, making an angle of 50 degrees."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm"

Matt recalls the bedroom door was in a half-open position and gives 50 degrees as an estimate. He also adds that he never told Kate or Gerry about the door position that he found when checking:

"The question asked, he clarifies not having told MBM's parents the facts of having found the door half-open, estimating it about 50 degrees, and having perceived the above mentioned brightness inside [the room], he related not having done it because he didn't attach any relevance to them [the facts]."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm


Matt Oldfield Interview 9 April 2008

4078 'You didn't need to because it was already open''

Reply 'It was already open. I mean, it must have been, it must have been sort of at that sort of angle, so it's just over forty-five degrees'.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

Just over 45 degrees so no major differences in Matt's statements about the bedroom door position.

Gerry McCann 10 May 2007 statement

"He noted that the children's bedroom door was not ajar as he had left it but half-way open, which he thought strange."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

A week later Gerry recalls that the door was now in a half-open position - a change from his first statement but spookily a similar position to what Matt found on his check 30 minutes after Gerry.

Gerry McCann Interview 7 September 2007

When asked about the time he went to check the children on the night of Madeleine's disappearance, he states remembering that he did it, according to his watch, around 21:04. He remembers that once inside the apartment he thought strange only the fact of the door to the children's room being slightly more open than how the defendant had left it when he and Kate left for dinner.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

Now the door position has changed to slightly more open than ajar in his arguido interview. Why wasn't half-open said again in September by Gerry?

Last check by Kate McCann

Kate McCann 4 May 2007 statement

"She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Kate refused to answer questions in September about what she found when she got to the apartment and discovered Madeleine missing as an arguido so we only have that one statement by Kate about the door position and it says completely open.

164
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 05:40:18 PM by John »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Robittybob1

Isn't it just based on what they know at the time.  If Gerry tells of what Matt did, he is just working off what he has been told, and has he been told all?  You don't know. 

Give us something to chew on please?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline G-Unit

Between Gerry's 4th and 10th May statements he contributed to the typed group timeline;

2105: GM returns to his flat (5A) and enters via the patio gate entrance. This and a child gate at the top of the stairs were closed at the time. He enters the flat via the patio door which is closed but unlocked.
The door is slightly ajar (about 45 degrees) which is unusual. All the 3 children were present and asleep. GM believes the shutter was down. The room in which the children are asleep is completely dark. On leaving the room, GM shuts the door to approximately 5 degrees. He then goes to the toilet to urinate.

Matthew's contribution;

2130: RJO remains in 5D as daughter has vomited. MO goes to check on 5A via the patio gate entrance. The outside gate is probably shut, but the child gate on the stairs up to the patio is possibly open. The patio door is closed but unlocked.
MO enters flat, hears a sound in the children's bedroom that is probably one of the twins rolling over in their cot. He does not enter the bedroom but can see through a now quite open door (greater than 45 degrees) into the room.
He sees the two twins in their cot, but does not check Madeleine formally as no sounds and twins asleep. He recalls the room did seem lighter than expected, perhaps suggesting the shutter had been raised or the curtains opened?

Kate says;

2200: (approx): KM leaves table to check children in 5A. The patio gate is closed and the child gate is also probably closed. She enters through the closed patio entrance, with the curtains closed. She crosses the living area, and there is no noise from the children's bedroom. She is about to leave, when she notices the bedroom door was  open (approximately 60 degrees).
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline jassi

I wonder how many re-writes it took to get to that stage? 8(0(*
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Alice Purjorick

I wonder how many re-writes it took to get to that stage? 8(0(*

Copious I shouldn't wonder.
The burning question is what would posess someone to do it in the first place?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Mr Gray

More non evidence  IMO... If the statements  had all been the same there, would be similar criticism

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Isn't it just based on what they know at the time.  If Gerry tells of what Matt did, he is just working off what he has been told, and has he been told all?  You don't know. 

Give us something to chew on please?

Chew on... this would give you lock jaw...

Summary: Matt is first to have what can be described as a physical check [ He saw the twins in their cots] He claims the door was open appx 45/500 he claims the room was lit enough to see the twins.
               Gerry  after a chat with someone, was the second person to have a physical check [his beautiful daughter moment], He claims the door was open appx 45/500 he claims the room was very dark...
                 Kate The  third person to have a physical check only noticed the door was open- appx 600when she was about to leave but paused as the door had been moved since she last closed it over when she left for Dinner. upon closing the door midway it slammed shut, then she noticed  as she opened the door  the shutters open-window open and curtains blowing she looked at Madeliens bed and had to take a second look to see she was missing from it.

So who opened the door to 45/50 degrees? and at what time was this done? If the room was light enough for Matt to see the cots and twins why couldn't Gerry see anything in darkness? but saw his daughter? why could Kate not see Maddie's bed  clearly- because Gerry saw her?

None of this makes any sense!
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Miss Taken Identity

More non evidence  IMO... If the statements  had all been the same there, would be similar criticism

lol if the statements had all been the same we would not have this thread! we are discussing the discrepancies and are wondering why that would be...
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Mr Gray

lol if the statements had all been the same we would not have this thread! we are discussing the discrepancies and are wondering why that would be...

Because, discrepancies  are normal..... As I said if they weren't there you would be, suspicious that the, statements  we're so precise... Imo

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Because, discrepancies  are normal..... As I said if they weren't there you would be, suspicious that the, statements  we're so precise... Imo

What? normal?  One person will say it was very dark,another will say it was well lit... eh?That is NOT a discrepancy at all. That is called 'making it up as you go along'.com
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Mr Gray

What? normal?  One person will say it was very dark,another will say it was well lit... eh?That is NOT a discrepancy at all. That is called 'making it up as you go along'.com

Do you have a cite for that

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Do you have a cite for that

cite for what? I made a statement I never mentioned any names just a general comparison. I won't ask you for a cite for the discrepancies and saying I would be suspicious if there were none. which is of course UNTRUE.

I think we should discuss new rules.
1. stop telling me and the rest of the members and readership what I am thinking - especially if you are wrong.

Mods what do you think?  or shall I tell you what you think of my rules.... ^*&&
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Mr Gray

cite for what? I made a statement I never mentioned any names just a general comparison. I won't ask you for a cite for the discrepancies and saying I would be suspicious if there were none. which is of course UNTRUE.

I think we should discuss new rules.
1. stop telling me and the rest of the members and readership what I am thinking - especially if you are wrong.

Mods what do you think?  or shall I tell you what you think of my rules.... ^*&&

So that is not an example from the files it's something you have made up
There are so many discrepancies  you couldn't name one but had to invent one... Point made

Offline Miss Taken Identity

I understand you have difficulty in understanding some posts,  let me clarify.

"So who opened the door to 45/50 degrees? and at what time was this done? If the room was light enough for Matt to see the cots and twins why couldn't Gerry see anything in darkness? but saw his daughter? why could Kate not see Maddie's bed  clearly- because Gerry saw her? "

real events! Real people!

"One person will say it was very dark,another will say it was well lit... eh?That is NOT a discrepancy at all. That is called 'making it up as you go along'.com"

Me making a comment about so called discrepancies which you claim to be discrepancies without a cite! Oh My.





« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 04:51:39 PM by John »
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline pathfinder73

Isn't it just based on what they know at the time.  If Gerry tells of what Matt did, he is just working off what he has been told, and has he been told all?  You don't know. 

Give us something to chew on please?

Let's start breaking it down:

Gerry 4 May - no moving door

Gerry 10 May - now the door is half-open

Gerry 7 Sep - now the door is a little bit more open than ajar

Gerry has given 3 different accounts of the door position in 3 different statements but some think it's not strange. That's something to chew over  @)(++(*
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.