Author Topic: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?  (Read 70936 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #465 on: February 08, 2018, 12:41:38 PM »
The validity of Martin Smith's identification is not the issue. The issue is whether the BBC mislead the public when claiming that he had withdrawn that identification and as they have now cut that claim from the Panorama programme it would appear they did.

Re-read my post, Faith.

2nd column, 3rd full paragraph

“…But then the story of the Smith sighting took another bizarre twist as allegations emerged in the media that the family had retracted their statements. The public were being told that their potentially critical development was just another red herring. “

Where was it alleged that the family had retracted their statements?
Statements concerning what? That they’d seen a man carrying a child? If so, news to me.

Next… re the Panorama programme: “Richard Bilton told viewers that the Smiths had changed their mind about seeing Gerry McCann and now believed they had seen someone else.


Smith or Smiths? Which ones?

What IS plausible (although I haven't had time to double-check) is that Bilton may have said that Martin now felt he may have been mistaken about being convinced that it was Gerry without checking with him personally.

If ever that's the case, and if that's all that it's about, it doesn't mean that Martin or anyone else "retracted" their statements.

Russ later wondered if Murat was indeed the person he initially stated he'd seen, but in the end chose to stick with his earlier statement, presumably based on his impression at the time.

What did Bilton actually originally say, and what was supposedly edited? She doesn't say (at least in the part I've read so far).

Why hasn't she provided a copy of the original and edited versions? That way, we'd all be clear as to what any potential edits actually were.


« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 04:27:26 PM by Carana »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #466 on: February 08, 2018, 12:51:39 PM »
Re-read my post, Faith.

2nd colum, 3rd full paragraph

“…But then the story of the Smith sighting took another bizarre twist as allegations emerged in the media that the family had retracted their statements. The public were being told that their potentially critical development was just another red herring. “

Where was it alleged that the family had retracted their statements?
Statements concerning what? That they’d seen a man carrying a child? If so, news to me.

Next… re the Panorama programme: “Richard Bilton told viewers that the Smiths had changed their mind about seeing Gerry McCann and now believed they had seen someone else.


Smith or Smiths? Which ones?

What IS plausible (although I haven't had time to double-check) is that Bilton may have said that Martin now felt he may have been mistaken about being convinced that it was Gerry without checking with him personally.

If ever that's the case, and if that's all that it's about, it doesn't mean that Martin or anyone else "retracted" their statements.

Russ later wondered if Murat was indeed the person he initially stated he'd seen, but in the end chose to stick with his earlier statement, presumably based on his impression at the time.

What did Bilton actually originally say, and what was supposedly edited? She doesn't say (at least in the part I've read so far).

Why hasn't she provided a copy of the original and edited versions? That way, we'd all be clear as to what any potential edits actually were.

and what precisely did Martin Smith say

Offline Carana

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #467 on: February 08, 2018, 12:56:07 PM »
No you have failed to mention the planned reconstruction involving the Smiths and there subsequent interviews which a mentioned by Amaral but are not in the file.  There are huge gaps in the story you are telling IMO.

I haven't found anything in the files about this supposed planned event that was allegedly given the green light by the head of the PJ.

The Smiths kindly going over in secret in May 07 to go over where exactly they saw their Smithman is one thing, but getting any of the Smiths over to sign on the dotted line as to a formal identification of a specific person would seem to require just a wee bit of paperwork. IMO.

What would this "reconstruction" have actually involved? A video projection on a truck of Gerry walking down the plane steps while the Smith family walked up towards home watching said video?

Offline Carana

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #468 on: February 08, 2018, 12:57:06 PM »
and what precisely did Martin Smith say

I haven't found a direct quote. Has anyone else?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #469 on: February 08, 2018, 01:04:23 PM »
i find his calim of being 60/80 sure it was gerry...based  on the way the child was carried ...totally ridiculous and without proper foundation...

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #470 on: February 08, 2018, 01:17:45 PM »
No you have failed to mention the planned reconstruction involving the Smiths and there subsequent interviews which a mentioned by Amaral but are not in the file.  There are huge gaps in the story you are telling IMO.

What has that got to do with anything?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #471 on: February 08, 2018, 01:18:38 PM »
i find his calim of being 60/80 sure it was gerry...based  on the way the child was carried ...totally ridiculous and without proper foundation...

Why?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Carana

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #472 on: February 08, 2018, 01:20:21 PM »
i find his calim of being 60/80 sure it was gerry...based  on the way the child was carried ...totally ridiculous and without proper foundation...

I don't, Davel. I've read and posted quite a lot about how post-event "information" can make people subliminally reconsider what they think they saw at the time. The Menendes case is one in point.

IMO, the issue is for the police to recognise that witness memories may or may not be accurate, or that they could be accurate on some details but not on others, and to work through it all.

I posted an article the other day about getting witnesses to ID someone. Apparently, a current recommendation is no longer to present a witness with several potential suspect photos at the same time, but to present them individually. And to avoid a physical ID parade in favour of a video (to avoid the added stress of a physical confrontation).


Offline Brietta

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #473 on: February 08, 2018, 04:26:18 PM »
I don't, Davel. I've read and posted quite a lot about how post-event "information" can make people subliminally reconsider what they think they saw at the time. The Menendes case is one in point.

IMO, the issue is for the police to recognise that witness memories may or may not be accurate, or that they could be accurate on some details but not on others, and to work through it all.

I posted an article the other day about getting witnesses to ID someone. Apparently, a current recommendation is no longer to present a witness with several potential suspect photos at the same time, but to present them individually. And to avoid a physical ID parade in favour of a video (to avoid the added stress of a physical confrontation).

In my opinion the McCluskey 'recognition' of Gerry carrying his son from the plane is a prime example as explained in many of the contents of your posts.  One wonders if there was any influence on the misconception of Smith and McCluskey as the result of the arguido status which had been conferred on Kate and Gerry making the unthinkable thinkable.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #474 on: February 08, 2018, 04:30:17 PM »
Why?

For the reason that his I'd is not based on something that is unique...ie his face... But on something that is not unique... The way in which he carried the child

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #475 on: February 08, 2018, 05:35:35 PM »
I haven't found anything in the files about this supposed planned event that was allegedly given the green light by the head of the PJ.

The Smiths kindly going over in secret in May 07 to go over where exactly they saw their Smithman is one thing, but getting any of the Smiths over to sign on the dotted line as to a formal identification of a specific person would seem to require just a wee bit of paperwork. IMO.

What would this "reconstruction" have actually involved? A video projection on a truck of Gerry walking down the plane steps while the Smith family walked up towards home watching said video?
There is nothing in the file about changing their minds either but we are still discussing it.
We have only a fraction of the entire paperwork IMO.   
Lifesized cardboard cut outs I suppose.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 05:46:34 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline barrier

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #476 on: February 08, 2018, 06:01:14 PM »
The piece about the Smiths saying they believe they  saw some else is still on the signed version.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08pmtb1/sign/panorama-madeleine-mccann-10-years-on#
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #477 on: February 08, 2018, 06:10:25 PM »
Re-read my post, Faith.

2nd column, 3rd full paragraph

“…But then the story of the Smith sighting took another bizarre twist as allegations emerged in the media that the family had retracted their statements. The public were being told that their potentially critical development was just another red herring. “

Where was it alleged that the family had retracted their statements?
Statements concerning what? That they’d seen a man carrying a child? If so, news to me.

Next… re the Panorama programme: “Richard Bilton told viewers that the Smiths had changed their mind about seeing Gerry McCann and now believed they had seen someone else.


Smith or Smiths? Which ones?

What IS plausible (although I haven't had time to double-check) is that Bilton may have said that Martin now felt he may have been mistaken about being convinced that it was Gerry without checking with him personally.

If ever that's the case, and if that's all that it's about, it doesn't mean that Martin or anyone else "retracted" their statements.

Russ later wondered if Murat was indeed the person he initially stated he'd seen, but in the end chose to stick with his earlier statement, presumably based on his impression at the time.

What did Bilton actually originally say, and what was supposedly edited? She doesn't say (at least in the part I've read so far).

Why hasn't she provided a copy of the original and edited versions? That way, we'd all be clear as to what any potential edits actually were.

I think most of your questions have been answered within the thread.

I think you'll find links to the Mirror article of 16th October 2013 where there's a direct quote from Mr Smith saying his evidence was still the same as it was in 2007.

There's a link to the Times 'Insight' article a week later saying (without any evidence) that he'd changed his mind.

There's a link to the original Panorama programme with Bilton's words about the Smiths included and a link to the BBC iplayer copy from which all mention of the Smiths has been cut.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #478 on: February 08, 2018, 06:13:25 PM »
The piece about the Smiths saying they believe they  saw some else is still on the signed version.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08pmtb1/sign/panorama-madeleine-mccann-10-years-on#

Seemingly it's OK to mislead the deaf.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Why Were We Lied to By the BBC ?
« Reply #479 on: February 08, 2018, 06:24:00 PM »
Seemingly it's OK to mislead the deaf.
That is likely to be an oversight. Lol
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.