The Smithman e-fits

[faithlilly]

Why would an innocent holidaymaker have needed a defence lawyer? If he could prove he was in Luz on the night in question, was walking past LuzDoc at around 10pm & had a 3 or 4 yr old blonde daughter wearing her pj's with him then the sighting could be eliminated.
If he was named as someone who was in Luz that night but had no given reason to be carrying a child then I'm sure he'd have been made an arguido by now.
Rather like the dog alerts, the efits are intelligence not evidence as both MS & PS categorically stated they would not recognise the man again.

All IMO.

It would appear that after 5 years of publicity an innocent bystander hasn’t come forward so I th8nk we can all but eliminate him.

On your second point IMO it would be all but impossible to arrest a man or make him an arguido based on efits which did not follow police guidelines and were created nearly a year and a half after the man was seen.

So why use them, that’s the question.

[misty]

It would appear that after 5 years of publicity an innocent bystander hasn’t come forward so I th8nk we can all but eliminate him.

On your second point IMO it would be all but impossible to arrest a man or make him an arguido based on efits which did not follow police guidelines and were created nearly a year and a half after the man was seen.

So why use them, that’s the question.

An innocent bystander may well have been totally unaware of the Smith family sighting if he hadn't followed the case over the intervening years.
It would not be impossible to arrest any person identified as resembling the efits if there were additional grounds for doing so.
Would you rather SY had ignored the efits altogether?

[faithlilly]

An innocent bystander may well have been totally unaware of the Smith family sighting if he hadn't followed the case over the intervening years.
It would not be impossible to arrest any person identified as resembling the efits if there were additional grounds for doing so.
Would you rather SY had ignored the efits altogether?

I think OG know exactly why they used them and I trust their judgement.

[misty]

I think OG know exactly why they used them and I trust their judgement.

I agree but probably for a different reason to you. Whatever the reason, MS can never be called upon as a witness in any future criminal case bar one against Murat.
IMO.

[faithlilly]

I agree but probably for a different reason to you. Whatever the reason, MS can never be called upon as a witness in any future criminal case bar one against Murat.
IMO.

That reminds me Misty you said Martin Smith gave Murat an alibi. You never said how.

[misty]

That reminds me Misty you said Martin Smith gave Murat an alibi. You never said how.

MS placed Murat at a location somewhere other than where Smithman was seen carrying a child, just as many GNR officers stated that they did not see Murat in the vicinity of 5A on the night of their arrival.

alibi

noun
1.
a claim or piece of evidence that one was elsewhere when an act, typically a criminal one, is alleged to have taken place

MS & the GNR officers provided eye-witness evidence.

[faithlilly]

MS placed Murat at a location somewhere other than where Smithman was seen carrying a child, just as many GNR officers stated that they did not see Murat in the vicinity of 5A on the night of their arrival.

alibi

noun
1.
a claim or piece of evidence that one was elsewhere when an act, typically a criminal one, is alleged to have taken place

MS & the GNR officers provided eye-witness evidence.

So do you now think that Smithman isn’t an innocent bystander then ?

[misty]

So do you now think that Smithman isn’t an innocent bystander then ?

I've already stated my opinion of Smithman on another thread, which you partook in. My opinion has not altered.

[Robittybob1]

So do you now think that Smithman isn’t an innocent bystander then ?

If he is going past LuzDoc at 09:47 PM perfect timing to be Madeleine's abductor. IMO.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I think OG know exactly why they used them and I trust their judgement.

Why do you think they used them?

[G-Unit]

When Redwood did Crimewatch we don't know what he was hoping to learn or what he did learn. Regardless of anything else, he had a sighting of a child who's description was very close to Madeleine's description. He was right to publicise that in my opinion.

[barrier]

If he is going past LuzDoc at 09:47 PM perfect timing to be Madeleine's abductor. IMO.

Or not as the case maybe,imo.

[Robittybob1]

Or not as the case maybe,imo.

I find it remarkable that there is perfect timing.  Was it coincidence?  That is the question but it is not often that you get to feel we are making some progress in this case.

[G-Unit]

I will begin my replies by trying to find as many as I can of the cites, references or sources members have asked for.

In my list of questions, I made these references:

(1) Martin Smith said: “…the man’s rude behaviour should have aroused my suspicions. The man put his head down and averted his eyes. This is very unusual…  (Media reports, 3 Jan 2008), and

(2) Martin Smith: “I heard that a kidnapping had happened in the village of Luz. We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News…it had a terrible effect on [the children].  They all wanted to sleep in the same room as us until we went home on the Wednesday”.

I have traced three media reports dated 3 January 2008. One was in the Sun, one in the Daily Mirror, and one in the Daily Mail.  The Mail report was by far the longest, here it is:

3 January 2008 in the Daily Mail

Maddie: Irishman provides dramatic new clues Daily Mail (appeared in paper edition only)
 
EXCLUSIVE: Tourist met rude man carrying child in blanket on night Madeleine vanished - by Sandra Murphy, Vanessa Allen - January 3, 2008
 
The following is extra information supplied by the Daily Mail:

AN IRISH holidaymaker has spoken publicly for the first time of his disturbing encounter with a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared.

“Now investigators hired by Madeleine's parents hope Martin Smith and his family can provide a crucial breakthrough.
 
“…the sighting…is strikingly similar to one by a friend of the McCanns, Jane Tanner. In hindsight, the retired Mr Smith said, the man’s rude behaviour should have aroused his suspicions.

“Martin Smith said: ‘The one thing we noted afterwards was that he gave us no greeting. My wife Mary remembered afterwards that she asked him: 'Oh, is she asleep?' But he never acknowledged her one way or another. He just put his head down and averted his eyes. This is very unusual in a tourist town at such a quiet time of the year".

“Their description of the barefoot child and the man, who wore beige trousers, echoes that of Miss Tanner…Though the Smith family believe they met an almost identical man closer to 10pm, the coincidence prompted them to contact police after they returned to Ireland. Mr Smith said: ‘Luz is such a small place and so quiet, we felt a duty to tell police and let them decide if it was important’."

“Last night, McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said detectives from the Spanish agency Metodo 3 now hoped to speak to the family…”

“On the night of the disappearance, Mr Smith was dining with his wife in the Dolphin restaurant in Praia Da Luz, where they are frequent visitors. The couple were with [the Mail names all members of the party]…All nine met the man holding a child but their recollection differs slightly from Miss Tanner's.
 
"The family added: “…Luz was very, very quiet at that time of the year and the likelihood of two young children being carried around like this is very small. Our timings are a bit different. She saw the man at 9.15pm. We say 9.45or 9.50pm…I don’t know if this information will help the McCanns. We kept interested in what’s going on but we tried to avoid the limelight”.
 
“Martin Smith added: ‘We have not been contacted by the private detective hired by the McCanns, and have had no contact with the investigating police since May 26 last year’.
 
"Mr Smith said it was some time before the family realised they could be star witnesses: ‘We were out the night it happened…We went home about 9.50pm and we heard nothing at all about Madeleine McCann until the next day. I was taking my son Peter to the airport and on my way back, I heard that a kidnapping had happened in the village of Luz”. [NOTE: Peter Smith says he found out about Madeleine’s disappearance at the airport: QUOTE: “He didn’t find out about Madeleine’s disappearance until the morning of 4 May through someone he knew, the son of the builder of Estrela da Luz, who was also at the airport, as he (Peter Smith) was waiting for his return flight to Ireland”.

"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless. We had two grandchildren with us at the time, aged four and five, and it had a terrible effect on them. They all wanted to sleep in the same room as us until we went home on the Wednesday”
 
"We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police. I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the ‘phone. Then they asked me to make a statement to Gardai, which I did in Drogheda two weeks after the disappearance. Two days later, Leicestershire police got on to us and said they wanted to speak to all nine of us. But we felt there was no point dragging grandchildren and the whole lot out to Portugal so just my eldest son, Peter, and youngest daughter, Aoife, and I flew to Luz to make a statement.
 
"The police were fairly busy and the station was pretty typical. They didn’t seem to be the most efficient police you ever came across but they are probably no different to police anywhere else. We were interviewed separately and told them what we saw, and showed them on the map where we met the man and child. We spent the whole day there from 10.30am to 7pm with an interpreter. That day, May 26 last year, was the last time we had any contact with the investigation. I remember clearly because it was my wedding anniversary.
 
"As we made our way back to our apartment in Estrella da Luz, we met a guy with a child that appeared to be asleep….it was getting dark and he was looking downward so I couldn’t tell you exactly what he looked like.
 
"None of us was 100 per cent sure what he was wearing but we all told police he was wearing beige trousers and a darker top”.

“We all put him in his early 40s.

“I didn’t think he was Portuguese".

“Insisting he knew chief suspect Robert Murat visually for years, Mr Smith told police the person he saw carrying a child could not be him. I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat. I think I would have definitely recognised him".

========

8 August 2007 - The Drogheda Independent runs a story headed: ‘Drogheda family hit out over Madeleine case clue coverage’.

Extracts from the long article ran as follows:

“A DROGHEDA family who may hold vital clues as to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have hit out at media distortion of evidence that they have given to Portuguese police. Maple Drive man Martin Smith, his wife and his children had just left the Kelly bar…400 metres from the McCanns' apartment at the Ocean Club between 9.50-10.00pm on the night Madeleine disappeared.

“They returned to Ireland the next day, and because the reported abduction times didn't originally match, they never had cause to examine their journey that night.

“As it emerged that Madeleine was abducted around the same time, one of the family members [Peter Smith – see above] had a flashback of the moment some time later and encouraged the others to jog their memory.

“They remembered passing a man walking towards the beach with a child in his arms.
Other than his approximate height and the fact that he was wearing beige clothes they cannot be more specific than that. 'We are annoyed at how vague our description is’, said the family member.

“The family contacted the Portuguese police and flew back over to give evidence. However, contrary to media reports, Mr Smith had not seen chief suspect Robert Murat in a bar the evening that Madeleine was abducted. 'He definitely didn't see him on the night in question,' said a family member.

“The family are also mystified at reports that he knows Mr Murat. 'They met once in a bar about two years ago. My Dad would only know Mr Murat by sight,' said the family member. 'However, from what he knows, he can say that the man who was carrying the child was not Robert Murat”.


NOTE, I have been invited by one member, I think Carana, to supply a copy of the article to which Martin Smith objected and felt constrained to consult a solicitor. My belief is that this article was removed from the internet by the paper after Martin Smith's complaint. I also believe that a photograph of him was removed by the paper also.   There is a reference to this dispute in the article above, namely this:  hit out at media distortion of evidence that they have given to Portuguese police.

I do not have to hand the name of the newspaper Martin Smith complained about nor the date of publication. I am looking

There was a flurry of media reports about the Smiths in early January 2008. On 30th January 2008 Martin Smith told the Garda that;

He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories......He has given no stories
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

I have learned that media reports are often misleading or downright false. Consequently I'm very reluctant to use or accept most of them as evidence of anything.

[barrier]

  That is the question but it is not often that you get to feel we are making some progress in this case.

Go back to bed Rob.