Do the sceptics simply misunderstand the evidence

[Angelo222]

And blood.. Theres, confusion already...

Ah but blood was easily excluded using Keela.

[Mr Gray]

Ah but blood was easily excluded using Keela.

waht about other body fluids in the training regime

you make a clain and have no cite...you say grime confirmed cadaver then you change it to within training regime...your claim ..imo...therfore has no credibility..

I have a quote from grime saying its possible the alert was to cadaver...Harrison says something similar...both say the alerts ahve no evidential vlue...I have a cite for all that....mine can all be confirmed...yours cannot

[Alice Purjorick]

strange choice..Coltrane payed cracker ...the criminal profiler....as used in the Colin Stagg case and we know what use that was.

John Coltrane played tenor and soprano saxophones. See the youtube clip I posted.
Robbie Coltrane who played Cracker took his stage surname from John Coltrane.
There is nothing strange about the choice of John Coltrane.
Simples.

[Mr Gray]

John Coltrane played tenor and soprano saxophones. See the youtube clip I posted.
Robbie Coltrane who played Cracker took his stage surname from John Coltrane.
There is nothing strange about the choice of John Coltrane.
Simples.

I obviously  didn't give your post the attention you felt it deserved

[G-Unit]

And what do you imagine that proves... There is evidence that that the dog evidence was considered unreliable

That corroborating evidence plus alerts without forensic confirmation can be used to secure a conviction. The courts didn't find anything to be unreliable.

[pathfinder73]

You can watch the episode if you have Sky. Season 2 Episode 8 "Into Thin Air".

Robbie Coltrane’s Critical Evidence came to a climatic end this Sunday. Looking at a tragic missing persons case turned murder case, an investigation that still runs till this day with a body having never been found…

So let’s take a closer look under the microscope!

It all started as a missing persons case, but after a week of combing through CCTV footage from across the city of Edinburgh, the case became that of a murder investigation. Suzanne Pilley, a small town bookkeeper in the city of Edinburgh, had begun her day like any other, got on the morning bus and walked to her office. But this was as far as she got, as it was here that she was murdered, before being dumped in the Scottish highlands.

This is what police investigators strongly believed was the case and they had one man in their line of questioning, Suzanne’s boss, David Gilroy. However from the outset he had been very forthcoming with police, providing them with details of her personal life, her friends, relationships and police took this as useful information but it didn’t arouse suspicion.

Though as time passed, small shreds of evidence began to mount up into a clearer picture of events and Gilroy was most definitely in the frame. It had surfaced that he and Suzanne had been engaged in an affair and it had been far from loving, with Suzanne’s family informing police of Gilroy’s violent temper. Now police had a solid suspect, they could start piecing evidence together, the first breakthrough coming from the cadaver dogs. They were sent in to search for any clues of a body having been in the office complex, in which the bookies were situated. They unearthed 3 distinct traces of a decomposing body being in 3 separate locations within the building, the main one being Gilroy’s work parking space, at the end at which the boot of his car was.

From this, officers now knew that a body had been moved and more than likely put into the boot of Gilroy’s car. This was then paired with CCTV evidence of Gilroy’s movements on the day of Suzanne’s disappearance, in which he had acted out of character, being seen several times wandering up and down the lane by the parking bays of his office and then a second time returning to the office with a plastic bag, which after investigation of purchase receipts was found to contain air fresheners.

Further to this was the journey that Gilroy had taken the following day after Suzanne’s disappearance, in which he had to travel to the other side of Scotland, cutting through the Scottish highlands, a remote and heavily wooded area. Now this was a scheduled journey that he had had to take, but police chose not to take this at face value and instead painstakingly worked out the route he took and how long it should have taken him. They conducted fuel tests to see how much he should have used, had he taken the route, without any form of deviation and this is where the critical evidence was uncovered. On the remote portion of his route that should have taken just over thirty minutes to pass through, Gilroy had taken almost two and half hours and similarly had taken roughly the same amount of time on his journey back. He had also switched his phone off and then on again either side of entering and leaving the area.

So police had the connection of a body having been moved and being placed in a parking space belonging to David Gilroy, they had his erratic behaviour captured on CCTV and the purchase of air fresheners and now they had him taking a journey but with significant detours. This was evidence of him having murdered Suzanne Pilley in the bookies, dragging her body down a fire escape and then dumping her body in his boot and buying air fresheners to try and mask the smell of her decomposing body. The following day he had journeyed across the remote area of Scotland, removed her body from his boot and hidden or buried it in the dense woodland.

However, this was all circumstantial evidence as they had no body to tie Gilroy with the actual murder and only 4 cases of a ‘no body’ murder conviction had ever seen a guilty verdict, but police believed they had enough evidence to charge Gilroy and on 15th March 2012 he was sentenced, by majority verdict, to life imprisonment for the murder of Suzanne Pilley.

To this day her body has never been found and Gilroy has never admitted to her murder or the possible location of her body and so the case remains open. The question this raises is did Gilroy deserve the sentence of life when his guilt was not 100% proven?

http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/shows/robbie-coltranes-critical-evidence/articles/episode-8-under-the-microscope

[Mr Gray]

That corroborating evidence plus alerts without forensic confirmation can be used to secure a conviction. The courts didn't find anything to be unreliable.

It is only you saying the alerts are corroborated... You are making things up... It will be interesting to see what my FOI request brings up

[G-Unit]

It is only you saying the alerts are corroborated... You are making things up... It will be interesting to see what my FOI request brings up

I don't make things up. Whatever you 'turn up' had no effect on the verdict, the appeal or the findings of the SCCRC.

[faithlilly]

And what do you imagine that proves... There is evidence that that the dog evidence was considered unreliable

Apart from the family’s anguished claim after Gilroy’s case was closed by the SCRCC there is no evidence that the aforementioned SCRCC said any such thing.

[Mr Gray]

Apart from the family’s anguished claim after Gilroy’s case was closed by the SCRCC there is no evidence that the aforementioned SCRCC said any such thing.

so there is evidence from the family.....and we await my FOI request

[sadie]

And blood.. Theres, confusion already...

And Eddie was trained on dead piglets

Once a dog has been trained on something, he cannot be detrained.

So Eddie was trained on :

1)  Dessicated blood from a living person
2)  Cadaver odour from dead piglets
3)  And at some time, after the period we are thinking of IIRC, he was trained ion the USA on human cadavers

[G-Unit]

And Eddie was trained on dead piglets

Once a dog has been trained on something, he cannot be detrained.

So Eddie was trained on :

1)  Dessicated blood from a living person
2)  Cadaver odour from dead piglets
3)  And at some time, after the period we are thinking of IIRC, he was trained ion the USA on human cadavers

And?

In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States. These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I
introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

[Robittybob1]

And?

In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States. These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I
introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

I don't believe that means a cadaver dog will be fooled by a bacon sandwich.

[G-Unit]

I don't believe that means a cadaver dog will be fooled by a bacon sandwich.

Whoever thinks it might is clutching at straws in my opinion;

"The initial training of the dog was conducted using human blood and
stil born decomposing piglets. The importance of this is that the dog is
introduced to the scent of a decomposing body NOT FOODSTUFF. This
ensures that the dog disregards the 'bacon sandwich' and 'kebab' etc that is
ever present in the background environment. Therefore the dog would
remain efficient searching for a cadaver in a café where the clientele were sat
eating bacon sandwiches."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

[Mr Gray]

Whoever thinks it might is clutching at straws in my opinion;

This ensures that the dog disregards the 'bacon sandwich' and 'kebab' etc that is ever present in the background environment. Therefore the dog would remain efficient searching for a cadaver in a café where the clientele were sat
eating bacon sandwiches.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

These alerts have not been corroborated.... And  therefore they have no evidential  value or reliability and no inference can be drawn from them