Isolation

[Welshman]

Was White House Farm very isolated with the nearest house being a long distance from White House Farm. 

[John]

Was White House Farm very isolated with the nearest house being a long distance from White House Farm.

Hi Welshman and welcome to the forum...



There are and were in 1985 two bungalows (A on map) right beside the farm (B on map) located on Pages Lane (see link below) with two other properties about 3/4 mile away.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=51.759885,0.804647&daddr=51.758979,0.803987&hl=en&sll=51.759321,0.804496&sspn=0.001932,0.005493&t=h&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=18&z=18

[Welshman]

Was anyone living in the bungalows at the time of the murders. 

[Myster]

Was anyone living in the bungalows at the time of the murders.

Why do you ask Welshman?

Is it because you think someone living close by might have heard the rifle shots... or if they might have seen/heard a vehicle or someone walking or using a pushbike down Pages Lane in the night?

I may be corrected here, but I think farmhand Len Foakes and his wife Jill lived in one of the cottages, and it was Jill who rang Betty Howie, a relative of June Bamber on the morning of the murders to say that Pages Lane and vicinity was swarming with police marksmen and dog handlers.

[Welshman]

Was anyone living in the bungalows at the time of the murders.

Why do you ask Welshman?

Is it because you think someone living close by might have heard the rifle shots... or if they might have seen/heard a vehicle or someone walking or using a pushbike down Pages Lane in the night?

I may be corrected here, but I think farmhand Len Foakes and his wife Jill lived in one of the cottages, and it was Jill who rang Betty Howie, a relative of June Bamber on the morning of the murders to say that Pages Lane and vicinity was swarming with police marksmen and dog handlers.

Yes I was asking this question because I was wondering if it would have been possible for Bamber to carry out these killings without anyone noticing things such as gunshots, screams and someone arriving at the farm. 

[puglove]

Was anyone living in the bungalows at the time of the murders.

Why do you ask Welshman?

Is it because you think someone living close by might have heard the rifle shots... or if they might have seen/heard a vehicle or someone walking or using a pushbike down Pages Lane in the night?

I may be corrected here, but I think farmhand Len Foakes and his wife Jill lived in one of the cottages, and it was Jill who rang Betty Howie, a relative of June Bamber on the morning of the murders to say that Pages Lane and vicinity was swarming with police marksmen and dog handlers.

Len's wife was called Dorothy. She remembered hearing Bamber driving away from the farm about 9.30 that night, speeding as usual.

[John]

Was anyone living in the bungalows at the time of the murders.

Why do you ask Welshman?

Is it because you think someone living close by might have heard the rifle shots... or if they might have seen/heard a vehicle or someone walking or using a pushbike down Pages Lane in the night?

I may be corrected here, but I think farmhand Len Foakes and his wife Jill lived in one of the cottages, and it was Jill who rang Betty Howie, a relative of June Bamber on the morning of the murders to say that Pages Lane and vicinity was swarming with police marksmen and dog handlers.

Len's wife was called Dorothy. She remembered hearing Bamber driving away from the farm about 9.30 that night, speeding as usual.

Different observers have remarked that he didn't speed on his way back to the farm even though it was supposed to be an emergency).  Jeremy even had time to stop and put on a cardigan??  I wonder what that was all about?

[Myster]

Len's wife was called Dorothy. She remembered hearing Bamber driving away from the farm about 9.30 that night, speeding as usual.

Was Jill another daughter like Julie Foakes then?

[John]

Was anyone living in the bungalows at the time of the murders.

Yes and heard nothing. No dogs barking, gunshots or any cars.  Thus the prosecution contention that Jeremy used a bicycle as he knew the short cuts from Goldhanger to the farm using farm tracks.

[puglove]

Len's wife was called Dorothy. She remembered hearing Bamber driving away from the farm about 9.30 that night, speeding as usual.

Was Jill another daughter like Julie Foakes then?

That's right, Myster. There was also another Mrs Foakes, who left the Head Street cottage so that Bamber could move in. She ended up receiving some dodgy drugs money meant for Bamber, by mistake. He was NOT pleased.

[Andrea]

We dont know at what time bamber carried out the killings, it could have been before midnight for all we know. He could simply have gone back to goldhanger on foot.

[Myster]

Yes I was asking this question because I was wondering if it would have been possible for Bamber to carry out these killings without anyone noticing things such as gunshots, screams and someone arriving at the farm. 

The distance to the nearest cottage is in the region of about 100 metres as the crow flies. The bedrooms and kitchen where the shooting took place  have windows located on either the South or West sides of the farmhouse (in other words facing away from the cottages), and the only crime scene photo available which shows an open sash is one of the parents' bedroom window on the South side, although this could have been opened by the police after they entered the property. An Anschütz 525  is not all that loud close up, even without a moderator fitted. So the sound of rifle fire through an open window reaching so far is really a non-starter. The same would go for any screams that may have occurred. The surrounding trees in full leaf would have added to the sound deadening effect.

I don't know how familiar you are with the case, but there is an ITV documentary of arms expert Philip Boyce firing a similar rifle, although the one he used was a carbine version and not the long-barrelled type like the actual murder weapon (15:30 onwards)...,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo

[Myster]

It's fascinating watching that documentary again !!

[goatboy]

Was anyone living in the bungalows at the time of the murders.

Why do you ask Welshman?

Is it because you think someone living close by might have heard the rifle shots... or if they might have seen/heard a vehicle or someone walking or using a pushbike down Pages Lane in the night?

I may be corrected here, but I think farmhand Len Foakes and his wife Jill lived in one of the cottages, and it was Jill who rang Betty Howie, a relative of June Bamber on the morning of the murders to say that Pages Lane and vicinity was swarming with police marksmen and dog handlers.

Len's wife was called Dorothy. She remembered hearing Bamber driving away from the farm about 9.30 that night, speeding as usual.

I have thought about this, and wondered if he deliberately made a lot of noise as he left-as if to reinforce the fact that he had left the farm late that night and giving himself an alibi?

[puglove]

Was anyone living in the bungalows at the time of the murders.

Why do you ask Welshman?

Is it because you think someone living close by might have heard the rifle shots... or if they might have seen/heard a vehicle or someone walking or using a pushbike down Pages Lane in the night?

I may be corrected here, but I think farmhand Len Foakes and his wife Jill lived in one of the cottages, and it was Jill who rang Betty Howie, a relative of June Bamber on the morning of the murders to say that Pages Lane and vicinity was swarming with police marksmen and dog handlers.

Len's wife was called Dorothy. She remembered hearing Bamber driving away from the farm about 9.30 that night, speeding as usual.

I have thought about this, and wondered if he deliberately made a lot of noise as he left-as if to reinforce the fact that he had left the farm late that night and giving himself an alibi?

Possibly. Dorothy Foakes said that he always drove everywhere too fast. Except for when he dawdled to WHF, although his dad had pleaded for him to "come quick."