If Jeremy Bamber cannot persuade us of his innocence...

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't think you're a loony Holly, you certainly don't leap blindly on any hair brained theory or cling to old myths with a vice grip of desperation. And you do have the good grace to admit when you're wrong.

 

[Caroline]

Not my intention to offend but the campaigns such as the bake off, the graveside reading and the totally offensive 'Sheila alive' are in my opinion the work of loonies!

I agree 100% - totally ill advised and indefensible!

[Caroline]

I agree that Mugford comes across as totally dishonest and self serving and she had charges against her that she would want to lose. That aside I do think that her evidence gives us the truth on one major point and that is the detail of Matthew M as hitman. It would make perfect sense that a guilty Bamber having told her of his plans and keen to keep her on side would then try to distance himself from the bloody horror that must have shocked her to the core by palming it off on a hitman.

I believe he also told her about the hitman because he didn't want her to know the full details, if she went to the police with the story he told her, in his mind, she wouldn't be believed.

[Alice]

The hitman story also reveals the truth as well I fear - the twins being shot first and the valiant struggle of Nevill to save his life. Nevill's injuries sadly tell his story and I have always thought that the little boys would have had to be done away with first. After all they would have been a dreadful sight upset and running around awake and scared. I do get cross about this as a mother, after all Ian Huntley slaughtered two children but I dont see mad old women or tin foil hat men bleating on about releasing him or finding reasons why his conviction was not sound!

[Caroline]

The hitman story also reveals the truth as well I fear - the twins being shot first and the valiant struggle of Nevill to save his life. Nevill's injuries sadly tell his story and I have always thought that the little boys would have had to be done away with first. After all they would have been a dreadful sight upset and running around awake and scared. I do get cross about this as a mother, after all Ian Huntley slaughtered two children but I dont see mad old women or tin foil hat men bleating on about releasing him or finding reasons why his conviction was not sound!

I agree that the twins must have been shot first, they were the only ones still in bed seemingly undisturbed. I guess such a coward wouldn't have been able to look them in the eye.

I suppose in defence, 'most' supporters believe that he isn't respnsible so don't view him as a child killer. However, I think there are some, who really just don't care one way or the other, they just enjoy being part of 'the cause'.

[Nicholas]

I agree that the twins must have been shot first, they were the only ones still in bed seemingly undisturbed. I guess such a coward wouldn't have been able to look them in the eye.

I suppose in defence, 'most' supporters believe that he isn't respnsible so don't view him as a child killer. However, I think there are some, who really just don't care one way or the other, they just enjoy being part of 'the cause'.

I agree with your observations Caroline!

[Samson]

If Jeremy Bamber cannot persuade us of his innocence he is unlikely to ever persuade the Court of Appeal.  And therein lies the crux of the problem facing him.  If he were to uncover some overwhelming piece of evidence or some material fact which not only throws doubt on his conviction but leaves one with the single compelling thought that he must be innocent, then that would see him walk free.  I have my severe doubts however that such evidence will ever be found or more importantly, even exists.

I wish him luck!

The autopsy report for Sheila states

"Wristw..ch left wrist. turquoise nightdress
well nourished. Blood stained palm print on nightdress
matches bloodstains appeared to have transferred from
right hand."

That blood stained palm does not accord with the prosecution case.
Let Jeremy Bamber go until this is explained.

[Nicholas]

The autopsy report for Sheila states

"Wristw..ch left wrist. turquoise nightdress
well nourished. Blood stained palm print on nightdress
matches bloodstains appeared to have transferred from
right hand."

That blood stained palm does not accord with the prosecution case.
Let Jeremy Bamber go until this is explained.

Let him go where exactly? He's been convicted for 5 murders. He's going nowhere!

Please stop cherry picking to suit your agenda!

[Samson]

Let him go where exactly? He's been convicted for 5 murders. He's going nowhere!

Please stop cherry picking to suit your agenda!

I was not aware that she had blood on her palm. I was just wondering how it got there, I presume it has been explained, but I can't visualise a scenario.
Robin Bain also had a bloodstained palm. I see this as evidence they were both involved in fighting before being shot. I have studied both cases extensively, and the perfect suicide trajectories combined with evidence of combat are sufficient for me.
This is all confirmation of other evidence re planning and motive. Incest, child confiscation. Powerful.

[Holly Goodhead]

The autopsy report for Sheila states

"Wristw..ch left wrist. turquoise nightdress
well nourished. Blood stained palm print on nightdress
matches bloodstains appeared to have transferred from
right hand."

That blood stained palm does not accord with the prosecution case.
Let Jeremy Bamber go until this is explained.

Samson rely on David at your peril!  Here's Dr Vanezis' trial testimony re SC's hands:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7970.msg386209#msg386209

I don't believe they were bloodstained.  If they were we have to believe Dr Vanezis was incompetent/negligent and/or perjured himself.

[Caroline]

The autopsy report for Sheila states

"Wristw..ch left wrist. turquoise nightdress
well nourished. Blood stained palm print on nightdress
matches bloodstains appeared to have transferred from
right hand."

That blood stained palm does not accord with the prosecution case.
Let Jeremy Bamber go until this is explained.

Errrr why?

[Samson]

Samson rely on David at your peril!  Here's Dr Vanezis' trial testimony re SC's hands:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7970.msg386209#msg386209

I don't believe they were bloodstained.  If they were we have to believe Dr Vanezis was incompetent/negligent and/or perjured himself.

It looks like a forensic observation of blood on her hand transferring to the nightdress. I see Charlie's explanation

"It's her own blood. She was propped on her right elbow, with her right hand wrapped around the barrel of the rifle, a couple of inches from the tip. When she fired the first shot into her neck, blood spurted onto her wrist and trickled downward."

But I have no reason to dispute the  notes David claimed to transcribe. Whatever we have her blood on her hand and nightdress, and only one realistic explanation, she shot herself.

[Holly Goodhead]

It looks like a forensic observation of blood on her hand transferring to the nightdress. I see Charlie's explanation

"It's her own blood. She was propped on her right elbow, with her right hand wrapped around the barrel of the rifle, a couple of inches from the tip. When she fired the first shot into her neck, blood spurted onto her wrist and trickled downward."

But I have no reason to dispute the  notes David claimed to transcribe. Whatever we have her blood on her hand and nightdress, and only one realistic explanation, she shot herself.

IMO Charlie's explanation is spot on and ties in with all the other known facts incl. Dr Vanezis' trial testimony. I'm looking at a good/hard quality soc image and the way Charlie describes the blood spurting on SC's wrist and trickling down aligns with the image and Dr Vanezis' trial testimony.  Charlie talks about bloodstains to SC's wrist area as Dr Vanezis does.  However David is convinced he can see SC's handprint in the bible.  I totally disagree.  There's no evidence SC ever handled the bible.  All the evidence points to June sustaining her gsw's in bed and walking around the bed holding her bible:

- June was very religious to the point the CoA described her interest as obsessive.
- June attended weekly bible classes
- June's mental illness was bound up with religiosity as per her psychiatrist
- The bible was kept in/on June's bedside cabinet
- The only identifiable fingerprints belonged to June
- The bible was found in an area where June had walked and shed a lot of blood on other exhibits in the area eg carpet and socks on carpet
- The pathologist confirmed in autopsy report and trial testimony June's hands, palms and fingers were bloodstained.

Samson you and I are atheists so maybe difficult to get your head round but I think someone such as June who was deeply religious reached for her bible having sustained the gsw's and walked around the bed clutching it.  Then as she started losing consciousness she dropped it pretty much where it was found.  I say pretty much as the perp may have entered the main bedroom from the box room and inadvertently moved it when opening the door: twins room, box room, main bedroom. 

All bloodstained exhibits were tested and results published but not so for the bible.

JB's lawyers, CT and David are oblivious to the facts.  They argue SC somehow had bloodstained hands and sought out the bible to read with the passages representing her state of mind.  See CoA hearing points 405 -421.  I would like to see MT QC struck off for incompetence and negligence:

 http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

Here's the CT's account here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fIx_fkDe0FE

Caroline - (guilty) believes SC's handprint is on bible
David - (innocent) believes SC's handprint is on bible
Holly - (innocent) believes June's handprint on bible or image that appears to be handprint might have been caused
by some other means such as box room door gliding over
Myster (guilty) believes June's handprint on bible

ETA:  There's now overwhelming evidence SC was moved at soc before images were taken so the image we see with the bible on her arm is unlikely to be accurate. 

[Caroline]

It looks like a forensic observation of blood on her hand transferring to the nightdress. I see Charlie's explanation

"It's her own blood. She was propped on her right elbow, with her right hand wrapped around the barrel of the rifle, a couple of inches from the tip. When she fired the first shot into her neck, blood spurted onto her wrist and trickled downward."

But I have no reason to dispute the  notes David claimed to transcribe. Whatever we have her blood on her hand and nightdress, and only one realistic explanation, she shot herself.

David transcribed?

[Samson]

David transcribed?

In this post
http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=194025#p194025

These initial notes are always of interest before a false crime theory is concocted.
I saw it in Bain when the first notes described what could only be suicide.

Dr Alec Dempster, the pathologist:

He described the entry wound to Robin Bain as being 4mm in diameter surrounded by a ring of soot up to 10 mm in diameter.
"This indicates to me that this is a contact wound where the muzzle of the gun has been held in direct contact with the skin of the deceased."


Then the nutters took over and took the point of the gun a full meter from Robin when fired, so ruled out suicide and put David away for 13 years.