If Jeremy Bamber cannot persuade us of his innocence...

[adam]

The twins being shot first works with the 11 bullets available -

Daniel - 1 bullet

Nicholas - 1 bullet

June - 5 bullets

Nevill - 4 bullets.

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Bamber returned later to shoot the twins 6 more times & June twice more.

An expert believed the twins were shot in quick succession. They were, 6 times.

[adam]

I would have gone straight to the main bedroom.

Bamber may have been confident enough to shoot the twins once each first. Then make the short journey to the main bedroom.

He could shut the twins bedroom door before shooting them. The rifle had the silencer on & Nevill, June & Sheila were asleep in other rooms behind closed doors. Sheila under sedation. So no possibility of anyone hearing 2 shots into the twins.

What would make no sense is Bamber shooting the twins first, 8 times. Then going downstairs to re load before entering the main bedroom.

[adam]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/board,1.0.html

What is not plausible is David's repeated suggestion that Nevill called  Bamber after Sheila had shot the twins.

[Samson]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/board,1.0.html

What is not plausible is David's repeated suggestion that Nevill called  Bamber after Sheila had shot the twins.

Sheila shot June then Nevill then the twins, and much later, herself.

[Alice]

Well if you think that then you also think that she managed to beat and burn him to a massive degree. She was under eight and a half stone for heavens sake - with poor coordination and drugged. Funny dont you think that she was such a remarkable shot and attacker given her physicality?

[Samson]

Well if you think that then you also think that she managed to beat and burn him to a massive degree. She was under eight and a half stone for heavens sake - with poor coordination and drugged. Funny dont you think that she was such a remarkable shot and attacker given her physicality?

I don't do believing, just crime scene.
We were subject to the disgraceful hoax concerning the police vs David Bain.
Bamber is every 23 year old with life ahead and no concept of trying to front run the estate.
Bamber is innocent.
Despite their Coro street like antics Holly and David are helping to right this ridiculous mess.

[Holly Goodhead]

Well if you think that then you also think that she managed to beat and burn him to a massive degree. She was under eight and a half stone for heavens sake - with poor coordination and drugged. Funny dont you think that she was such a remarkable shot and attacker given her physicality?

I'll tell you what I think:

- NB sustained 4 extremely serious gsw's upstairs which left him unable to defend himself thereafter
- The pathologist said NB sustained wounds from a "blunt instrument" most probably blows from the rifle inflicted when he was in a seated position.
- Prof Knight at trial didn't think the marks to NB's back were burns.
- I've haven't seen any evidence of SC's weight.  Her build is similar to mine although she was 4" taller and I'm 8 and a half stone so she must have been heavier. 
- There's no evidence SC suffered poor coordination and judging by how well her nails were manicured and her eyebrows shaped her hand eye coordination looks pretty good to me.
- Toxicology reports show SC had traces of cannabis in her stysyem and levels of Haloperidol at the low level within the moderate range so she wasn't "drugged". 
- SC wasn't a "remarkable" shot.  Victims sustained 25/26 gsw's.  Had JB been responsible he would have aimed accurately at the head.  In the case of David Bain 5 adults were killed with a .22 long rifle.  The 5 victims sustained a total of 8 gsw's. 

[Holly Goodhead]

The twins being shot first works with the 11 bullets available -

Daniel - 1 bullet

Nicholas - 1 bullet

June - 5 bullets

Nevill - 4 bullets.

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Bamber returned later to shoot the twins 6 more times & June twice more.

An expert believed the twins were shot in quick succession. They were, 6 times.

It's likely June sustained a graze only wound independent of the others during the first 'episode' ie 6 bullets.

Dr Vanezis thought the gsw's inflicted to DC were fired in succession as they formed an arc.

[Holly Goodhead]

Sheila shot June then Nevill then the twins, and much later, herself.

I agree with the above apart from there's no evidence SC took her own life much later. 

[Samson]

I agree with the above apart from there's no evidence SC took her own life much later.

Except the uncoagulated blood that shows drying from the edges. This is a proper photograph not touched up.
She shot herself only when confronted with the choice of being cold blooded child killer or tragic victim, tortured soul. The polis were all around.
Robin Bain folllowed her lead.

[Holly Goodhead]

In this post
http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=194025#p194025

These initial notes are always of interest before a false crime theory is concocted.
I saw it in Bain when the first notes described what could only be suicide.

Dr Alec Dempster, the pathologist:

He described the entry wound to Robin Bain as being 4mm in diameter surrounded by a ring of soot up to 10 mm in diameter.
"This indicates to me that this is a contact wound where the muzzle of the gun has been held in direct contact with the skin of the deceased."


Then the nutters took over and took the point of the gun a full meter from Robin when fired, so ruled out suicide and put David away for 13 years.

I don't have access to the notes.  Maybe Caroline does on the Blue forum and she can post them up or the section relating to June's hands? I've asked David to post up the notes on IA relating to June's hands in terms of bloodstains so we can see how they compare with notes re SC's hands.  David has this idea he can see an image of SC's bloodstained handprint on the bible.  I disagree. 

If David is serious about getting to the truth he will oblige.  We'll see.

Posters have a habit of making various assertions and then when challenged they run away or get silly eg David with his gifs.  I'm waiting for an answer from LuminiousWanderer about how a two gun theory would work. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Except the uncoagulated blood that shows drying from the edges. This is a proper photograph not touched up.
She shot herself only when confronted with the choice of being cold blooded child killer or tragic victim, tortured soul. The polis were all around.
Robin Bain folllowed her lead.

The authentic soc images I've seen show dried blood only.  The police surgeon certified the deaths at approx 8.30am and said all victims died around the same time.  No one at soc on morning of 7th Aug said SC looked different from other victims.  Two highly regarded pathologists known internationally didn't  raise the possibility SC took her life much later than the other victims. 

[Caroline]

I'll tell you what I think:

- NB sustained 4 extremely serious gsw's upstairs which left him unable to defend himself thereafter - Then why the need to beat him at all? Why him and not June, it was June she supposedly had the beef with.The soc evidence supports NB downstairs on phone to JB.  SC goes upstairs and shoots June 5/6 times.  Meanwhile NB appears on landing and sustains the 4 gsw's.  He retreated to kitchen and SC followed. It seems he went to kitchen worktop near phone hence bloodstains.  If the perp had already shot him x 4, SC IMO, the clearly they wanted to injure him fatally.  The beating he sustained was largely superficial eg abrasions and bruises most probably from the rifle.  At this stage the perp was out of ammo so needed to beat him into submission until it was safe to reload.
- The pathologist said NB sustained wounds from a "blunt instrument" most probably blows from the rifle inflicted when he was in a seated position. As above.As above.
- Prof Knight at trial didn't think the marks to NB's back were burns. I agree - they don't look like burns to me either and whatever they are, they may have happened after death.Or maybe unrelated.
- I've haven't seen any evidence of SC's weight.  Her build is similar to mine although she was 4" taller and I'm 8 and a half stone so she must have been heavier.  I posted a picture of her taken a moth or so before her death and she looks very frail. It's not just a matter of weight though, it's coordination and ability.The SoC image shows her weight/bmi in the normal range.  Certainly not frail or anorexic in appearance.
- There's no evidence SC suffered poor coordination and judging by how well her nails were manicured and her eyebrows shaped her hand eye coordination looks pretty good to me. There is evidence from other people and who said she did her own nails and eyebrows?Over the years authors have interviewed her various friends and there's no evidence anyone else did her nails, eyebrows.  She was claiming DSS and no evidence she paid for such services.
- Toxicology reports show SC had traces of cannabis in her stysyem and levels of Haloperidol at the low level within the moderate range so she wasn't "drugged".  She probably smoked cannabis at the party. A low level of moderate is not low. She was due her next injection and still had a moderate level in her system. She was medicated!Yes SC had a moderate level of Haloperidil on her system.  Low within moderate range.  There's no evidence she was out of it and would willingly allow JB to position her on the floor and shoot her twice.
- SC wasn't a "remarkable" shot.  Victims sustained 25/26 gsw's.  Had JB been responsible he would have aimed accurately at the head.  In the case of David Bain 5 adults were killed with a .22 long rifle.  The 5 victims sustained a total of 8 gsw's. Sheila wasn't any kind of shot, she fired a shotgun; into the air once, she had no experience of that rifle, the magazine wasn't on the rifle (according to Jeremy) so in her psychosis, she would have had to know it had a magazine, locate it from the settle, attatch it and chamber the first shot. In order for Jeremy Bamber to get a headshot on every victim, they would have had to have stayed still. The twins were executed with a head shot first because neither moved or woke from sleeping. The other shots were for effect. Jeremy isn't stupid, he had to make it look like 'a nutter' 'went crazy with a gun'

There's no evidence of SC's experience with firearms in general or the rifle used.  Over the years she may have walked around the fields with NB and or others and let off shots.  In any event it isn't remotely complicated.  A twin baby buggy is a far more complex piece of equip.  All the shots were close range and no doubt JB would have got in successful head shots with 1 or 2 gsw regardless of movement at the ranges.  As a marksman he would know to aim slightly to left or right so whichever way the victim moved they would sustain a hit.  In the Bain case 8 gsw's/5 victims at least 2 woke and were out of bed one putting up a fight and he only sustained 2 gsw's.  NB's facial wounds were within inches JB would have got a successful head shot in.  Yes SC suffered from paranoid schizophrenia but maybe she wasn't paranoid on 6th Aug.  Maybe she was just in a rage. 

[Caroline]

I don't have access to the notes.  Maybe Caroline does on the Blue forum and she can post them up or the section relating to June's hands? I've asked David to post up the notes on IA relating to June's hands in terms of bloodstains so we can see how they compare with notes re SC's hands. David has this idea he can see an image of SC's bloodstained handprint on the bible.  I disagree. 

If David is serious about getting to the truth he will oblige.  We'll see.

Posters have a habit of making various assertions and then when challenged they run away or get silly eg David with his gifs.  I'm waiting for an answer from LuminiousWanderer about how a two gun theory would work.

That isn't David's idea - he has adopted it and it originally came from Jeremy himself!

[Nicholas]

That isn't David's idea - he has adopted it and it originally came from Jerey himself!