If Jeremy Bamber cannot persuade us of his innocence...

[Caroline]

There's no evidence of SC's experience with firearms in general or the rifle used.  Over the years she may have walked around the fields with NB and or others and let off shots.  In any event it isn't remotely complicated.  A twin baby buggy is a far more complex piece of equip.  All the shots were close range and no doubt JB would have got in successful head shots with 1 or 2 gsw regardless of movement at the ranges.  As a marksman he would know to aim slightly to left or right so whichever way the victim moved they would sustain a hit.  In the Bain case 8 gsw's/5 victims at least 2 woke and were out of bed one putting up a fight and he only sustained 2 gsw's.  NB's facial wounds were within inches JB would have got a successful head shot in.  Yes SC suffered from paranoid schizophrenia but maybe she wasn't paranoid on 6th Aug.  Maybe she was just in a rage. 

Will respond later - I obviously don't agree

[Holly Goodhead]

Why does it seem likely she was moved? I don't agree given there would be no reason to move her. Two officers recollections weren't 100%, none of the others commented. Which images are you looking at are they on either forums are were they obtained by yourself?

We discussed all of this recently?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9159.msg446681#msg446681

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9172.msg447177#msg447177

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9438.msg459087#msg459087

[Caroline]

We discussed all of this recently?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9159.msg446681#msg446681

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9172.msg447177#msg447177

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9438.msg459087#msg459087

Yes, I know, I will reply to your post later - promise. Just looking at the rubbish on the OS. We cab't reply to it there so this is as good a place as any. I am sure they neb in regularly! 

[Nicholas]

Yes, I know, I will reply to your post later - promise. Just looking at the rubbish on the OS. We cab't reply to it there so this is as good a place as any. I am sure they neb in regularly! 

I had to look that up 

[Caroline]

I had to look that up 

Ha, ha! It's a northern thing I guess. 

[Nicholas]

Ha, ha! It's a northern thing I guess. 

You're right though, I imagine Jezza requests the CT keep an eye on things

[Holly Goodhead]

David's transcript was taken from autopsy notes.  Dr Vanezis trial testimony is as follows and he makes clear SC's hands were not contaminated with blood.   

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7970.msg386209#msg386209

If SC handled the bible why were her fingerprints not found on it?

52. The Bible found by Sheila Caffell's body, belonged to her mother and was normally kept in a cupboard to the right of her bed. It was examined for fingerprints. Many belonged to June Bamber and there were a small number of insufficient detail for comparison, save for one which appeared to have been made by a small child.

Pages 12 -17 of the following contain a report from a Dr Lincoln, blood serologist, for the defense.  It contains test results for all the blood stained exhibits but no mention of the bible.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=276.msg4584#msg4584

Of course JB's defense needed to chase this down but failed to do so. 

This allowed the prosecution to get away with JM's testimony claiming MM placed the bible on SC's chest.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1112

It's now clear SC was moved at SoC after officers found her and before she was photographed meaning there's no reliable data for SC's found position in relation to the bible. 

IMO what has happened is that many people including the lawyers and judges have looked at the SoC image and have made assumptions about the bible and SC without considering the surrounding facts.  The surrounding facts suggest SC did not have any contact with the bible whatsoever.  The surrounding facts suggest June either carried it with her when she walked around the bed dropping it in the vicinity or it was thrown or on the bed and was effectively thrown off NB's side as June threw back the duvet to get up.  I'm not convinced the stain inside the bible is a handprint or that the marks on SC's nightdress are a palm print.  I'm looking at a good quality SoC image and there appears to be a void pattern above what appear to be fingerprints.  The void pattern seems to have straight lines around which to my eyes could mean it was some blood transfer from the rifle and the void pattern represents a part of the rifle.

JB's lawyers at appeal claimed SC sought out the bible and the open pages represented her state of mind!  Not surprisingly he was laughed out of court.

The CT claim the notes sticking out are a suicide letter from SC when in fact they were June's handwritten notes. 

No one bothers with evidence just assumptions and imagination.  Consequently JB gets nowhere.

David "Catty" calling...

I've just checked autopsy:

June

"There was blood staining also to both her hands".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=684

SC

"There was blood staining of her nightdress where her right wrist had been
lying.  This appeared to have been transferred from her wrist.  There was also blood on both sides of her right forearm which had formed trails as well as some smearing and spotting".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=666

I will add relevant excerpts from Dr V's notes and trial testimony in the near future then we can view them altogether.  It's clear SC's hands were not contaminated with blood but you're not interested in the truth just promoting your book!

[Caroline]

David "Catty" calling...

I've just checked autopsy:

June

"There was blood staining also to both her hands".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=684

SC

"There was blood staining of her nightdress where her right wrist had been
lying.  This appeared to have been transferred from her wrist.  There was also blood on both sides of her right forearm which had formed trails as well as some smearing and spotting".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=666

I will add relevant excerpts from Dr V's notes and trial testimony in the near future then we can view them altogether.  It's clear SC's hands were not contaminated with blood but you're not interested in the truth just promoting your book!

 

[Holly Goodhead]

Any ideas for a title?   

White House Farm For Dummies! 

[Nicholas]

David "Catty" calling...

I've just checked autopsy:

June

"There was blood staining also to both her hands".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=684

SC

"There was blood staining of her nightdress where her right wrist had been
lying.  This appeared to have been transferred from her wrist.  There was also blood on both sides of her right forearm which had formed trails as well as some smearing and spotting".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=666

I will add relevant excerpts from Dr V's notes and trial testimony in the near future then we can view them altogether.  It's clear SC's hands were not contaminated with blood but you're not interested in the truth just promoting your book!

What a plank he is! 

He really should have listened to his Dad or stick to drawing cartoons

[Caroline]

Any ideas for a title?   

White House Farm For Dummies!

'For' or By? 

[Nicholas]

Think it should include "Gish gash" 

[Nicholas]

I agree that Mugford comes across as totally dishonest and self serving and she had charges against her that she would want to lose. That aside I do think that her evidence gives us the truth on one major point and that is the detail of Matthew M as hitman. It would make perfect sense that a guilty Bamber having told her of his plans and keen to keep her on side would then try to distance himself from the bloody horror that must have shocked her to the core by palming it off on a hitman.

Hi Alice & welcome to the forum

I've posted this elsewhere, however

"Survivors also ‘bond’ with their abusers through intense, traumatic experiences, which makes them likely to protect their abusers due to their own sense of cognitive dissonance about the abuser’s true self. They are conflicted due to the nature of the trauma, the dependence they developed as an effort to survive, as well as the fear of retaliation from their often more powerful partners. As a result, by the time survivors speak their truth, society may doubt their credibility.

http://www.shaktiyogijournal.com/how-society-enables-malignant-narcissists-and-gaslights-their-victims/

[Angelo222]

Just curious, what drives those who campaign for Jeremy Bamber so vociferously?   Surely anyone with the slightest titter of wit can see that the evidence points to him as being the murderer?

They were complaining the other day about those who campaign against Bamber, something which is quite rare and they were asking the question as to why??  The answer is simple as I understand it.  The blue forum oka the Jeremy Bamber Forum started advocating for his release based on lies and speculation and banning everyone who disagreed with them so something had to be done about it.  Thus the antidote oka the red forum was born, the rest as they say is history.   

[Alice]

That's a good question and one that puzzles me too. I think some campaign because they have some sort of police grudge and want to show them up to be incompetent. Some like bandwaggons, some have only looked at very slanted and biased evidence. However I do feel that a large number choose to believe in an innocent Bamber because they are fundamentally good people and it is easier for a good, socially adjusted and empathetic human to accept mental illness as a driver rather than cold, hard and unfeeling greed. My theory anyway and I'm no psychologist!