Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible  (Read 56517 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #135 on: May 06, 2016, 04:36:45 PM »
Yes I agree April, In my opinion June was struggling with her own religious problems, and therefore no help to SC. I can quite see why SC didn't want to stay at WHF.  But, was this the discussion on the night? It's the statement from BW on ringing the house at around 9.30 pm stating that Neville was short with her, and her comments that she felt all was not well at this time, that has me wondering.

Points that night:

JB. leaves the kitchen to shoot at rabbits
NB leaves kitchen soon after.
JB. leaves NB to collect the last rape collection. Why? JB had been there all day, why not finish the job unless after row with NB..JB walked out leaving gun on settle knowing it would upset NB.

Was JB still at the farm arguing with NB when BW rang? Could possibly have been!

All was quiet at farm by 10.00pm when June's sister rang. NB being out on tractor.....June states that SC was just off to bed.
Julie M states JB said he pissed off when he spoke to her.

His claim he loaded the gun to go shoot rabbits is not the least bit credible. It never happened and thus plays no role in whatever argument they had. That argument could have been over something as simple as Jeremy failing to get all his work done. 

He had been planning to commit the murders anyway. There is no way to know whether he would have lacked the guts to follow through with his plan if the "argument" had never happened.  I personally don't think the alleged row had anything to do with him following through I think he would have done it anyway and that what pissed him off was having to labor period which is what he complained about to Julie that very night.

He didn't want to work hard. If there were an opportunity to kill someone to obtain 1 million pounds he would have taken that opportunity instead. The only opportunity he saw was to kill his family to get their wealth. That he didn't like his family helped make it even easier for him to rationalize killing them. But criminals will make up all sorts of nonsense to rationalize their behavior and anything will do even though objective people looking at such rationalizations find them absurd. 
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Opal

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #136 on: May 06, 2016, 06:25:07 PM »
His claim he loaded the gun to go shoot rabbits is not the least bit credible. It never happened and thus plays no role in whatever argument they had. That argument could have been over something as simple as Jeremy failing to get all his work done. 

Could be right Scipio, but JB had to give a reason for handling the gun hence the 'Shooting Rabbits' scenario...true or not. It's JB that also states that he returned to house between 8.9 pm "I was popping in and out between loads from combining the rape seed". Neville was seen about 9.00 pm in the yard by Phillip Wilson.
who states NB looked tired but calm, yet 1/2 hour later at 9.30 pm Phillip's mother BW states that NB was short with her on the phone and she thought there was an argument going on in the house. JB states he asked his father to collect the last load of bale from field, was this what the argument was about as you suggest!  JB then states he left the house not saying goodbye to anyone. A neighbour heard his car roar off around 9.30 pm. So around the same time of BW's phone call.
 l

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #137 on: May 06, 2016, 06:48:07 PM »
JB did say goodnight to everybody, or so he would have us believe.  Love listening to this audio... he tells more tall tales than Tesko!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-jeremy-bamber-files-exclusive-audio-191151
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline adam

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #138 on: May 06, 2016, 06:50:14 PM »
Bamber may have gone out to shoot rabbits. Although he would not have seen any.

Pretending to see rabbits gives him an excuse to load the rifle.

After going outside and by his own admission not firing any shots, he put the rifle where he could easily access it later. This may have been hidden away. However with five people in the house, that was risky. If the gun cupboard was never locked, it was just as easy to put it back in there.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 06:55:52 PM by adam »

Offline Angelo222

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #139 on: May 06, 2016, 07:03:20 PM »
Bamber may have gone out to shoot rabbits. Although he would not have seen any.

Pretending to see rabbits gives him an excuse to load the rifle.

After going outside and by his own admission not firing any shots, he put the rifle where he could easily access it later. This may have been hidden away. However with five people in the house, that was risky. If the gun cupboard was never locked, it was just as easy to put it back in there.

Leaving the rifle out when he knew his two young nephews were coming to stay was a total giveaway.  Bamber must think we're all stupid.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline adam

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #140 on: May 06, 2016, 07:39:26 PM »
If Bamber left WHF after supper with Neville and June still up and awake, then one of them would have put the rifle away. Especially if he had left it in plain view in an area both of them visited.

However the only other option was to say Sheila went into the gun cupboard to get the gun.

Offline adam

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #141 on: May 06, 2016, 07:50:12 PM »
Bamber had to set the scene for Sheila having an available loaded rifle. To say Sheila went into the gun cupboard and then loaded a rifle was too daft. So he made up another story which was also not credible.

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #142 on: May 06, 2016, 08:07:32 PM »
Could be right Scipio, but JB had to give a reason for handling the gun hence the 'Shooting Rabbits' scenario...true or not. It's JB that also states that he returned to house between 8.9 pm "I was popping in and out between loads from combining the rape seed". Neville was seen about 9.00 pm in the yard by Phillip Wilson.
who states NB looked tired but calm, yet 1/2 hour later at 9.30 pm Phillip's mother BW states that NB was short with her on the phone and she thought there was an argument going on in the house. JB states he asked his father to collect the last load of bale from field, was this what the argument was about as you suggest!  JB then states he left the house not saying goodbye to anyone. A neighbour heard his car roar off around 9.30 pm. So around the same time of BW's phone call.
 l

The gun was never stored loaded. Many people would not buy that Sheila went to the closet to get the gun and to load it let alone that she went and got it and loaded it while arguing with Nevill and that Nevill did nothing to take the weapon as she was loading it. It takes 2 hands to load a magazine she would have to put the weapon down where it could be grabbed.

Jeremy's made up tale of getting the gun out to go after rabbits, loading it in the kitchen leaving the extra ammunition by the phone, and then leaving the gun out as well as the fully loaded magazine and bullets was simply a way to deal with this problem.

His made up tale of the gun being left out with a loaded magazine eliminates the need for Sheila to go to the closet to get the weapon out and the need for her to load the magazine thus giving Nevill the opportunity to safely disarm her. He even provided an ammunition source for her to reload from instead of having to go to the closet to look for ammo.   

Instead of making up that he loaded the gun in the office then ran outside, he made up the extra step of taking the ammunition into the kitchen to load it there by the phone.  This takes extra time and makes no sense at all.  He made up this just to pretend that there was a supply to reload from and during or after the murders the staged bullets to support this lie. The notion June saw them during the phone conversation and left them there is nonsense. He botched this planting of evidence by leaving too many bullets though. He said the box was near full or full he could not remember which but knew it had already been opened. If full that means 50 rounds. 25 were used in the murders so no more than 25 should have remained if his story were true yet 30 were in the kitchen. This proves his tale was a lie and that he staged them.

So at its core his lie was to suggest Sheila got mad and grabbed a loaded weapon of opportunity that was lying around and an extra ammunition supply nearby as well. In addition this lie accounted for any prints that might be found on the shell casings and weapon but he already had an excuse for his prints being on the weapon since he used it prior. Moreso this would be in case any prints were on the casings.  The last main value is that he described how he left the gun- without the scope and without the moderator.  By saying this was how he left it out and this is the state in which it was found police did not even consider whether there had been a moderator or scope.

The gun was stored with the scope and moderator attached and that is also how it was always used. Had Jeremy actually gone to the closet to get the weapon to go after rabbits that is how he would have found it.  He removed the scope himself in anticipation of committing the murders because the scope would inhibit accurate aiming at close quarters. He used the moderator then removed it and put it away and made up that it was not attached so police would not suspect it even existed let alone was used.

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Opal

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #143 on: May 06, 2016, 09:48:29 PM »
Quote  -  - Instead of making up that he loaded the gun in the office then ran outside, he made up the extra step of taking the ammunition into the kitchen to load it there by the phone.

JB does state exactly where he loaded the magazine. His parents and Sheila were seated directly behind him at the table, but said nothing to him. Sheila faced away from the dresser and 'would have had a good view of what I was doing'.  JB therefore insinuates to the police SC must have then used the gun later.... In old photos showing NB he is sitting with back to agar with one twin on his lap. I don't know about anyone else, but I have my own places to sit in our house as do most heads of the house  8(0(*

If NB had his own chair then it could have possibly been where he is photo'd.

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #144 on: May 06, 2016, 09:57:46 PM »
If NB had his own chair then it could have possibly been where he is photo'd.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Opal

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #145 on: May 07, 2016, 12:11:17 AM »
Have now found photos of kitchen at WHF set for breakfast the day after the murders. ( one photo is on the Bamber website!) This photo shows two smaller dishes and two larger dishes, alongside papers/mags, the smaller dishes are placed where JB says his parents were sitting having supper.  The other photo I found shows two small stools knocked over by the side of the table that JB states his parents were sitting.  I think JB was lying about the positions his parents were sitting on the night of the murders purely to imply that SC could see him best from her position.

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #146 on: May 07, 2016, 01:03:56 AM »
And there will be as many (if not MORE) instances of children who kill their parents for the inheritance. What's your point?

Considering there was discussions about foster care for the twins and Sheila recently had her Haloperidol dosage halved, the circumstances adhere to the studies, that's my point

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #147 on: May 07, 2016, 01:37:18 AM »
Considering there was discussions about foster care for the twins and Sheila recently had her Haloperidol dosage halved, the circumstances adhere to the studies, that's my point

How many featured a cut from 200MG to 100MG?  None since 200MG is not considered a safe regular dosage and 100MG is considered the maximum safe regular dosage.  So in all such instances dosages less than 100MG were cut in half.

How many featured women committing suicide with a firearm after shooting not only their kids but parents?

If you want to look in detail at the common paradigms you will find that the scenario Jeremy crafted in this case fails to fit any of them. Her dose was cut 3 weeks earlier without any result noticed. She had plenty of opportunity to kill her kids with a knife and then commit suicide. Jeremy's farce only holds up if one doesn't try to look into things in detail and simplistically just says crazy people will do anything. 

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #148 on: May 07, 2016, 02:20:30 AM »
How many featured a cut from 200MG to 100MG?  None since 200MG is not considered a safe regular dosage and 100MG is considered the maximum safe regular dosage.  So in all such instances dosages less than 100MG were cut in half.

How many featured women committing suicide with a firearm after shooting not only their kids but parents?

If you want to look in detail at the common paradigms you will find that the scenario Jeremy crafted in this case fails to fit any of them. Her dose was cut 3 weeks earlier without any result noticed. She had plenty of opportunity to kill her kids with a knife and then commit suicide. Jeremy's farce only holds up if one doesn't try to look into things in detail and simplistically just says crazy people will do anything.

This is from a study in 2007 called - The Role of Affect Regulation in a Case of Attempted Maternal Filicide–Suicide

The authors conducted a retrospective review of 30 records from coroners’ cases of filicide–suicide in the U.S. occurring from 1958 to 2002. These cases were screened for characteristics that might be specific to this kind of crime. Their findings for the mothers reveal that the filicide–suicide perpetrators presented a high rate of mental illness: 90% of the mothers had a history of psychiatric treatment and/or ongoing symptoms of a mood or thought disorder. Records showed that evidence of depressive symptoms could be found in 70% of the mothers, 30% showed signs of psychosis and 20% had a previously documented suicide attempt. However, information on this last point was incomplete. The mean age of the mothers was 31.8 years; most of them were married (70%) and unemployed (70%). Only one out of ten mothers had previously been charged for physical assault. The age of the victims killed by their mothers ranged from 3 months to 11 years. None of the mothers was reported to have attempted to kill their spouse. Previous domestic violence was noted in 30% of the mothers’ households, but none of the filicide–suicides appeared to be the culmination of abusive mother–childrelationships. The length of time that the mothers considered suicide and/or filicide prior to the act ranged from a complete lack of planning to several weeks. The authors conclude that the characteristics of this population differed from the traditional risk factors for violence (young—substance abuse—prior convictions for violence).

Offline Caroline

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The bloodied fingerprints and the Bible
« Reply #149 on: May 07, 2016, 03:16:45 AM »
This is from a study in 2007 called - The Role of Affect Regulation in a Case of Attempted Maternal Filicide–Suicide

The authors conducted a retrospective review of 30 records from coroners’ cases of filicide–suicide in the U.S. occurring from 1958 to 2002. These cases were screened for characteristics that might be specific to this kind of crime. Their findings for the mothers reveal that the filicide–suicide perpetrators presented a high rate of mental illness: 90% of the mothers had a history of psychiatric treatment and/or ongoing symptoms of a mood or thought disorder. Records showed that evidence of depressive symptoms could be found in 70% of the mothers, 30% showed signs of psychosis and 20% had a previously documented suicide attempt. However, information on this last point was incomplete. The mean age of the mothers was 31.8 years; most of them were married (70%) and unemployed (70%). Only one out of ten mothers had previously been charged for physical assault. The age of the victims killed by their mothers ranged from 3 months to 11 years. None of the mothers was reported to have attempted to kill their spouse. Previous domestic violence was noted in 30% of the mothers’ households, but none of the filicide–suicides appeared to be the culmination of abusive mother–childrelationships. The length of time that the mothers considered suicide and/or filicide prior to the act ranged from a complete lack of planning to several weeks. The authors conclude that the characteristics of this population differed from the traditional risk factors for violence (young—substance abuse—prior convictions for violence).

Did ANY of these mothers kill their parents too as a job lot?