Prof Knight's Trial Testimony Re Marks to NB's back.

[Holly Goodhead]

At least Mike hasn't gone on one of his abusive rants.

The abuse on the Blue forum has taken different forms since I joined. It is a pity that abuse is allowed on that forum.

Someone like JackieD will go on the attack & be abusive with her first post. While Nugs & Roch will only get abusive if posters don't agree with their crazy theories.

As mentioned by other posters, Lookout is very abusive, which is why the moderator is constantly saying 'I am locking this thread while I remove some posts'. Lookout is fiercely protected & will never have to change.

Former posters Grahame & Luminous Wanderer were very abusive. Grahame calling posters names. No one responded to Luminous Wanderer's long posts, except Steve,  who was then abused. He then got abusive with me when I did actually respond to his 'Sheila scenario' and instantly retreated to the safe haven of 'Injustice Anywhere'.

Sammy wasn't abusive but did threaten posters.

The most innovative abuser is David who monitors the Blue Forum 24/7 waiting for a guilter to post sourced evidence. He will then use images, diagrams, banners, 'Gish gash', 5 year old posts & straight forward typing to abuse.

Of course there is sourced evidence on a man who has been in prison for 33 years. David should take it like a man, not a boy.

David does not post on Red as he is not allowed to do any of this. I did suggest to the moderators on Blue that abusive images, banners & diagrams should not be allowed, but eventually got a negative response.

Amazingly none of the above posters have been banned as far as I know. Mike can't ban himself but did ban Scipio who used to disagree with him in Scipio's trademark 'no nonsense' way.

My posts were never abusive or threatening. I did try to out debate posters, which is normal & may have used sarcasim with others crazy theories. There is nothing in the Blue forum rules that says this is not allowed. However one moderator is fiercely protective of the supporters, women, Nugs, elderly posters & former moderators (virtually everyone)  & got really upset with my posts. Other posters saying I was being unfairly treated. I did complain but was always told a fellow moderator will always be supported.  So prefer to post on this forum.

Initially I found Scipio's style of posting overly aggressive and then I came to appreciate as you say his no nonsense style of posting.  I learned a lot from Scipio.    

The IA people are big on broad brush strokes and small on detail. 

[Harry]

There can be no doubt that the police were responsible for Nevil's body left in that position? Really? No one said that Nevil was in a state of rigor when Bamber left WHF, I'm not sure why you think he could only have been placed in that position if he were in a state of rigor mortis. I have seen a pretty good picture of Nevil's body and his left side is supported by the wall. The police could not have pushed him into that position when they broke down the door because the door is set back from the aga and there was a chair behind Nevil. He wasn't directly in front of the door as some believe!

Nevill's body was in rigor mortis when the photograph was taken. I have tested the position and can confirm that what Myster says is correct. You just can't maintain that position, even with a great deal of effort, so how could a dead body stay like that unless it was in rigor?



One telling detail is that there is no apparent support for the knees. They are bent just as they would be if the person had been sitting before the body was moved and tipped forward. But they just stay up there above the floor. The reason is that the body is in rigor and must have been in that condition before it was put there.

[Caroline]

Nevill's body was in rigor mortis when the photograph was taken. I have tested the position and can confirm that what Myster says is correct. You just can't maintain that position, even with a great deal of effort, so how could a dead body stay like that unless it was in rigor?



One telling detail is that there is no apparent support for the knees. They are bent just as they would be if the person had been sitting before the body was moved and tipped forward. But they just stay up there above the floor. The reason is that the body is in rigor and must have been in that condition before it was put there.

Nevil bled out in that position, by the time rigor developed, there would be no blood flow. Also livor mortis would have comfirmed if the body had been moved - it would have been obvious. Wether or not you could sustain a 'similar' position is neither here nor there. All you can see from the picture you posted is an outline, it doestn't show that Nevil's body was also supported by the wall.

[Caroline]

Nevil bled out in that position, by the time rigor developed, there would be no blood flow. Also livor mortis would have comfirmed if the body had been moved - it would have been obvious. Wether or not you could sustain a 'similar' position is neither here nor there. All you can see from the picture you posted is an outline, it doestn't show that Nevil's body was also supported by the wall.

I think the problem is, that Nevil couldn't have fallen like that himself, someone placed him in that position!

[Caroline]

Nevill's body was in rigor mortis when the photograph was taken. I have tested the position and can confirm that what Myster says is correct. You just can't maintain that position, even with a great deal of effort, so how could a dead body stay like that unless it was in rigor?



One telling detail is that there is no apparent support for the knees. They are bent just as they would be if the person had been sitting before the body was moved and tipped forward. But they just stay up there above the floor. The reason is that the body is in rigor and must have been in that condition before it was put there.

The support for his knees, comes from the angle of his body, it is leaning towards the wall and the left knee is in a position that can take the weight. The chair is also supporting the position but I see no way in which he could have landed in that position on his own. The blood on the coal scuttle shows he bled out from that position so you can only conclude that he was placed there shortly after death.

[adam]

Obviously Bamber lifted Nevill into a suitable position for him to be able to pull his pyjama top to the top of his back. Prior to inflicting the three burns. This may have been done during the 5 minutes + while the aga was heating the rifle nozzle.

Sheila did not have the strenght or composure to do this.

The police already knew a person was in that location in the kitchen as it was reported on the police radio. So did not touch Nevill when entering WHF.

[adam]

The position Bamber put Nevill would have also resulted in the the pyjama top staying up, when he pulled it up. Due to the way there is a steep decline at the top of Nevill's back.

This would have given Bamber two hands free in order to hold & place his  burning instrument.

[Angelo222]

It was my understanding that Neville was probably slumped in the easy chair and fell forward when shot again.

[Caroline]

It was my understanding that Neville was probably slumped in the easy chair and fell forward when shot again.

That is also impossible because the chair is turned over sideways not forward and Nevil is perched on the right side of the chair back.

[adam]

With Sheila & the police ruled out, it leaves only Bamber as the person who could have created this piece of forensic evidence - Nevill's body position.Unless people believe the third person theories.

The third person theories is something Bamber currently does not agree with, changing his mind from 1985 when he suggested Nevill may have said 'she' rather than 'Sheila' on the phone.  This was when the police told him Sheila could not have shot herself a second time.

If Nevill did say 'She' rather than 'Sheila', it would have to have been more than one woman, in order to lift Nevill. Mike suggested it was a hit man team. Maybe it was a hit 'woman' team. Surprised Nevill had the time to phone anyone.

[Harry]

Nevill's body was in rigor mortis when the photograph was taken. I have tested the position and can confirm that what Myster says is correct. You just can't maintain that position, even with a great deal of effort, so how could a dead body stay like that unless it was in rigor?



One telling detail is that there is no apparent support for the knees. They are bent just as they would be if the person had been sitting before the body was moved and tipped forward. But they just stay up there above the floor. The reason is that the body is in rigor and must have been in that condition before it was put there.

In answer to the above posts I would like to emphasize something which I might not have made clear.

I don't mean to suggest that the scene in the photograph came about entirely by accident. I believe that Nevill was dead sitting on a chair backwards and that when the chair was knocked over, the police deliberately moved his body to put his head in the coal bucket to catch blood leaking from his wounds. But I don't claim to know where the chair he was sitting on was originally located.

The overturned chairs as they appear in the photograph are no real indication of how things were prior to the mishap. Only the cops at the scene know what they found and what changes they made to the crime scene.

These are indications that Nevill died sitting on a chair backwards:

1 His knees are wide apart.

2 His arms are straight.

3 His shoulders are hunched and his head hanging forward, as they would be if his arms and head were hanging over the back.

What happened is that the stiff body remained in the same seated attitude after being tipped forward. It appears to defy gravity, but not if we take into account the presence of rigor mortis.

[adam]

Everyone agrees that either the police or Bamber moved Nevill. Similar to everyone agreeing that either the police or Bamber pulled Sheila's legs after the second shot. It was impossible for Sheila to do either.

Would be very surprising if the raid team did not see and knocked over a unit as big as Nevill sitting on a chair. Espescially as they were aware of a body in the kitchen before entering.

It would be even more of a surprise that the police would move Nevill into the position the photographs show. Not sure why they would be trying to catch blood leaking from his wounds.

[Alice]

I would speculate that it would be to prevent them stepping in it as they walked through the scene which would have created a hazard and hampered accurate recording of blood staining and spatter?

[Caroline]

In answer to the above posts I would like to emphasize something which I might not have made clear.

I don't mean to suggest that the scene in the photograph came about entirely by accident. I believe that Nevill was dead sitting on a chair backwards and that when the chair was knocked over, the police deliberately moved his body to put his head in the coal bucket to catch blood leaking from his wounds. But I don't claim to know where the chair he was sitting on was originally located.

The overturned chairs as they appear in the photograph are no real indication of how things were prior to the mishap. Only the cops at the scene know what they found and what changes they made to the crime scene.

These are indications that Nevill died sitting on a chair backwards:

1 His knees are wide apart.

2 His arms are straight.

3 His shoulders are hunched and his head hanging forward, as they would be if his arms and head were hanging over the back.

What happened is that the stiff body remained in the same seated attitude after being tipped forward. It appears to defy gravity, but not if we take into account the presence of rigor mortis.

Nevil was not in a seated postion nor does the position defy gravity when you see a decent res pcture.

[Holly Goodhead]

The support for his knees, comes from the angle of his body, it is leaning towards the wall and the left knee is in a position that can take the weight. The chair is also supporting the position but I see no way in which he could have landed in that position on his own. The blood on the coal scuttle shows he bled out from that position so you can only conclude that he was placed there shortly after death.

Was blood found on the coal scuttle?  I don't recall reading anything to this effect?