Leonor Cipriano, her confession and subsequent silence in the killing of her daughter Joana.

[Eleanor]

This is just disgusting.  Beating up suspects is now acceptable it seems.

[icabodcrane]

If they are indeed guilty, I agree with you that they are where they belong. However, I haven't found anything of substance to indicate that they are. Whatever the uncle got up to in the past isn't a justifiable reason to beat the hell out of people (or even the psychological equivalent) in police interrogations, IMO. Not just from a human rights perspective, but because people can end up making false confessions.

Have you read a complete  court transcript Carana  ?  ...   do you know precisely what evidence was placed before the court which led to a conviction for murder  ? 

If not ,  then questioning the guilty verdict reached by judge and jury is simply not appropriate 

[Mr Gray]

Have you read a complete  court transcript Carana  ?  ...   do you know precisely what evidence was placed before the court which led to a conviction for murder  ? 

If not ,  then questioning the guilty verdict reached by judge and jury is simply not appropriate

 But its ok for you to accuse the McCanns of guilt...

we have seen court documents that have listed the available evidence...this case has been discussed at length with no agreement...there wont be one now...basically there is next to no evidence...blood was found in the fridge which was assumed to be joannas....no dna test was done...why not...the whole verdict stinks

[Benice]

Have you read a complete  court transcript Carana  ?  ...   do you know precisely what evidence was placed before the court which led to a conviction for murder  ? 

If not ,  then questioning the guilty verdict reached by judge and jury is simply not appropriate

The claim that the LC's motive for murder was that she was caught in an incestuous act by her daughter was not accepted by the court.    Having dismissed  the motive - they still found her guilty?  How does that work?

However, having done such a good job in the press of turning Portugal against LC that she was in effect tried and found guilty in the press before she even got to court  -   it would be a brave jury member who found her not guilty.   IMO

The whole case stinks IMHO.

[Redblossom]

And let us not forget the following - which is yet to come to court:-

http://www.publico.pt/sociedade/noticia/mp-acusa-exinspector-da-pj-goncalo-amaral-de-tortura-a-leandro-silva-1389690

MP accuses former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral torture Leandro Silva

The Public Ministry (MP) accused former Inspector of Judicial Police Gonçalo Amaral assault Leandro Silva, companion Leonor Cipriano, convicted of murder and concealment of a body of her daughter Joana Cipriano, in 2004, in the Algarve.
End quote

The whole case stinks IMHO.

I thought that was thrown out the next year after it was lodged? Ie 2010

Do you have any documentary evidence its been reinstated? And awaiting trial?

[Benice]

I thought that was thrown out the next year after it was lodged? Ie 2010

Do you have any documentary evidence its been reinstated? And awaiting trial?

Not at the moment and I haven't got time to look right now.   If I'm wrong I will happily withdraw the post.
Have you got any documentary evidence that it was thrown out?  I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I've never seen any.

[Mr Gray]

Not at the moment and I haven't got time to look right now.   If I'm wrong I will happily withdraw the post.
Have you got any documentary evidence that it was thrown out?  I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I've never seen any.

 it wouldn't mean a thing if it was thrown out..its obvious it happenned

[Carana]

How many times does someone have to tell you before it gets into your head that in Portugal only confessions made in court before the judges are valid as evidence. Any other confession made before must be confirmed by the defendent in court and if the defendent remains silent, it's as if there had never been any confession at all. Therefore, it would be of no interest to the police to beat a confession out of a suspect. This safeguard came about after the fascist regime was overthrown in order to protect defendents because under Salazar confessions beaten out of suspects by the PIDE. These confessions were often the only evidence put before the judges and were always accepted as enough to put someone behind bars. Do you understand?

Change of regime or not, the "reconstruction" was allowed, the press had been oozing venom against the family since the Faro PJ took over back in Sept 04, and I haven't seen any concrete evidence that would make me feel comfortable with the verdict. Worse is the fact that the child's fate remains unknown, presumed to be murdered, and is no longer on any missing children's list.

[Carana]

Not him Eleanor.  He was playing a game and the PJ knew it.

ps you didn't answer my question?



You are a senior police officer and have a young girl missing on your patch.  Her mother initially confesses to having bashed her head against a wall killing her and of asking her brother to hide the body.  The woman is then incarcerated in prison and refuses to say where the girl is hidden.  She gets a new lawyer and next thing you know she is denying the murder and refusing to cooperate.  There is a small chance the girl might still be alive or at the very least you have a chance of recovering her remains and giving her a decent funeral, what do you do?

1. Do you accept what the mother now says and abandon the search.

2. Do you apply pressure to the mother in an attempt to save the child?

This was the predicament which Amaral and his men were faced with.  They put their jobs and careers on the line for that little girl...the rest as they say is history.

Since when was the search for a missing potentially living child once the Faro boys took over?

[Redblossom]

Not at the moment and I haven't got time to look right now.   If I'm wrong I will happily withdraw the post.
Have you got any documentary evidence that it was thrown out?  I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I've never seen any.

It was reported in the press and I have linked to it before but like you, I  dont have it to hand! But dont worry, I will find it and repost.

I have read on forums where posters say it is coming up for trial but seen no reports on it anywhere at all? I have asked certain psters to provide a link in the past, none were able to do so.....indeed ine said well, you wil just have to believe me lol

Eta here is a headline, from 2010, its not the link I was looking for with more detail though, will find it


http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cmjornal.xl.pt%2Fdetalhe%2Fnoticias%2Fnacional%2Fportugal%2Fgoncalo-amaral-nao-vai-a-julgamento

[sadie]

So you would let the little lamb rot Sadie?    And all because it had to be done prim and proper?

There is nothing prim and proper about thorough investigations and forensic proof John.

It is no good trying to use emotive language on me, John.  Such silly talk about letting the little lamb rot.  No indications at all that joana has died; just the word and manipulations of a cop who turned out to be a Court proven liar . twice over

Seems you think that torture is OK ?  So you wouldn't have minded if they had used it on you?  My bet is that you wouldn't have been half as brave as Leonor.  Such a brave woman.

As I have siad before, I believe Joana to be alive.  And I believe Madeleine to be alive too.

[Redblossom]

As I have siad before, I believe Joana to be alive.  And I believe Madeleine to be alive too.

We know, you showed us the pic and provided the proof!!!

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2853.msg106782#msg106782

Post 1022


 

[sadie]

We know, you showed us the pic and provided the proof!!!

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2853.msg106782#msg106782

Post 1022


 

Do not misquote me, Red.

I do not misquote you.  EVER

[Montclair]

There is nothing prim and proper about thorough investigations and forensic proof John.

It is no good trying to use emotive language on me, John.  Such silly talk about letting the little lamb rot.  No indications at all that joana has died; just the word and manipulations of a cop who turned out to be a Court proven liar . twice over

Seems you think that torture is OK ?  So you wouldn't have minded if they had used it on you?  My bet is that you wouldn't have been half as brave as Leonor.  Such a brave woman.

As I have siad before, I believe Joana to be alive.  And I believe Madeleine to be alive too.

Do you really admire psychopaths?

[sadie]

Do you really admire psychopaths?

Your logic for that remark please Montclair

Are you a Sinclair (St Clair) too?  Noble blood, sacred blood and all that, like Lyall?