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Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Myster on February 05, 2020, 05:16:52 AM

Title: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Myster on February 05, 2020, 05:16:52 AM
... in which Julie reveals all!
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: mrswah on February 05, 2020, 10:05:25 AM
... in which Julie reveals all!

I'm well prepared then. Sat there last night and read about a dozen pages of her statement.  For a few moments, the fence started creaking!
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 05, 2020, 01:06:13 PM
I'm well prepared then. Sat there last night and read about a dozen pages of her statement.  For a few moments, the fence started creaking!

But to which side would you have fallen?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 05, 2020, 01:14:26 PM
... in which Julie reveals all!

Should be interesting as to how they portray her and her cheque fraud shenanigans.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: mrswah on February 05, 2020, 03:55:31 PM
But to which side would you have fallen?

Your side, Caroline, but don't count your chickens !!
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Myster on February 05, 2020, 05:38:08 PM
Your side, Caroline, but don't count your chickens !!
The grass is greener on this side, mainly because there's plentiful rainfall which floods the worm burrows, forces them out and provides abundant nutrition for Caroline's countless chickens.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 05, 2020, 07:59:08 PM
Your side, Caroline, but don't count your chickens !!

 OK  @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 05, 2020, 10:02:41 PM
Still no mention of the cheque fraud perpetrated by Mugford but I must admit I felt sorry for Taff tonight when the entire enquiry team shat on him and indicated that Bamber and not Sheila was the murderer.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: James55 on February 05, 2020, 10:43:18 PM
JBs actions throughout the case would imply that he is a complete b........ and capable of anything. From what ive seen, he is devoid of any empathy and morals whatsoever. I hope his fellow prisoners are watching this series with a kettle and a sugar bowl at the ready.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 05, 2020, 11:07:48 PM
Still no mention of the cheque fraud perpetrated by Mugford but I must admit I was sorry for Taff tonight when the entire enquiry team shat on him and indicated that Bamber and not Sheila was the murderer.

But they were asked what's your gut instinct nothing about evidence!?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Nicholas on February 05, 2020, 11:59:08 PM
Final tragic twist of the Jeremy Bamber killings: His adopted sister 'Bambi', who was one of five shot dead at family farm, had been overjoyed to meet her birth mother for the first time just months before slaughter

One of Sheila's closest friends, Tora Tomkinson, witnessed that first meeting between mother and daughter at her North London flat. As she exclusively told the Mail this week:

'It really was a privilege to see how well the two of them got on. We were sat there on the sofa and into the room came this ray of light. She was equally as beautiful and equally as lovely as her daughter.

'It was so nice to see Bambi so in tune with this woman who was her real mother when she was so out of kilter with her adoptive mother.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7971451/How-Jeremy-Bambers-sister-Bambi-overjoyed-meet-birth-mother-months-murder.html
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 06, 2020, 04:02:19 PM
JBs actions throughout the case would imply that he is a complete b........ and capable of anything. From what ive seen, he is devoid of any empathy and morals whatsoever. I hope his fellow prisoners are watching this series with a kettle and a sugar bowl at the ready.

He's probably behind his door now for his own protection.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 06, 2020, 04:05:11 PM
Final tragic twist of the Jeremy Bamber killings: His adopted sister 'Bambi', who was one of five shot dead at family farm, had been overjoyed to meet her birth mother for the first time just months before slaughter

One of Sheila's closest friends, Tora Tomkinson, witnessed that first meeting between mother and daughter at her North London flat. As she exclusively told the Mail this week:

'It really was a privilege to see how well the two of them got on. We were sat there on the sofa and into the room came this ray of light. She was equally as beautiful and equally as lovely as her daughter.

'It was so nice to see Bambi so in tune with this woman who was her real mother when she was so out of kilter with her adoptive mother.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7971451/How-Jeremy-Bambers-sister-Bambi-overjoyed-meet-birth-mother-months-murder.html

Did her real mother play any part publicly in later years after Bamber was convicted or did she, as I suspect, slip back into obscurity in Canada too?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: John on February 06, 2020, 06:25:37 PM
The look on Taff Jones face was priceless when his entire team indicated to the Det Superintendent that they were of the opinion that Jeremy Bamber did it. If indeed it happened like that he must have felt a right charlie. Believe you me, police officers can be extremely nasty to their colleagues when out of the public eye.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: mrswah on February 06, 2020, 06:57:21 PM
The look on Taff Jones face was priceless when his entire team indicated to the Det Superintendent that they were of the opinion that Jeremy Bamber did it. If indeed it happened like that he must have felt a right charlie. Believe you me, police officers can be extremely nasty to their colleagues when out of the public eye.

I wonder if it really happened as in the TV programme, or whether Taff was let go quietly. It did all seem a bit too dramatic!
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: steve_trousers on February 06, 2020, 07:31:46 PM
Did her real mother play any part publicly in later years after Bamber was convicted or did she, as I suspect, slip back into obscurity in Canada too?

To my knowledge Sheila's birth mother has never made any public comment on the case.

Unlike Bambers real parents who paid tribute to Nevill and June, and called Jeremy a monster or something along those lines. 
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 06, 2020, 07:39:24 PM
Watching on catch up now,so in her interview she's describing the murder scene,how would she know this with out Bamber telling her?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 06, 2020, 07:54:29 PM
Did he also try and sell the explicit photo's of Sheila to the press?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: steve_trousers on February 06, 2020, 08:00:06 PM
Did he also try and sell the explicit photo's of Sheila to the press?

Yes, Jeremy and his mate Brett Collins tried selling topless photo's to a tabloid, who refused on the grounds of decency
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 06, 2020, 08:04:13 PM
Yes, Jeremy and his mate Brett Collins tried selling topless photo's to a tabloid, who refused on the grounds of decency

What a thoroughly nice fella Bamber is. 8()(((@#
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 06, 2020, 08:50:36 PM
Watching on catch up now,so in her interview she's describing the murder scene,how would she know this with out Bamber telling her?

Because much of it had been reported in the press.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 07, 2020, 06:55:32 AM
Because much of it had been reported in the press.
The window latch?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: adam on February 07, 2020, 07:21:19 AM
The look on Taff Jones face was priceless when his entire team indicated to the Det Superintendent that they were of the opinion that Jeremy Bamber did it. If indeed it happened like that he must have felt a right charlie. Believe you me, police officers can be extremely nasty to their colleagues when out of the public eye.

Wilkes's book said it happened like that. Everyone else saying they thought it was Bamber. Although there were less people in the room. 

Don't know if he was told Ainsley was taking over at the same meeting.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: adam on February 07, 2020, 09:01:47 AM
If Taff had said he had changed his mind at the meeting, it was too late.

Essex Police HQ had to be seen to be doing something after the mistakes in the first month. Of which Taff was in charge.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 07, 2020, 11:39:43 AM
The window latch?

Not sure about the latch. Good point!
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: adam on February 07, 2020, 12:26:25 PM
Surely Julie did not read all of this in the newspapers -


There was a valuble pidgeon clock, valuable china and silver at WHF. 

The outside doors were locked every night. 

There was a downstairs window which latched shut when exiting. 

There was a kitchen fight during the massacre. 

Neville received seven shots. 

The twins were shot in their sleep. 

Sheila had a bible by her chest. 

There was going to be a phone call from WHF to Bamber's cottage from MM. 

There was a phone at WHF which had a last number redial record. 

Bamber had started conversations at supper about fostering. 

Sheila was shot last. 

June was shot in her bed. 

Everyone was asleep. Except Neville. 

Sheila was shot under the chin. 

The twins were shot first. 
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 12:27:10 PM
The window latch?

JM did not tell EP anything that either hadn't been discussed by others and/or was capable of being verified. Eg the possibility a window could be shut from outside (discussed by relatives/police) and fall into the closed position and/or that JB hired a hitman (incapable of being verified).

Interestingly the blood flake supposedly found inside the silencer wasn't identified at the lab until 14th Sept which was a few days after she supposedly spilled the beans but not a word in any of her police interviews/wit stats re the silencer.  And much of what JM told police was factually wrong eg about NB's gunshot wounds and where SC was found.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: adam on February 07, 2020, 12:27:39 PM
Nevill receiving 7 shots is wrong. Bamber may have lost count.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 12:34:08 PM
Wilkes's book said it happened like that. Everyone else saying they thought it was Bamber. Although there were less people in the room. 

Don't know if he was told Ainsley was taking over at the same meeting.

The above was also dramatised in one of the earlier dramas but with fewer people possibly 4.  From memory I think it was Crimes That Shook Britain.

They are asked who they think dunnit.  I think Di Miller is quoted as saying something about the witness ie JM and the silencer. 
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 12:39:32 PM
Nevill receiving 7 shots is wrong. Bamber may have lost count.

NB sustained 7 entry wounds and 1 exit/graze wound so I guess herein lies the confusion.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 12:44:09 PM
Did he also try and sell the explicit photo's of Sheila to the press?

How would any us know the exact nature of the images and what conversations took place?  JB and BC v Hack at The Sun. 
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 07, 2020, 01:44:09 PM
A compliant Sheila being shot last has never sat comfortably with me. My theory is that the sleeping twins were shot last and that Sheila agreed to be compliant on the understanding that Bamber wouldn't hurt the twins.  I don't see her being complaint for any other reason.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 01:58:15 PM
A compliant Sheila being shot last has never sat comfortably with me. My theory is that the sleeping twins were shot last and that Sheila agreed to be compliant on the understanding that Bamber wouldn't hurt the twins.  I don't see her being complaint for any other reason.

She was obviously very trusting then if she had/seen heard her parents sustaining multiple gunshot wounds and JB was able to convince SC to lie down on the floor whilst he lined up the rifle vertically across her body with the silencer pressed under her chin but he wasn't going to hurt the twins. 
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: adam on February 07, 2020, 02:30:11 PM
Bamber may have been mistaken telling Julie Nevill was shot 7 times. However he would have known he shot the twins first.

With a silencer attached & everyone else asleep behind closed doors, no one would wake when the twins were shot once each. 

A few seconds later he entered the main bedroom. Planning to fire 8 bullets. Which would leave one for Sheila.

Nevill waking meant he had to find a plan B.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: steve_trousers on February 07, 2020, 03:16:52 PM
A compliant Sheila being shot last has never sat comfortably with me. My theory is that the sleeping twins were shot last and that Sheila agreed to be compliant on the understanding that Bamber wouldn't hurt the twins.  I don't see her being complaint for any other reason.

It does make sense, seeing as the twins posed the least threat out of them all. Worst case scenario if they woke up at some point all they could realistically do is hide.

Being scared out of her wits a bank job style threat such as "DOWN!, DOWN!, GET ON YOUR BACK, F****** DOWN NOW!" from the armed perp would have had the same effect without necessarily bringing the kids into it. I can see how Bamber might have wanted to keep dialog to a minimum and just get the business over with.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Eleanor on February 07, 2020, 03:22:24 PM

Why shoot everyone else so many times, unless the shooter was deranged?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: steve_trousers on February 07, 2020, 03:25:39 PM
Why shoot everyone else so many times, unless the shooter was deranged?

To make it appear as if a deranged person did it.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 07, 2020, 04:09:43 PM
How would any us know the exact nature of the images and what conversations took place?  JB and BC v Hack at The Sun.

Because Colin confirms that the way they were described to Fielder, was exactly the terminology used by Jeremy to described said pictures to him.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 07, 2020, 04:11:11 PM
A compliant Sheila being shot last has never sat comfortably with me. My theory is that the sleeping twins were shot last and that Sheila agreed to be compliant on the understanding that Bamber wouldn't hurt the twins.  I don't see her being complaint for any other reason.

Or they were shot first and she felt there wss nothing left to live for.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: adam on February 07, 2020, 04:15:48 PM
Bamber attempting an 11 shot massacre could still make it look like Sheila was randomly shooting. By shooting June in various places.

Once he had to re load once, he might as well re load twice.

Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: steve_trousers on February 07, 2020, 05:50:04 PM
Bamber attempting an 11 shot massacre could still make it look like Sheila was randomly shooting. By shooting June in various places.

Once he had to re load once, he might as well re load twice.

Aye. Did he get some kind of warped pleasure out of shooting June in various places?

Does anyone know if he paid her back in full for bailing him out financially in NZ?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Myster on February 07, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
Aye. Did he get some kind of warped pleasure out of shooting June in various places?

Does anyone know if he paid her back in full for bailing him out financially in NZ?
I very much doubt it.  It went the same way as the nine hundred and eighty quid that he rifled from Osea.... Written off.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 07, 2020, 07:02:36 PM
To make it appear as if a deranged person did it.

Cold and calculated for that very reason.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 08:19:30 PM
Cold and calculated for that very reason.

If he wanted to leave everyone with the impression SC was responsible, who had limited experience/knowledge with firearms, why not complete the massacre with 10/11 shots which would require only 1 load ie the load he primed before he left the farm?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 08:25:56 PM
Because Colin confirms that the way they were described to Fielder, was exactly the terminology used by Jeremy to described said pictures to him.

What does this prove?

Even if JB did offer up explicit images of SC what does it prove?  It shows him as being immature, but then he was only 24 yoa, and it shows him exercising poor juudgement and being crass and insensitive.  It doesn't show who pulled the trigger.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 07, 2020, 09:01:14 PM
Why shoot everyone else so many times, unless the shooter was deranged?

The rifle was low powered Eleanor so he had to shoot everyone multiple times. I think Bamber overestimated the power of his rifle and ran out of shells too quickly meaning he had to scarper downstairs for more ammo and that gave Nevill the opportunity to try to get help.  But Bamber clobbered him with the rifle butt and a fight ensued. This is the fight some including Holly would have us believe that Sheila was involved in yet there wasn't a mark on her and no blood spatter on her or her clothing.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 09:05:41 PM
The rifle was low powered Eleanor so he had to shoot everyone multiple times. I think Bamber overestimated the power of his rifle and ran out of shells too quickly meaning he had to scarper downstairs for more ammo.

It wasn't low powered at all:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11191.msg570652#msg570652

So many shots were required as the perp was inexperienced with firearms and was hitting limbs (June) and the torso (NB).
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 07, 2020, 09:07:15 PM
Or they were shot first and she felt there wss nothing left to live for.

No, I don't buy into that scenario. Sheila would have gone berserk had she seen her boys murdered and that would have caused Bamber a massive problem.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 07, 2020, 09:08:41 PM
It wasn't low powered at all:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11191.msg570652#msg570652

So many shots were required as the perp was inexperienced with firearms and was hitting limbs (June) and the torso (NB).

You obviously don't know your guns Holly. A 38 revolver would have killed everyone instantly with one strategic shot. The .22 rifle with gaming ammo is for shooting rabbits, crows and pigeons.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 07, 2020, 09:13:26 PM
What does this prove?

Even if JB did offer up explicit images of SC what does it prove?  It shows him as being immature, but then he was only 24 yoa, and it shows him exercising poor juudgement and being crass and insensitive.  It doesn't show who pulled the trigger.

Immature my ass, it clearly shows what sort of a depraved monster he is.  And you lend support to such a creature?  Sorry if this offends but it has to be said.

I'm off out to get my Chinese... hopefully minus the coronavirus   @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 09:18:00 PM
You obviously don't know your guns Holly. A 38 revolver would have killed everyone instantly with one strategic shot. The .22 rifle with gaming ammo is for shooting rabbits, crows and pigeons.

Neither it seems do you Angelo.  The maths and physics speak for themselves. This can be evidenced by the case of David Bain where victims died from single gunshots fired from a. 22 rifle.

Furthermore the bullets were hollow nosed.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 07, 2020, 09:19:27 PM
Neither it seems do you Angelo.  The maths and physics speak for themselves. This can be evidenced by the case of David Bain where victims died from single gunshots fired from a. 22 rifle.

Furthermore the bullets were hollow nosed.

Different charge Holly.  Why do you think police use magnum shells?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 09:28:07 PM
Different charge Holly.  Why do you think police use magnum shells?

No idea what you mean by charge?

Hollow nosed bullets were used at the shooting incident at WHF and are the most lethal:

https://youtu.be/xb9nXeXqEho
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 09:32:43 PM
No idea what you mean by charge?

Hollow nosed bullets were used at the shooting incident at WHF and are the most lethal:

https://youtu.be/xb9nXeXqEho

https://eley.co.uk/eley-subsonic-hollow/
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 07, 2020, 10:29:44 PM
No idea what you mean by charge?

Hollow nosed bullets were used at the shooting incident at WHF and are the most lethal:

https://youtu.be/xb9nXeXqEho

Which sort of proves my point.

Overpressure ammunition, commonly designated as +P or +P+, is small arms ammunition that has been loaded to a higher internal pressure than is standard for ammunition of its caliber (see internal ballistics), but less than the pressures generated by a proof round. This is done typically to produce rounds with a higher muzzle velocity and stopping power, such as ammunition used for defensive purposes. Because of this, +P ammunition is typically found in handgun calibers which might be used for defensive purposes.

Generally, the “magnum” fires precisely the same bullet but it fires it from a longer cartridge. That longer cartridge contains more propellant, so, if the gun is properly engineered, the bullet will leave the gun at a higher velocity than the standard gun/cartridge. ... Magnum means “bigger cartridge”.

As I stated previously, the ammo Bamber was using was only suitable for shooting small animals and birds and not human beings.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: mrswah on February 07, 2020, 10:53:24 PM
Which sort of proves my point.

Overpressure ammunition, commonly designated as +P or +P+, is small arms ammunition that has been loaded to a higher internal pressure than is standard for ammunition of its caliber (see internal ballistics), but less than the pressures generated by a proof round. This is done typically to produce rounds with a higher muzzle velocity and stopping power, such as ammunition used for defensive purposes. Because of this, +P ammunition is typically found in handgun calibers which might be used for defensive purposes.

Generally, the “magnum” fires precisely the same bullet but it fires it from a longer cartridge. That longer cartridge contains more propellant, so, if the gun is properly engineered, the bullet will leave the gun at a higher velocity than the standard gun/cartridge. ... Magnum means “bigger cartridge”.

As I stated previously, the ammo Bamber was using was only suitable for shooting small animals and birds and not human beings.

Wouldn't Bamber have known this, since he was experienced with guns? Why do you think he didn't use a different gun with different ammo?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 07, 2020, 11:04:53 PM
Which sort of proves my point.

Overpressure ammunition, commonly designated as +P or +P+, is small arms ammunition that has been loaded to a higher internal pressure than is standard for ammunition of its caliber (see internal ballistics), but less than the pressures generated by a proof round. This is done typically to produce rounds with a higher muzzle velocity and stopping power, such as ammunition used for defensive purposes. Because of this, +P ammunition is typically found in handgun calibers which might be used for defensive purposes.

Generally, the “magnum” fires precisely the same bullet but it fires it from a longer cartridge. That longer cartridge contains more propellant, so, if the gun is properly engineered, the bullet will leave the gun at a higher velocity than the standard gun/cartridge. ... Magnum means “bigger cartridge”.

As I stated previously, the ammo Bamber was using was only suitable for shooting small animals and birds and not human beings.

Are you suggesting the rifle and ammo used at WHF were insufficient to cause death from a single gunshot to head or major organ?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Eleanor on February 08, 2020, 04:15:40 AM

Perhaps a deranged person did do it.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Myster on February 08, 2020, 06:28:11 AM
Yes, he was deranged... very deranged, with the thoughts of getting one over the cops and a near half-million inheritance he would pocket for very little effort.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 08, 2020, 08:38:56 AM
Yes, he was deranged... very deranged, with the thoughts of getting one over the cops and a near half-million inheritance he would pocket for very little effort.

Or cold and calculated,he thought it through,using so many shots when less may well have been sufficient.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 08, 2020, 08:41:36 AM
Are you suggesting the rifle and ammo used at WHF were insufficient to cause death from a single gunshot to head or major organ?

That was surely the thinking behind Bambers continual shooting,he knew but had to make it look as if it was someone who didn't.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: steve_trousers on February 08, 2020, 09:03:29 AM
Or cold and calculated,he thought it through,using so many shots when less may well have been sufficient.

Indeed, it would serve dual purposes. He could really go to town on his mother for having the temerity to demand repayment for bailing him out in NZ.

Oh yes, he took sick pleasure out of making June suffer alright
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 08, 2020, 09:15:41 AM
Indeed, it would serve dual purposes. He could really go to town on his mother for having the temerity to demand repayment for bailing him out in NZ.

Oh yes, he took sick pleasure out of making June suffer alright

Thats not going to come out in his defence is it.

Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: steve_trousers on February 08, 2020, 09:31:41 AM
Thats not going to come out in his defence is it.

Nope. Remember that sick and twisted 'great bamber bake off' a few years ago? taking a crap on his mothers memory for laughs

Quote
“Jeremy has spoken about his mum’s love of baking and now it’s your turn. It’s time to get creative as Jeremy shares some of his favourite ­childhood ­recipes with us.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1230402/killer-jeremy-bamber-family-murderer-crime-latest

Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: APRIL on February 08, 2020, 10:08:42 AM
That was surely the thinking behind Bambers continual shooting,he knew but had to make it look as if it was someone who didn't.


It was actually rather clever. Similar to Les Dawson, who could play the piano extremely well, giving a deliberately bad performance. It takes some skill.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 08, 2020, 10:19:24 AM

It was actually rather clever. Similar to Les Dawson, who could play the piano extremely well, giving a deliberately bad performance. It takes some skill.

Perversely,Bambers defenders probably don't give him the intelligence.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 08, 2020, 10:35:28 AM
That was surely the thinking behind Bambers continual shooting,he knew but had to make it look as if it was someone who didn't.

And yet in squandering so many bullets it meant the perp had to reload at least twice; a task some think beyond SC's capabilities.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 08, 2020, 10:42:58 AM
And yet in squandering so many bullets it meant the perp had to reload at least twice; a task some think beyond SC's capabilities.

With not a blemish on her perfect nail varnish? squandering bullets as you put it is setting up a crime scene.Any evidence that she was proficient in reloading,remember the defence of Bamber is that Sheila went loopy,is that the act of some one who is not compos mentis?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 08, 2020, 11:11:42 AM
With not a blemish on her perfect nail varnish? squandering bullets as you put it is setting up a crime scene.Any evidence that she was proficient in reloading,remember the defence of Bamber is that Sheila went loopy,is that the act of some one who is not compos mentis?

What experience do you have of polished nails which makes you think if SC was the perp she would have damaged her nails/polish?

Squandering bullets wasn't setting the scene when it meant the perp had to reload at least twice which we're told was beyond SC. 
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Eleanor on February 08, 2020, 11:17:25 AM

So Jeremy Bamber indulges in many wild shots to implicate Sheila and leaves victims able to try to defend themselves.

Sorry, not getting this.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: APRIL on February 08, 2020, 11:52:24 AM
So Jeremy Bamber indulges in many wild shots to implicate Sheila and leaves victims able to try to defend themselves.

Sorry, not getting this.


Ruling out the twins, naturally. I think shock and pain would have incapacitated their ability to defend themselves. The shots may have been wild, but how effective would June's have been with bullets in her legs?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 08, 2020, 11:56:09 AM
What experience do you have of polished nails which makes you think if SC was the perp she would have damaged her nails/polish?

Squandering bullets wasn't setting the scene when it meant the perp had to reload at least twice which we're told was beyond SC.

Do you have evidence it wasn't beyond Sheila,you've just admitted a hole in your reckoning of Bamber's innocence.
It was a cool and calculated murder,which imo by the very reckoning Sheila had gone beserk with the gun according to reports is not obtainable by Sheila.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Myster on February 08, 2020, 12:04:17 PM
So Jeremy Bamber indulges in many wild shots to implicate Sheila and leaves victims able to try to defend themselves.

Sorry, not getting this.
You are right on this point. Bamber planned to take everyone out with head shots whilst they were asleep.  He succeeded with the boys, partially succeeded with Sheila, but almost failed with his parents who must have been awake, aware that something was amiss and so became moving targets making themselves more difficult to hit.  Hence the wild placement until they succumbed as a result of the initial injuries - then four to Nevill's head in the kitchen and two to June's head in the bedroom.  Nevill being forewarned that his life was in danger and stronger than June was quicker to react and attempted to make his way downstairs to escape the volley of shots, call for help from the Foakes family in Pages Lane, or find another weapon to defend himself with.  This is the most logical and reasonable sequence of events.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 08, 2020, 12:07:32 PM
And yet in squandering so many bullets it meant the perp had to reload at least twice; a task some think beyond SC's capabilities.

Jeremy wouldn't have thought that far.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 08, 2020, 12:08:37 PM
So Jeremy Bamber indulges in many wild shots to implicate Sheila and leaves victims able to try to defend themselves.

Sorry, not getting this.

Divide and conquer.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: barrier on February 08, 2020, 12:10:51 PM
Jeremy wouldn't have thought that far.

Yet some try to believe Sheila was capable
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 08, 2020, 06:52:35 PM
Are you suggesting the rifle and ammo used at WHF were insufficient to cause death from a single gunshot to head or major organ?

It was unless that bullet hit a critical part of the body.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 08, 2020, 06:57:30 PM
So Jeremy Bamber indulges in many wild shots to implicate Sheila and leaves victims able to try to defend themselves.

Sorry, not getting this.

Neither am I.  Bamber had to discharge multiple shots because he realised one or two bullets weren't going to work. He shot Nevill several times in the face and shoulder but still he was able to get downstairs and confront his assailant again. Same with June, he shot her in bed but June was able to get up and make for the door before Bamber shot her at point blank between the eyes.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 08, 2020, 07:01:52 PM
Yet some try to believe Sheila was capable

They do and without a scrap of evidence to back them up.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: mrswah on February 08, 2020, 07:16:35 PM
Yet some try to believe Sheila was capable


Some DO believe!
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: John on February 09, 2020, 12:32:30 AM
Yet some try to believe Sheila was capable

They have to because they cannot bear the alternative.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: jelgoon on February 09, 2020, 01:46:52 AM
I read the other day that its very difficult to load the last bullet when reloading a semi-automatic. Of course Sheila didn't do it. The suggestion of a miscarriage of justice here is sickening and, as Leo McKinstry wrote recently, morally repugnant. The tv drama has got it totally right. Just as well that Bamber hasnt got a prayer of ever getting out. I was in the Divisional Court back in November 2012 for Bamber’s so-called groundbreaking Judicial Review which was going to lead to a new appeal within a few months according to his solicitor. Sir John Thomas (President of the Queen’s Bench Division at the time and later to become Lord Chief Justice) threw the whole thing out in less than an hour - Bamber couldnt even get permission to apply for Judicial Review. No wonder firms like Birnbergs, Bindmans etc wouldnt touch this case with a barge pole.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 09, 2020, 03:10:59 PM
They do and without a scrap of evidence to back them up.

It is a belief for them I would say, and possibly infatuation with some.

 If Good looks were a sign of innocence he would not even have been charged!
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: John on February 09, 2020, 03:24:14 PM
I read the other day that its very difficult to load the last bullet when reloading a semi-automatic. Of course Sheila didn't do it. The suggestion of a miscarriage of justice here is sickening and, as Leo McKinstry wrote recently, morally repugnant. The tv drama has got it totally right. Just as well that Bamber hasnt got a prayer of ever getting out. I was in the Divisional Court back in November 2012 for Bamber’s so-called groundbreaking Judicial Review which was going to lead to a new appeal within a few months according to his solicitor. Sir John Thomas (President of the Queen’s Bench Division at the time and later to become Lord Chief Justice) threw the whole thing out in less than an hour - Bamber couldnt even get permission to apply for Judicial Review. No wonder firms like Birnbergs, Bindmans etc wouldnt touch this case with a barge pole.

I totally agree. Sheila could never have shot Nevill in the bedroom as he would have overpowered her instantly after the first shot. It took someone with cunning and a imposing physical presence to take that first shot then stand back and fire several more times.

The bit we might never know though is how Nevill got out the door past his assailant. Did the gun jam or was Nevill stunned and fell to the floor only to regain consciousness and then make his way downstairs while Bamber was reloading the rifle?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 09, 2020, 06:02:37 PM
I totally agree. Sheila could never have shot Nevill in the bedroom as he would have overpowered her instantly after the first shot. It took someone with cunning and a imposing physical presence to take that first shot then stand back and fire several more times.

The bit we might never know though is how Nevill got out the door past his assailant. Did the gun jam or was Nevill stunned and fell to the floor only to regain consciousness and then make his way downstairs while Bamber was reloading the rifle?

I must admit, I held my breath when JM mentioned about the kitchen window latch- I thought 'oh she may have been more involved that first thought'. but then it all made sense- He lied about an accomplice/hitman. How could she have known about the window unless JM told her.  I also got the feeling while watching that he would have ;loved to have bragged about it to others.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 09, 2020, 08:36:00 PM
I must admit, I held my breath when JM mentioned about the kitchen window latch- I thought 'oh she may have been more involved that first thought'. but then it all made sense- He lied about an accomplice/hitman. How could she have known about the window unless JM told her.  I also got the feeling while watching that he would have ;loved to have bragged about it to others.

Known what about the window?  Had judge and jury been taken to see the windows for themselves I might think you had a point.  As it stands it's mere speculation but as the judge said how he got there, entered and exited matters not...  *%87

Oh OK then you must know I mean with you being learned and the judge!
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: James55 on February 09, 2020, 09:48:27 PM
Everyone is lying. The police stitched him up, JM stitched him up. Oh and Boutflour family are lying too.. blah blah.
The only decent honest person in this story is Jeremy, he was a decent and honest man lol. Even Brett is now admitting he thinks JB is a murdering psychopath.
Im sure there are many folk in prison who deserve their cases being reviewed. JB is not one of them.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 10, 2020, 09:56:58 AM
Everyone is lying. The police stitched him up, JM stitched him up. Oh and Boutflour family are lying too.. blah blah.
The only decent honest person in this story is Jeremy, he was a decent and honest man lol. Even Brett is now admitting he thinks JB is a murdering psychopath.
Im sure there are many folk in prison who deserve their cases being reviewed. JB is not one of them.

Unreliable testimony from lay witnesesses and experts are usually features of miscrriages of justice.

Where does the newspaper article re BC mention the word psychopath? 
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 10, 2020, 09:59:59 AM
I read the other day that its very difficult to load the last bullet when reloading a semi-automatic. Of course Sheila didn't do it. The suggestion of a miscarriage of justice here is sickening and, as Leo McKinstry wrote recently, morally repugnant. The tv drama has got it totally right. Just as well that Bamber hasnt got a prayer of ever getting out. I was in the Divisional Court back in November 2012 for Bamber’s so-called groundbreaking Judicial Review which was going to lead to a new appeal within a few months according to his solicitor. Sir John Thomas (President of the Queen’s Bench Division at the time and later to become Lord Chief Justice) threw the whole thing out in less than an hour - Bamber couldnt even get permission to apply for Judicial Review. No wonder firms like Birnbergs, Bindmans etc wouldnt touch this case with a barge pole.

I didn't find it difficult but regardless why did SC need to load the mag to full capacity?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 10, 2020, 01:37:00 PM
Neither am I.  Bamber had to discharge multiple shots because he realised one or two bullets weren't going to work. He shot Nevill several times in the face and shoulder but still he was able to get downstairs and confront his assailant again. Same with June, he shot her in bed but June was able to get up and make for the door before Bamber shot her at point blank between the eyes.

The above defies the laws of physics.

The UK gov considers the lowest level of muzzle energy capable of inflicting a penetrating wound is one foot pound.

The tech spec from Eley shows the cartridges at WHF:

Weight = 38 grains
Mean muzzle velocity = 1040 ft/s

Enter the above data into the convertor to find out the feet pound is 90. 

If only 1 foot pound is required to inflict a penetrating wound I think its fairly obvious what the effect of 90 feet pound will be.

So many cartridges were required as the perp was an inexperienced shooter.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/9504.htm

https://eley.co.uk/eley-subsonic-hollow/

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 10, 2020, 02:22:14 PM
The above defies the laws of physics.

The UK gov considers the lowest level of muzzle energy capable of inflicting a penetrating wound is one foot pound.

The tech spec from Eley shows the cartridges at WHF:

Weight = 38 grains
Mean muzzle velocity = 1040 ft/s

Enter the above data into the convertor to find out the feet pound is 90. 

If only 1 foot pound is required to inflict a penetrating wound I think its fairly obvious what the effect of 90 feet pound will be.

So many cartridges were required as the perp was an inexperienced shooter.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/9504.htm

https://eley.co.uk/eley-subsonic-hollow/

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php

Jeremy Bamber was inexperienced at shooting people.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Myster on February 10, 2020, 02:37:56 PM
Jeremy Bamber was inexperienced at shooting people.
Except when they were asleep.  8((()*/
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Eleanor on February 10, 2020, 02:42:33 PM
Jeremy Bamber was inexperienced at shooting people.

There is a difference, is there?  What might that be?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 10, 2020, 03:40:13 PM
Jeremy Bamber was inexperienced at shooting people.

Yes he was a marksman at Greshams and no doubt proficient at shooting vermin around the farm at distance so shooting sleeping children and mobile adults at close range would not have been a problem.  He certainly would not have required 25/26 cartridges.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Angelo222 on February 10, 2020, 03:55:05 PM
Yes he was a marksman at Greshams and no doubt proficient at shooting vermin around the farm at distance so shooting sleeping children and mobile adults at close range would not have been a problem.  He certainly would not have required 25/26 cartridges.

Obviously he did. He put several bullets in each of the children's head as they slept when one would have sufficed.  He was certainly making sure that no-one survived.  His peashooter rifle wasn't the killing machine he thought it was.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: APRIL on February 10, 2020, 04:14:04 PM
Yes he was a marksman at Greshams and no doubt proficient at shooting vermin around the farm at distance so shooting sleeping children and mobile adults at close range would not have been a problem.  He certainly would not have required 25/26 cartridges.


No he wouldn't, but he wasn't shooting as Jeremy. Sheila would have.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 10, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
There is a difference, is there?  What might that be?

You don't think there is a difference between shooting a target or what is described as 'vermin' and shooting a human being?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 10, 2020, 06:26:57 PM
Yes he was a marksman at Greshams and no doubt proficient at shooting vermin around the farm at distance so shooting sleeping children and mobile adults at close range would not have been a problem.  He certainly would not have required 25/26 cartridges.

He was a 'marksman' really? Perhaps he enjoyed the shoot and that's why he used so many shells - who knows but that's what he did.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 10, 2020, 07:17:27 PM
Obviously he did. He put several bullets in each of the children's head as they slept when one would have sufficed.  He was certainly making sure that no-one survived.  His peashooter rifle wasn't the killing machine he thought it was.

The physics show the lethality of the rifle.  And if further evidenced is required the pathological evidence details the number of exit wounds.

So many cartridges were used as SC was all over the place inflicting graze only wounds and shots to limbs.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 10, 2020, 07:27:55 PM

No he wouldn't, but he wasn't shooting as Jeremy. Sheila would have.

But by squandering so many bullets it meant SC had to reload twice; a task many think was beyond her capabilities.  If JB was shooting as SC he could have said he left a cartridge in the breech and a full mag of 10: a fatal head shot for each victim and 6 random shots to lend support to an experienced shooter.
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Holly Goodhead on February 10, 2020, 07:37:54 PM
He was a 'marksman' really? Perhaps he enjoyed the shoot and that's why he used so many shells - who knows but that's what he did.

I thought his claims about bunny hunting earlier were bogus and just a rue to set the scene for SC going crazy with the gun?  Ie it was all primed for SC along with a full magazine and yet so many bullets were squandered it required at least two reloads?
Title: Re: White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 5
Post by: Caroline on February 10, 2020, 07:40:28 PM
But by squandering so many bullets it meant SC had to reload twice; a task many think was beyond her capabilities.  If JB was shooting as SC he could have said he left a cartridge in the breech and a full mag of 10: a fatal head shot for each victim and 6 random shots to lend support to an experienced shooter.

He could have done many things, but he didn't. Only he knows why.