UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: G-Unit on March 13, 2020, 09:54:57 PM
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It has been said that the perp was standing at the bottom of the double bed when s/he opened fire. Why then did June Bamber move towards the perp when she got out of bed instead of making for the door nearest to her?
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Bamber was not in the bedroom when June got out of bed. He was in the kitchen.
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Bamber was not in the bedroom when June got out of bed. He was in the kitchen.
So you are saying that Nevill and June were in bed and the perp fired ten(?) shots from the bottom of the bed. Was that five into June's right hand side and four into Nevill's left hand side?
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So you are saying that Nevill and June were in bed and the perp fired ten(?) shots from the bottom of the bed. Was that five into June's right hand side and four into Nevill's left hand side?
It was 9 shots. Two more shots were fired into June later.
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It has been said that the perp was standing at the bottom of the double bed when s/he opened fire. Why then did June Bamber move towards the perp when she got out of bed instead of making for the door nearest to her?
All concerned agree June was shot initially when her head was on the pillow as per the blood stains, bullets in pillow and gsw's. It seems she then moved to leave the bed and as you said all the gsw's at that stage were to her right side. If NB was in the kitchen on the tel to JB and hearing the sound of gunshot dropped the phone to run upstairs I believe the perp, SC imo, swung round 90 degrees and inflicted the gsw's to NB's face as he was stood on the landing. NB then turned to retreat downstairs and SC followed leaving June to walk around the bed and back again.
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Just to clarify at trial it was agreed June sustained a total of 7 entry gunshot wounds and 1 bruise only wound. This is important in context of casings and spent bullets.
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If the twins were shot first, once each, it shows how confident Bamber was. He believed he could shoot two 6 year olds & the adults would continue sleeping.
The silencer would have helped give him confidence.
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It has been said that the perp was standing at the bottom of the double bed when s/he opened fire. Why then did June Bamber move towards the perp when she got out of bed instead of making for the door nearest to her?
When you consider the distance of shots, the fact NB sustained 2 gsw's to his rear and the trajectories and wound tracks it is impossible to reconcile because it didn't happen that way.
At trial Dr V confirmed the gsw NB sustained to his shoulder was fired from above. NB was 6' 4", JB 6'0", SC 5'7.5" and the rifle 48" long. Did the perp stand on the bed or chair or shoot from a loft hatch? The logical answer is NB was positioned below the perp due to the fact he was on the staircase with the perp behind and higher up the staircase.
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Bamber entered the main bedroom with 9 bullets, intending to fire 8.
That plan went out of the window when Nevill started moving & the rifle was emptied. Which is not surprising as Nevill is a big man & intimidating figure.
If Bamber had entered the main bedroom with 11 bullets, Nevill would have received 6 upstairs shots as Bamber emptied the rifle in panic.
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So Julie's claim that the twins were shot first, does make sense.
One bullet each into each sleeping twin would have been the most straight forward of the executions & would have quickly negated 2 of the 5 targets without waking anyone.
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It was 9 shots. Two more shots were fired into June later.
So five shots to June's right hand side. They hit the lower part of her neck, her right forearm, two hit the right side of the chest and another her right knee. At the same time Nevill was shot in his left hand side. His injuries included his lip, his jaw, his shoulder and his arm. Were there only nine bullets in the gun?
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So five shots to June's right hand side. They hit the lower part of her neck, her right forearm, two hit the right side of the chest and another her right knee. At the same time Nevill was shot in his left hand side. His injuries included his lip, his jaw, his shoulder and his arm. Were there only nine bullets in the gun?
If there were 11 bullets, they would have been emptied once Nevill started moving. Only 9 were fired.
There were reasons why he would shoot the twins first with one shot each. Julie said she was told the twins were shot first.
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So Julie's claim that the twins were shot first, does make sense.
One bullet each into each sleeping twin would have been the most straight forward of the executions & would have quickly negated 2 of the 5 targets without waking anyone.
One bullet into each sleeping twin contradicts the pathological evidence.
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One bullet into each sleeping twin contradicts the pathological evidence.
This is based on the very probable intial attempt by Bamber of an 11 shot massacre.
Two into the twins.
One into Sheila.
Eight into June and Nevill.
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An advantage of this is that Sheila would not have had to reload twice. Bamber could also claim that he left the rifle fully loaded with the magazine attached.
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A successful 11 shot massacre would have had the bedroom phone in the bedroom. Off the hook. As both Nevill & June would have been in there.
Once the 11 shot massacre failed, the other plan was executed - the overkill of a crazed woman.
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An 11 shot massacre was possible. But one thing not going to plan & it would fail. A risky massacre/frame attempt if that was his only chance.
However Plan B - the overkill would go into operation if Plan A failed.
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A successful 11 shot massacre would have had the bedroom phone in the bedroom. Off the hook. As both Nevill & June would have been in there.
Once the 11 shot massacre failed, the other plan was executed - the overkill of a crazed woman.
So you think the perp took a full magazine upstairs plus one extra bullet?
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A successful 11 shot massacre would have negated a lot of the current incriminating evidence -
Sheila re loading. Twice.
The kitchen fight.
The paint on the silencer.
Sheila being shot twice.
Nevill's back burns.
Nevill being lifted onto a coal scuttle.
The bedroom phone in the kitchen.
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The relatives may have still searched for and found the silencer. But the prosecution would have had a weaker case.
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AE did not believe Sheila could have reloaded or defeated Nevill in a fight.
These would not be an issue in an 11 shot massacre. She may have been persuaded that Sheila could have shot the sleeping twins, a sleeping June & committed suicide.
But surely AE would not have believed that Nevill would have rang Jeremy or not attempted to disarm Sheila when fully fit.
We'll never know if she would have still gone WHF evidence hunting.
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You can see why Jeremy went for the inheritance killing.
A successful 11 shot massacre would have put him in a much stronger position. The lack of gun shot residue on Sheila's nightdress being the most serious obvious & intial incriminating forensic evidence.
But if the 11 shot massacre didn't work, there was a Plan B. Decades later people still believe the completed Plan B shows he is innocent.
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So you think the perp took a full magazine upstairs plus one extra bullet?
The magazine only holds ten bullets but an extra one can also be pre-loaded in the breach ready to fire.
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So you think the perp took a full magazine upstairs plus one extra bullet?
The mag holds ten plus 1 in the breech. If JB was responsible he would have gone tooled up to the max ie 11.
June sustained 5 entry gsw's and 1 bruise only wound in the first round. NB sustained 3 entry gsw's and 1 graze only wound upstairs.
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The mag holds ten plus 1 in the breech. If JB was responsible he would have gone tooled up to the max ie 11.
June sustained 5 entry gsw's and 1 bruise only wound in the first round. NB sustained 3 entry gsw's and 1 graze only wound upstairs.
He had the option of fully loading the evening before or downstairs after arriving through the window.
Suspect he fully.loaded at supper. Then checked a few hours later upon arrival, before going upstairs.
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The magazine only holds ten bullets but an extra one can also be pre-loaded in the breach ready to fire.
As I understand it ten bullets are loaded into the magazine and one of them is loaded into the breech by pulling the cocking lever.
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As I understand it ten bullets are loaded into the magazine and one of them is loaded into the breech by pulling the cocking lever.
And then pop another in the mag.
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A 11 shot massacre attempt may have Bamber planning to put the silencer away in advance. If he knew in advance Sheila could not reach the trigger with it on.
Sheila would not have had to do anything complicated. Such as reload. So why leave evidence next to her of an unscrewed silencer?
Once Sheila had to reload, he still decided to put the silencer away. The use of a silencer is likely in a quiet massacre attempt but Sheila was supposed to have gone crazy.
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And then pop another in the mag.
So completely fill the magazine, attach it to the rifle and cock it to put one cartridge in the breech. Then remove the magazine again and put another cartridge into it. Does cocking it then release the new cardridge into the breech too?
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So completely fill the magazine, attach it to the rifle and cock it to put one cartridge in the breech. Then remove the magazine again and put another cartridge into it. Does cocking it then release the new cardridge into the breech too?
As soon as a bullet in the breach has been fired, the resultant explosive gases force the firing pin mechanism back to recock automatically, leaving room for the next cartridge to load itself by means of a compressed spring in the magazine.
The Anschutz 525 magazine is similar to this one but holds more cartridges... https://youtu.be/o1RgW9KFqBE?t=75 (https://youtu.be/o1RgW9KFqBE?t=75)
Skip to loading the magazine here... https://youtu.be/o1RgW9KFqBE?t=454 (https://youtu.be/o1RgW9KFqBE?t=454)
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As soon as a bullet in the breach has been fired, the resultant explosive gases force the firing pin mechanism back to recock automatically, leaving room for the next cartridge to load itself by means of a compressed spring in the magazine.
The Anschutz 525 magazine is similar to this one but holds more cartridges... https://youtu.be/o1RgW9KFqBE?t=75 (https://youtu.be/o1RgW9KFqBE?t=75)
Skip to loading the magazine here... https://youtu.be/o1RgW9KFqBE?t=454 (https://youtu.be/o1RgW9KFqBE?t=454)
So you cock the rifle after attaching the magazine the first time, but not after attaching it the second time?
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So you cock the rifle after attaching the magazine the first time, but not after attaching it the second time?
If there's a new cartridge already in the breach waiting to be fired, then there is no need to cock the bolt (with attached firing pin) and trigger again after inserting a freshly-loaded magazine. If there's no cartridge at all in the breach, then you have to cock the trigger manually, like this chap is doing at the beginning of the video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNrlfDPC_xs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNrlfDPC_xs)
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If there's a new cartridge already in the breach waiting to be fired, then there is no need to cock the bolt (with attached firing pin) and trigger again after inserting a freshly-loaded magazine. If there's no cartridge at all in the breach, then you have to cock the trigger manually, like this chap is doing at the beginning of the video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNrlfDPC_xs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNrlfDPC_xs)
None of which sounds as if it can be absorbed easily by anyone who isn't gun savvy.
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If there's a new cartridge already in the breach waiting to be fired, then there is no need to cock the bolt (with attached firing pin) and trigger again after inserting a freshly-loaded magazine. If there's no cartridge at all in the breach, then you have to cock the trigger manually, like this chap is doing at the beginning of the video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNrlfDPC_xs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNrlfDPC_xs)
I see. Not the recommended method of proceeding as the gun should be empty before attaching the magazine, but it's possible. My only comment is to wonder if Bamber knew this was possible as he was no expert as far as I know.
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None of which sounds as if it can be absorbed easily by anyone who isn't gun savvy.
This might illustrate the action better. It isn't an Anschutz and there's no magazine shown, but the principle is the same. The combined bolt and firing pin are pulled back to cock the trigger, the cartridge being loaded automatically into the breech (correct spelling this time) by a spring in the magazine. Pulling the trigger causes the firing pin to strike the brass casing and ignite the explosive mixture within it, which then propels the lead bullet forward at high speed. In an Anschutz, the explosion also causes the now empty brass casing and bolt to shoot backwards and reset the trigger ready for another shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKa4OQBejKQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKa4OQBejKQ)
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I see. Not the recommended method of proceeding as the gun should be empty before attaching the magazine, but it's possible. My only comment is to wonder if Bamber knew this was possible as he was no expert as far as I know.
Bamber did know, he talks about removing the magazine and the bullet in the breach. Not sure where you got the notion that Bamber was a gun novice - that's far from true and he had had that particular rifle for about 9/10 months.
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I see. Not the recommended method of proceeding as the gun should be empty before attaching the magazine, but it's possible. My only comment is to wonder if Bamber knew this was possible as he was no expert as far as I know.
He certainly would know, after training whilst at Gresham's, using the rifle to shoot vermin around the farm, and target practice with Anthony Pargeter. Although the rifle was almost new, he was no stranger to how it operated.
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He certainly would know, after training whilst at Gresham's, using the rifle to shoot vermin around the farm, and target practice with Anthony Pargeter. Although the rifle was almost new, he was no stranger to how it operated.
He was also at shoots with his father. I don't imagine he was a beater.
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So you think the perp took a full magazine upstairs plus one extra bullet?
Why do you keep calling the convicted mass murderer, Jeremy Bamber “the perp”?
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I see. Not the recommended method of proceeding as the gun should be empty before attaching the magazine, but it's possible. My only comment is to wonder if Bamber knew this was possible as he was no expert as far as I know.
Do you mean to say you never knew Jeremy Bamber was experienced with guns????!
There’s photos of him holding them when he was a young teen!
He went shooting at school, too
And he frequently shot in the farm...and showed great interest in guns; even going with Nevill to buy the rifle he eventually used to slay his family. In fact, it’s alleged that HE encouraged Nevill to buy that particular rifle as it was ideal for what he had in mind....
I’m flabbergasted you seem clueless about Jeremy’s shooting experience — you post as though you know everything about him 8**8:/:
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I agree that (from what I've read), Jeremy Bamber was experienced with guns and knew exactly how to use them.
I also understand that he did go with Nevill to buy the rifle used in the murders. However, AFAIK, there is no evidence that, at that point, he had planned to use it to murder his family.
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I agree that (from what I've read), Jeremy Bamber was experienced with guns and knew exactly how to use them.
I also understand that he did go with Nevill to buy the rifle used in the murders. However, AFAIK, there is no evidence that, at that point, he had planned to use it to murder his family.
But it seems he already had murder in mind. The method may not have been decided.
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Bamber did know, he talks about removing the magazine and the bullet in the breach. Not sure where you got the notion that Bamber was a gun novice - that's far from true and he had had that particular rifle for about 9/10 months.
Wasn't he describing unloading? He followed the correct procedure; remove the magazine then clear the one remaining cartridge from the breech. He put it back into the magazine. That doesn't mean he knew that he could leave that cartridge in there and add a full magazine too.
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He was also at shoots with his father. I don't imagine he was a beater.
Shoots normally involve shotguns, not rifles.
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Wasn't he describing unloading? He followed the correct procedure; remove the magazine then clear the one remaining cartridge from the breech. He put it back into the magazine. That doesn't mean he knew that he could leave that cartridge in there and add a full magazine too.
You make it sound as if he was a rank amateur. He went with Nevill to buy the weapon at Radcliffe's, a family gunsmith of high renown, still in business today. I feel certain they'd have gone through the workings very thoroughly, and I have no doubt that they wouldn't have left until Nevill had satisfied himself that Jeremy understood them fully. I think Jeremy would have been keen to demonstrate his prowess.
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He certainly would know, after training whilst at Gresham's, using the rifle to shoot vermin around the farm, and target practice with Anthony Pargeter. Although the rifle was almost new, he was no stranger to how it operated.
I doubt anyone would be trained to overload a gun, which is what is being described. He and Pargeter shot ten shots each at a brick according to CAL. That's a magazine each.
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I doubt anyone would be trained to overload a gun, which is what is being described. He and Pargeter shot ten shots each at a brick according to CAL. That's a magazine each.
The simple fact is you dont know and cannot ever know whether or not Jeremy knew how to overload the gun. You can doubt all you like, your opinion really has no weight as you have no meaningful evidence upon which to base it.
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The simple fact is you dont know and cannot ever know whether or not Jeremy knew how to overload the gun. You can doubt all you like, your opinion really has no weight as you have no meaningful evidence upon which to base it.
Neither have those hypothesising that the gun was overloaded.
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I doubt anyone would be trained to overload a gun, which is what is being described. He and Pargeter shot ten shots each at a brick according to CAL. That's a magazine each.
That's not over-loading at all! And shooting at a target has what to do with the murders?
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Wasn't he describing unloading? He followed the correct procedure; remove the magazine then clear the one remaining cartridge from the breech. He put it back into the magazine. That doesn't mean he knew that he could leave that cartridge in there and add a full magazine too.
It really does seem that you'll argue about anything. Unless he was an idiot of course he would know. Do you honestly think that the gun came without any instructions? But you don't really need those to work out that if one bullet is in the breech, it leaves one space in the magazine and if you're wanting to maximise capacity then you would take advantage.v
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Neither have those hypothesising that the gun was overloaded.
That fact that Jeremy knew how to use and operate the rifle is proof, suggesting that he wouldn't know is just silly.
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It really does seem that you'll argue about anything. Unless he was an idiot of course he would know. Do you honestly think that the gun came without any instructions? But you don't really need those to work out that if one bullet is in the breech, it leaves one space in the magazine and if you're wanting to maximise capacity then you would take advantage.v
I have the instructions and 'how to overload' is not in there.
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I have the instructions and 'how to overload' is not in there.
It's not overloading! It's common sense - never used a gun in my life and I could work out that you can load 11 rounds. Jeremy was well used to guns and Pargetter even more so. I don't think either would be wearing a puzzled look if you asked them about the 11th bullet.
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It's not overloading! It's common sense - never used a gun in my life and I could work out that you can load 11 rounds. Jeremy was well used to guns and Pargetter even more so. I don't think either would be wearing a puzzled look if you asked them about the 11th bullet.
There is the small matter of the lack of evidence of overloading of course, so it's a moot point.
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There is the small matter of the lack of evidence of overloading of course, so it's a moot point.
It remains a possibility so it's not moot at all.
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There is the small matter of the lack of evidence of overloading of course, so it's a moot point.
If Sheila was responsible, the gun would have been plastered in her prints. Shoot, shoot, reload, reload, turn around, batter, batter, turn back, reload, shoot herself, oops, gone wrong, shoot again.
So. Where are her prints? Where is her sweat? Where is the blood from the fight in the kitchen?
Where is the evidence on her nightie, her legs, her hands? The spatter that would have come from Nevill and the last shots to June?
Where is the blood that she would have coughed out when her throat was shattered, but she still had the wherewithall to move the gun and shoot herself again?
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If Sheila was responsible, the gun would have been plastered in her prints. Shoot, shoot, reload, reload, turn around, batter, batter, turn back, reload, shoot herself, oops, gone wrong, shoot again.
So. Where are her prints? Where is her sweat? Where is the blood from the fight in the kitchen?
Where is the evidence on her nightie, her legs, her hands? The spatter that would have come from Nevill and the last shots to June?
Where is the blood that she would have coughed out when her throat was shattered, but she still had the wherewithall to move the gun and shoot herself again?
I understand why batty old women want Bamber to be innocent, but when seemingly intelligent people want to set free an obvious pyscho, who would kill again in a heartbeat, it scrambles my brain.
There was never a single moment when Nevill would take his eyes off Sheila if she was holding a loaded gun. Bearing in mind Sheila could no more use that (JB'S) gun than I could grow wings and have dinner on the moon.
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If Sheila was responsible, the gun would have been plastered in her prints. Shoot, shoot, reload, reload, turn around, batter, batter, turn back, reload, shoot herself, oops, gone wrong, shoot again.
So. Where are her prints? Where is her sweat? Where is the blood from the fight in the kitchen?
Where is the evidence on her nightie, her legs, her hands? The spatter that would have come from Nevill and the last shots to June?
Where is the blood that she would have coughed out when her throat was shattered, but she still had the wherewithall to move the gun and shoot herself again?
Yes, what are Bamber supporters counter arguments to these rather salient points? I guess when all else fails blame cover up and / or incompetence to explain it.
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You make it sound as if he was a rank amateur. He went with Nevill to buy the weapon at Radcliffe's, a family gunsmith of high renown, still in business today. I feel certain they'd have gone through the workings very thoroughly, and I have no doubt that they wouldn't have left until Nevill had satisfied himself that Jeremy understood them fully. I think Jeremy would have been keen to demonstrate his prowess.
It was Jeremy who actually persuaded Nevill to buy that rifle — so he was hardly a novice
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It was Jeremy who actually persuaded Nevill to buy that rifle — so he was hardly a novice
He actually wanted an automatic shot gun!
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He actually wanted an automatic shot gun!
And why would someone who proclaimed he had scant experience in shooting; claimed he didn’t enjoy shooting; claimed he was so useless at targeting he couldn’t hit a barn door, show such interest in what rifle Nevill was buying and even encouraged him which one to go for?
He even went to the gun shop with Nevill to try and influence Nevill, so as you rightly say, Caroline...Jeremy showed a strange amount of interest in something he claimed he had no interest in 😌
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I agree that (from what I've read), Jeremy Bamber was experienced with guns and knew exactly how to use them.
I also understand that he did go with Nevill to buy the rifle used in the murders. However, AFAIK, there is no evidence that, at that point, he had planned to use it to murder his family.
So don’t you think it’s suspicious that Jeremy told the police he was an inexperienced shooter and had hardly ever used a gun, when in fact, he was hugely experienced and even won an award at school for shooting?
Why would he lie to the police? For what? What was he trying to hide?
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Shoots normally involve shotguns, not rifles.
It’s funny you said that: Jeremy tried to purchase a shotgun just months before he murdered his family...
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It’s funny you said that: Jeremy tried to purchase a shotgun just months before he murdered his family...
For pigeon shooting with the landlord from his local pub, The Chequers.
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It’s funny you said that: Jeremy tried to purchase a shotgun just months before he murdered his family...
Tried?
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So don’t you think it’s suspicious that Jeremy told the police he was an inexperienced shooter and had hardly ever used a gun, when in fact, he was hugely experienced and even won an award at school for shooting?
Why would he lie to the police? For what? What was he trying to hide?
He didn't lie to the police. He told them about achieving a marksman at school:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1270
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For pigeon shooting with the landlord from his local pub, The Chequers.
Jeremy didn’t bother to go though...
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Tried?
For some reason the shop wouldn’t sell him one...
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He didn't lie to the police. He told them about achieving a marksman at school:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1270
No, he admitted that in one of his versions to the police
In one version he told them he was a useless shot and couldn’t even shoot a barn door
As always, you’ll ask me for a link...which I will find for you, although it’s well-documented
A few clicks and you could find it yourself 😚
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For some reason the shop wouldn’t sell him one...
Who said?
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Who said?
JB didn't have a firearms licence. He didn't go on shoots and when he used firearms around WHF they were all registered to NB under his licence.
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Who said?
It's not as simple as "Who said?". Radcliffe's is a reputable company who wouldn't sell a weapon inappropriate to anyone's needs. Jeremy had already asked Peter Eton about a certain model for a specific purpose. PE told him it wouldn't be a sportsmanlike weapon to use for the purpose. Radcliffe's would undoubtedly have given him the same answer.
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JB didn't have a firearms licence. He didn't go on shoots and when he used firearms around WHF they were all registered to NB under his licence.
He certainly did go on shoots. He was always on the shoots my neighbour attended with Nevill. Whether or not he actually shot anything, I couldn't say. I would be odd, though, if having won prizes for it at school, he wasn't keen to show'm how it was done.
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It's not as simple as "Who said?". Radcliffe's is a reputable company who wouldn't sell a weapon inappropriate to anyone's needs. Jeremy had already asked Peter Eton about a certain model for a specific purpose. PE told him it wouldn't be a sportsmanlike weapon to use for the purpose. Radcliffe's would undoubtedly have given him the same answer.
It's not possible to buy a shotgun without showing a shotgun licence. As Jeremy Bamber didn't have a licence he wouldn't have been able to buy a shotgun anyway.
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It's not possible to buy a shotgun without showing a shotgun licence. As Jeremy Bamber didn't have a licence he wouldn't have been able to buy a shotgun anyway.
He wanted Nevill to buy it on his behalf.
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He wanted Nevill to buy it on his behalf.
I don't know if he approached his father or any gun retailers. Where did that evidence appear please?
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I don't know if he approached his father or any gun retailers. Where did that evidence appear please?
Jeremy Bamber asked around about shotguns and went to the gunsmith enquiring about purchasing one
It’s in CAL’s book
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Jeremy Bamber asked around about shotguns and went to the gunsmith enquiring about purchasing one
It’s in CAL’s book
He asked Peter Eaton (AE's hubby) who was a registered gun dealer about purchasing a shotgun to go pigeon shooting with the landlord from his local pub. All of which was checked out by EP.
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He asked Peter Eaton (AE's hubby) who was a registered gun dealer about purchasing a shotgun to go pigeon shooting with the landlord from his local pub. All of which was checked out by EP.
And rather gives lie to the assertion that he never went shooting.
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And rather gives lie to the assertion that he never went shooting.
I think most will agree there's a difference between shooting game (for pleasure) and shooting vermin to manage crops.
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So the two ducks he shot and gave to Christine Bacon don't count, do they?
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He asked Peter Eaton (AE's hubby) who was a registered gun dealer about purchasing a shotgun to go pigeon shooting with the landlord from his local pub. All of which was checked out by EP.
A five-shot automatic 12 bore. Mmm... that's one cartridge for each member of the family.
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I think most will agree there's a difference between shooting game (for pleasure) and shooting vermin to manage crops.
Indeed. Then why did he want to go pigeon shooting?
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He asked Peter Eaton (AE's hubby) who was a registered gun dealer about purchasing a shotgun to go pigeon shooting with the landlord from his local pub. All of which was checked out by EP.
According to David Boutflour on 17/12/85 his sister Ann Eaton recently told him that it was Peter Eaton, Ann's husband who was selling the five shot automatic shotgun. That seems to rule Radcliffes out of the equation.
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So the two ducks he shot and gave to Christine Bacon don't count, do they?
Did he shoot two ducks to give to CB?
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Indeed. Then why did he want to go pigeon shooting?
Pigeons are considered vermin.
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He asked Peter Eaton (AE's hubby) who was a registered gun dealer about purchasing a shotgun to go pigeon shooting with the landlord from his local pub. All of which was checked out by EP.
He didn't ask about an ordinary shotgun, he asked about an automatic.
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Pigeons are considered vermin.
Or "pest species".
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He didn't ask about an ordinary shotgun, he asked about an automatic.
I'm not surprised he wanted an auto for pigeon shooting a bit odd if he didn't.
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I think most will agree there's a difference between shooting game (for pleasure) and shooting vermin to manage crops.
When asked why he wanted the gun, he said "I rather fancy myself as the country squire sort" - where in that does he stated he wanted it for vermin?
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Did he shoot two ducks to give to CB?
'Course he did, but she offloaded them to her neighbour
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Pigeons are considered vermin.
Not when they're the main ingredient of a scrumptious pigeon pie cooked in an AGA...
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/pigeon-pies-bramble-gravy (https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/pigeon-pies-bramble-gravy)
https://youtu.be/sQsfF1JHYpk?t=64 (https://youtu.be/sQsfF1JHYpk?t=64)
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Not when they're the main ingredient of a scrumptious pigeon pie cooked in an AGA...
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/pigeon-pies-bramble-gravy (https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/pigeon-pies-bramble-gravy)
https://youtu.be/sQsfF1JHYpk?t=64 (https://youtu.be/sQsfF1JHYpk?t=64)
ICK!
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Pigeons are considered vermin.
Wood pigeons aren’t
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Wood pigeons aren’t
Ergo, claims are erroneous that Jeremy didn't participate in blood sports. Incidentally, if he was shooting with the landlord of his local, I'll willing to bet that much of the day's kill ended up on the menu of that excellent hostelry!!!!
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Ergo, claims are erroneous that Jeremy didn't participate in blood sports. Incidentally, if he was shooting with the landlord of his local, I'll willing to bet that much of the day's kill ended up on the menu of that excellent hostelry!!!!
Absolutely!
The lazy greedy Jeremy Bamber never did anything for nothing — he’d have charged the pub landlord for any birds he’d killed, and they don’t come cheap. My nephew shoots and the money that changes hands for birds such as pheasants etc is astonishing!
So Jeremy Bamber certainly wouldn’t have gone shooting without getting paid!
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Absolutely!
The lazy greedy Jeremy Bamber never did anything for nothing — he’d have charged the pub landlord for any birds he’d killed, and they don’t come cheap. My nephew shoots and the money that changes hands for birds such as pheasants etc is astonishing!
So Jeremy Bamber certainly wouldn’t have gone shooting without getting paid!
Possibly he got paid in kind----ie free drinks and meals in the pub in exchange for whatever he gave the landlord. Im sure I read that he had such an arrangement in respect to crops grown at the farm.
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Drinks for spuds at the Frog & Beans.
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Absolutely!
The lazy greedy Jeremy Bamber never did anything for nothing — he’d have charged the pub landlord for any birds he’d killed, and they don’t come cheap. My nephew shoots and the money that changes hands for birds such as pheasants etc is astonishing!
So Jeremy Bamber certainly wouldn’t have gone shooting without getting paid!
They do go 'cheep' though @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Sorry, I'm so ashamed 8(8-))
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Possibly he got paid in kind----ie free drinks and meals in the pub in exchange for whatever he gave the landlord. Im sure I read that he had such an arrangement in respect to crops grown at the farm.
Bet Nevill didn't know about that.
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They do go 'cheep' though @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Sorry, I'm so ashamed 8(8-))
Yeh! So you should be (^&& (^&&
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Absolutely!
The lazy greedy Jeremy Bamber never did anything for nothing — he’d have charged the pub landlord for any birds he’d killed, and they don’t come cheap. My nephew shoots and the money that changes hands for birds such as pheasants etc is astonishing!
So Jeremy Bamber certainly wouldn’t have gone shooting without getting paid!
Pheasants are expensive because they cost money to buy or breed and to raise, apart from those which have escaped and are living wild.
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Pheasants are expensive because they cost money to buy or breed and to raise, apart from those which have escaped and are living wild.
There have been pheasants living wild for centuries. They are common where I live (north east).
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There have been pheasants living wild for centuries. They are common where I live (north east).
Their numbers are increasing all the time too. While being reared they are classed as livestock, but once released they become classed as wild birds. Around 35 million birds per year are released. Not all are shot, so the wild pheasant population grows all the time, despite predators and the pheasant's kamikaze habits.
https://whoownsengland.org/2019/04/02/the-english-shooting-estates-that-rear-20-million-pheasants-a-year/
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According to Jean Boutell's statement on 8/8/85 June Bamber slept on the right side of the double bed "when standing at the foot facing the head". That means she didn't walk round the foot of the bed after all, doesn't it?
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According to Jean Boutell's statement on 8/8/85 June Bamber slept on the right side of the double bed "when standing at the foot facing the head". That means she didn't walk round the foot of the bed after all, doesn't it?
You
No it means she slept on the side nearest to the main entrance and landing.
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When asked why he wanted the gun, he said "I rather fancy myself as the country squire sort" - where in that does he stated he wanted it for vermin?
No that's what the Eatons claim he said which might or might not be accurate. In his police interview JB responded as follows:
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No that's what the Eatons claim he said which might or might not be accurate. In his police interview JB responded as follows:
Well he would wouldn't he. He's even less dependable than the Eaton's.
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Well he would wouldn't he. He's even less dependable than the Eaton's.
I believe the police spoke with the landlord of The Chequers to confirm.
All the relatives wanted to do imo was bad mouth JB as they couldn't stand the thought of JB selling up and walking away with what was rightfully his.
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They didn't want him to get away with murder, obviously.
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I believe the police spoke with the landlord of The Chequers to confirm.
All the relatives wanted to do imo was bad mouth JB as they couldn't stand the thought of JB selling up and walking away with what was rightfully his.
So, Jeremy tells the police that he asked about an automatic shotgun because he was interested in going pigeon shooting with the landlord of the pub? But yet he told the landlord when asked that he wasn't interested and that he couldn't hit a barn door? If he wasn't interested, why is he saying that his 'interest' (in buying a semi-automatic) was due to the invitation, but declining the invitation when offered. He also lied about his abilities! Surely you can see that this is suspicious? This backs up what the relatives said and it's another hole in the Bamber fairy story.
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So, Jeremy tells the police that he asked about an automatic shotgun because he was interested in going pigeon shooting with the landlord of the pub? But yet he told the landlord when asked that he wasn't interested and that he couldn't hit a barn door? If he wasn't interested, why is he saying that his 'interest' (in buying a semi-automatic) was due to the invitation, but declining the invitation when offered. He also lied about his abilities! Surely you can see that this is suspicious? This backs up what the relatives said and it's another hole in the Bamber fairy story.
Where are you getting the above from ie declining the invitation and unable to hit a barn door?
Sometimes people downplay their abilities eg a golfer who plays off scratch or has a low single digit handicap might say 'oh I'm alright on a good day' when in reality they are top few % in the world.
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Where are you getting the above from ie declining the invitation and unable to hit a barn door?
Sometimes people downplay their abilities eg a golfer who plays off scratch or has a low single digit handicap might say 'oh I'm alright on a good day' when in reality they are top few % in the world.
No, he DECLINED the offer according to Trevor Jones (the landlord of Chequers).
"at the beginning of July, Jeremy drove out to Oak Farm one evening and told Ann that he wanted to buy a five shot automatic 12 bore. When she asked him why, he replied: ‘I rather fancied myself as the country squire and thought I might go shooting.’1 Peter explained that it wasn’t the done thing and suggested he try one of his father’s guns before buying one himself. Jeremy later told detectives that his interest was due to the landlord of the Chequers inviting him to go pigeon shooting. Trevor Jones confirmed it, adding that Jeremy had declined his offer, saying he couldn’t hit a barn door."
Lee, Carol Ann. The Murders at White House Farm: Jeremy Bamber and the killing of his family. The definitive investigation. (p. 134). Pan Macmillan. Kindle Edition.
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They do go 'cheep' though @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Sorry, I'm so ashamed 8(8-))
I think that’s funny (&^&
It’s healthy to crack a joke even in the most awful of times — it’s a defence mechanism
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Pheasants are expensive because they cost money to buy or breed and to raise, apart from those which have escaped and are living wild.
It isn’t just the birds that cost money — it’s all the money it costs for shoots.
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According to Jean Boutell's statement on 8/8/85 June Bamber slept on the right side of the double bed "when standing at the foot facing the head". That means she didn't walk round the foot of the bed after all, doesn't it?
You can see by the photo that June slept on the left side of the bed, which would be the right side if you were looking at it from the bottom of the bed 🙄
And it’s obvious she walked round it as she left her blood trail there...and she ended up by the door when Jeremy shot her dead between her eyes.
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I think that’s funny (&^&
It’s healthy to crack a joke even in the most awful of times — it’s a defence mechanism
But Jeremy (supposedly) laughing at his parents' funeral was abnormal---------------
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No that's what the Eatons claim he said which might or might not be accurate. In his police interview JB responded as follows:
Jeremy Bamber trips himself up constantly
You do realise you’re helping people see what a liar he is, Holly, when you post his statements up?
I don’t think he’s particularly bright for a psychopath...
He even said he didn’t like shooting foxes; only rabbits and hares; yet everyone knows how farmers hate foxes for the unnecessary harm they do. Foxes kill just for the fun of it...maybe that’s why Jeremy liked them?
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But Jeremy (supposedly) laughing at his parents' funeral was abnormal---------------
Oh yes, absolutely!
But that’s totally different
And ALL of Jeremy’s behaviour was (still is) thoroughly abnormal and smacks of psychopathy. They find it difficult to wear a mask for long, hence why he started smiling once the cameras were off him.
Even his attitude when being interviewed under caution showed what a psychopathic, arrogant man he was. Unlike the man he tried to frame and said he’d paid £2000 to kill his family: when HE was interviewed he was frantic with worry, deeply shocked, and desperate to prove his innocence. Jeremy, on the other hand, played around with threads of his jumper and stared at the officer with a smirk on his face...deep down he was just furious he’d been rumbled.
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You can see by the photo that June slept on the left side of the bed, which would be the right side if you were looking at it from the bottom of the bed 🙄
And it’s obvious she walked round it as she left her blood trail there...and she ended up by the door when Jeremy shot her dead between her eyes.
Are you saying she slept on the left side but got out on the right side?
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Are you saying she slept on the left side but got out on the right side?
No, she walked around the bed evidenced by the drip of blood.
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No, she walked around the bed evidenced by the drip of blood.
And then walked back round towards the doorway?
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And then walked back round towards the doorway?
Must have.
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And then walked back round towards the doorway?
It’s obvious by June’s blood trail that she was first shot sitting up in bed on the left-hand side where she slept (closest to the bedroom door), then for some reason she walked round the bed and then back again. The blood proves that.
It could have been for one of two reasons:
She was traumatised, disorientated and panicking
She tried to get the phone that was always by Nevill’s side, only to see it wasn’t there...
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The bedroom phone may have been in the bedroom. Jeremy had disabled all phones upon entrance.
Jeremy wiped off any of June's blood on the phone & put it in the kitchen, where Nevill was, off the hook.
Also a chance the phone was not there & June had not noticed.
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The bedroom phone may have been in the bedroom. Jeremy had disabled all phones upon entrance.
Jeremy wiped off any of June's blood on the phone & put it in the kitchen, where Nevill was, off the hook.
Also a chance the phone was not there & June had not noticed.
Jeremy definitely disabled all the phones when he broke in by lifting the receiver if the kitchen phone, that’s true
But why and how did the bedroom phone get into the kitchen? The walkabout phone was away for repairs, and the kitchen phone which was a press button phone was hidden beneath a pile of magazines. That phone wasn’t broken — it was working perfectly — so why would June or Nevill have taken their bedroom phone downstairs? It doesn’t make sense.
I suspect it’s one of two things.
Either Jeremy asked them the night before if he could borrow the kitchen phone for a day or so on the pretext his phone at Goldhanger wasn’t working, or he made out to them that the kitchen phone wasn’t working properly and offered to bring their bedroom phone downstairs while they were all eating supper. He may have said he’d drop it off next day to get it repaired for them...
Then after he killed them all hours later, he simply put the regular kitchen phone under the pile of magazines. It was also noted that the wire had been wound round it, which is something you’d do if you’re going to take a phone away with you. You wouldn’t bother winding it round if you were just taking it from one room to another.
So I’m convinced he made sure that bedroom phone was in the kitchen before he left.
And as you say, when he broke in, he disabled it anyway...just in case one of them managed to get to the office phone.