UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Eleanor on April 29, 2020, 10:12:02 AM
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Jesus, what a family. June was a religious nutter and Neville doesn't seem to have been much better, but they were allowed to adopt two children who according to this both turned into nutters not surprisingly, if indeed Jeremy did actually commit the murders.
I am horrified reading this.
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Jesus, what a family. June was a religious nutter and Neville doesn't seem to have been much better, but they were allowed to adopt two children who according to this both turned into nutters not surprisingly, if indeed Jeremy did actually commit the murders.
I am horrified reading this.
(ty6e[. I expect you're missing me over the way!
Couldn't agree more. Interestingly the lives of SC's 3 x half siblings on the maternal side and JB's 2 x full siblings could not be more different.
From SC's birth mother's late husband:
What is the purpose of one's life? Hopefully to make the world a little bit better, help people, protect wild animals and their environment, and most importantly, find a loving life partner and create a caring and loving home for your children.
https://pier21.ca/content/the-history-of-the-sykoras-in-the-former-czechoslovakia-czechoslovak-immigrant
https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/obituaries/dr-oskar-paul-sykora-9340/
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(ty6e[. I expect you're missing me over the way!
Couldn't agree more. Interestingly the lives of SC's 3 x half siblings on the maternal side and JB's 2 x full siblings could not be more different.
From SC's birth mother's late husband:
What is the purpose of one's life? Hopefully to make the world a little bit better, help people, protect wild animals and their environment, and most importantly, find a loving life partner and create a caring and loving home for your children.
https://pier21.ca/content/the-history-of-the-sykoras-in-the-former-czechoslovakia-czechoslovak-immigrant
https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/obituaries/dr-oskar-paul-sykora-9340/
We have several adoptees here - how different were N&J as far as your own experiences go? What preparation did parents receive before having a baby handed to them? Someone having a biological child, have time to prepare both practically and emotionally - it sounds to me like they were left to get on with it. I imagine they did their best and certainly didn't deserve to die in such horrendous circumstances just because they adopted two kids.
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Jesus, what a family. June was a religious nutter and Neville doesn't seem to have been much better, but they were allowed to adopt two children who according to this both turned into nutters not surprisingly, if indeed Jeremy did actually commit the murders.
I am horrified reading this.
It was indeed a situation which fulfilled the parent's needs rather than those of the children.
Normally an Adoption Society choose who will be offered a child for adoption, but in Sheila's case it was her natural grandfather who decided that she should go to the Bambers. Apparently he knew Nevill Bamber from their service with the RAF. [CAL p22]. That was highly unusual and has never been explained, but it happened regardless of June's mental instability. A few months after the adoption June had another breakdown and was given electroshock therapy as an in-patient. Sheila was, therefore, shuffled around quite a bit. A spell with her natural mother, then a couple of months in a children's home, then being cared for by family members and a nanny. There was little chance imo that she and June were able to bond during all that.
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It was indeed a situation which fulfilled the parent's needs rather than those of the children.
Normally an Adoption Society choose who will be offered a child for adoption, but in Sheila's case it was her natural grandfather who decided that she should go to the Bambers. Apparently he knew Nevill Bamber from their service with the RAF. [CAL p22]. That was highly unusual and has never been explained, but it happened regardless of June's mental instability. A few months after the adoption June had another breakdown and was given electroshock therapy as an in-patient. Sheila was, therefore, shuffled around quite a bit. A spell with her natural mother, then a couple of months in a children's home, then being cared for by family members and a nanny. There was little chance imo that she and June were able to bond during all that.
Unable to bond? Ha! It seems to me that they bonded only too well. And Jeremy was there when all of this was going on? Who looked after him?
This is getting more disturbing by the minute.
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Unable to bond? Ha! It seems to me that they bonded only too well. And Jeremy was there when all of this was going on? Who looked after him?
This is getting more disturbing by the minute.
Jeremy was younger than Sheila, he wasn't born.
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Jeremy was younger than Sheila, he wasn't born.
So they sent him to a mentally disturbed woman who couldn't look after her first adopted child? Good God, this is awful.
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So they sent him to a mentally disturbed woman who couldn't look after her first adopted child? Good God, this is awful.
I agree.
Even if one believes JB responsible you would think they might consider his environment had some part to play in it.
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I agree.
Even if one believes JB responsible you would think they might consider his environment had some part to play in it.
I do, and have said so. I believe being told he was adopted about the same time he was sent of to boarding school is at the heart of his personality disorder. Doesn't that make him less guilty though. Lots of people live with the consequences of childhood - they don't murder 5 people in later lifer though.
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I agree.
Even if one believes JB responsible you would think they might consider his environment had some part to play in it.
Certainly. I think a combination of being told he was adopted and within weeks of it being sent to boarding school could have left him feeling that he was dirty secret which needed to be kept hidden. It may explain his track record of lavishing money on things to impress others and hoping to buy popularity?
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I think if you look through literature on the subject the references have changed from natural to biological to birth.
Thanks Holly !
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I do, and have said so. I believe being told he was adopted about the same time he was sent of to boarding school is at the heart of his personality disorder. Doesn't that make him less guilty though. Lots of people live with the consequences of childhood - they don't murder 5 people in later lifer though.
I don't know of any personality disorder brought about by an adoptee told he/she was adopted and then packed off to boarding school. SC went through the same experience.
Kate Adie, from your neck of the woods, was also adopted and told as much just before being packed off to boarding school.
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I don't know of any personality disorder brought about by an adoptee told he/she was adopted and then packed off to boarding school. SC went through the same experience.
Kate Adie, from your neck of the woods, was also adopted and told as much just before being packed off to boarding school.
I don't know if Kate Adie struggled -and failed- to live up to her adopted parents' expectations. She may not have seen boarding school as a punishment.
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I do, and have said so. I believe being told he was adopted about the same time he was sent of to boarding school is at the heart of his personality disorder. Doesn't that make him less guilty though. Lots of people live with the consequences of childhood - they don't murder 5 people in later lifer though.
I agree. He had a choice, and he made the wrong one---that is, IF he is guilty.
Unlike Sheila. If she committed the murders, it was, IMO, a result of not being in control, owing to her illness.
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My mum wasn't adopted per se, but she was brought up by her grandparents, only finding out that the person she thought was her oldest sister, was actually her birth mother. She had a good childhood but has always felt rejected since finding out aged about 7 years old from another sister (actually her aunt) after a disagreement. It's affected my mum all of her life because it was never openly discussed and I think she always felt like she was a dirty secret. They all probably thought they were doing the best for everyone, but, her real mum (my gran) went on to have other children and my mum missed out on getting to know them and they had no idea about my mum until recently. One big mess really that had ramifications for everyone.
But this is different compared with growing up in an environment without any kinship.
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I agree. He had a choice, and he made the wrong one---that is, IF he is guilty.
Unlike Sheila. If she committed the murders, it was, IMO, a result of not being in control, owing to her illness.
Another reason I wanted it NOT to be Jeremy.I could have forgiven Sheila because she was ill.
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My mum wasn't adopted per se, but she was brought up by her grandparents, only finding out that the person she thought was her oldest sister, was actually her birth mother. She had a good childhood but has always felt rejected since finding out aged about 7 years old from another sister (actually her aunt) after a disagreement. It's affected my mum all of her life because it was never openly discussed and I think she always felt like she was a dirty secret. They all probably thought they were doing the best for everyone, but, her real mum (my gran) went on to have other children and my mum missed out on getting to know them and they had no idea about my mum until recently. One big mess really that had ramifications for everyone.
As a teenager I had a friend in exactly the same position. Neither her mother nor her grandmother were prepared to discuss it with her and it was very painful for her. When I traced my birth mother she was dead, but I contacted my half sisters because I was two years old when I was adopted. They were older and I thought they might remember me and might have wondered where I'd gone. It turned out they had never seen me and never been told, so it was an awful shock for them. I was unable to discover where I was for the first two years of my life.
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Jesus, what a family. June was a religious nutter and Neville doesn't seem to have been much better, but they were allowed to adopt two children who according to this both turned into nutters not surprisingly, if indeed Jeremy did actually commit the murders.
I am horrified reading this.
Nevill wasn’t horrible or mentally ill, Eleanor. He was the very opposite. Well-liked for his gregarious, fun-loving nature, kindness, generosity and understanding nature. That’s a dreadful slur to make!
Incidentally, psychopaths such as Jeremy are either born with psychopathy or may develop it due to a head injury. It isn’t caused by upbringing at all — it’s a personality disorder that’s untreatable and incurable.
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I agree. He had a choice, and he made the wrong one---that is, IF he is guilty.
Unlike Sheila. If she committed the murders, it was, IMO, a result of not being in control, owing to her illness.
IMO SC suffered a disorganised attachment as a result of June's serious mental illness when SC was circa 2 yoa. The following study shows a correlation between adult disorganised attachment styles and filicide:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261874950_Mothers_who_murdered_their_child_An_attachment-based_study_on_filicide
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Nevill wasn’t horrible or mentally ill, Eleanor. He was the very opposite. Well-liked for his gregarious, fun-loving nature, kindness, generosity and understanding nature. That’s a dreadful slur to make!
Incidentally, psychopaths such as Jeremy are either born with psychopathy or may develop it due to a head injury. It isn’t caused by upbringing at all — it’s a personality disorder that’s untreatable and incurable.
It may NOT be caused by upbringing, yet the nature/nurture debate continues.
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I agree. He had a choice, and he made the wrong one---that is, IF he is guilty.
Unlike Sheila. If she committed the murders, it was, IMO, a result of not being in control, owing to her illness.
It took someone in full command of their senses to carry out those murders imo. They were just far too clinical to have been the result of a spur-of-the-moment temporary insanity. IMO, Bamber made a fatal error in trying to blame Sheila for his murderous handiwork. He didn't think it all out properly, using a .22 peashooter to murder adults was his first amateurish error but then he had to use a weapon which was available in the farmhouse if he was to blame Sheila.
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Please note that the original thread has been separated into three new threads given the frequency of off-topic posts.
Please post according to the thread title. Thank you!
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It took someone in full command of their senses to carry out those murders imo. They were just far too clinical to have been the result of a spur-of-the-moment temporary insanity. IMO, Bamber made a fatal error in trying to blame Sheila for his murderous handiwork. He didn't think it all out properly, using a .22 peashooter to murder adults was his first amateurish error but then he had to use a weapon which was available in the farmhouse if he was to blame Sheila.
Totally agree!
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I agree. He had a choice, and he made the wrong one---that is, IF he is guilty.
Unlike Sheila. If she committed the murders, it was, IMO, a result of not being in control, owing to her illness.
I wouldn’t call shooting all your family dead a CHOICE...
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IMO SC suffered a disorganised attachment as a result of June's serious mental illness when SC was circa 2 yoa. The following study shows a correlation between adult disorganised attachment styles and filicide:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261874950_Mothers_who_murdered_their_child_An_attachment-based_study_on_filicide
But your opinion isn’t valid, Holly — you’re not a psychiatrist.
You can’t say why Sheila developed mild schizophrenia in just the same way you can’t say Jeremy was a psychopath due to June having breakdowns
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It may NOT be caused by upbringing, yet the nature/nurture debate continues.
Not where psychopathy is concerned, April
Nor Schizophrenia
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Not where psychopathy is concerned, April
Nor Schizophrenia
Interesting. I did some work on a paper in the 90's, discussing a possible link between double bind schizophrenia and adopted children.
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I wouldn’t call shooting all your family dead a CHOICE...
Of course it was a choice, if Jeremy did it. He could have chosen not to.
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Of course it was a choice, if Jeremy did it. He could have chosen not to.
It wasn’t a choice: it was a cold-hearted psychopath DECISION in order to get his thieving paws on ALL the inheritance.
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But your opinion isn’t valid, Holly — you’re not a psychiatrist.
You can’t say why Sheila developed mild schizophrenia in just the same way you can’t say Jeremy was a psychopath due to June having breakdowns
I never said I was a psychiatrist but it doesn't prevent me forming opinions and posting them here much the same way others do with regard to their opinions and beliefs JB is a psychopath.
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It wasn’t a choice: it was a cold-hearted psychopath DECISION in order to get his thieving paws on ALL the inheritance.
If he is guilty, I agree.
Still a choice between right and wrong, though.
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IMO SC suffered a disorganised attachment as a result of June's serious mental illness when SC was circa 2 yoa. The following study shows a correlation between adult disorganised attachment styles and filicide:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261874950_Mothers_who_murdered_their_child_An_attachment-based_study_on_filicide
So what’s Jeremy’s excuse?
When June and Nevill adopted him June didn’t have a breakdown.
And I don't expect Sheila had any memory of what was going on when she was two-years-old...
Even though JB was found guilty 35 years ago, has lost several appeals/leave for appeals...you have an obsession you can’t let go of. Every implausible excuse you come up with to try and make him look innocent is smashed into smithereens and then you go onto a new thread, and get the same result again. Isn’t that soul destroying for you?
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Please, can we refrain from making personal remarks about other posters.
Surely, whatever one's views re Jeremy Bamber, it isn't too difficult to stick to the forum rules???
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If he is guilty, I agree.
Still a choice between right and wrong, though.
You need to remember, MrsWah, that Jeremy Bamber was found GUILTY.
NO “IFS”, no “BUTS”.
He WAS.
Guilty — and all appeals since then has established that.