UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: LagosBen on September 27, 2013, 07:34:33 PM
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The cynical side of me thinks deliberate.
The kinder side of me hopes that the child isn't seriously ill, but wonders if it true that it was a non emergency op?
If so then surely the Lawyer should have been aware that it was booked for today.
Just what is going on? Anyone actually know the truth?
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The cynical side of me thinks deliberate.
The kinder side of me hopes that the child isn't seriously ill, but wonders if it true that it was a non emergency op?
If so then surely the Lawyer should have been aware that it was booked for today.
Just what is going on? Anyone actually know the truth?
The lawyer knew yesterday 8()(((@#
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A grown-up son, I gather ...
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The lawyer knew yesterday 8()(((@#
EH? So how much notice do you have for Operations over there?
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A grown-up son, I gather ...
No! Please tell me you are kidding ferryman ?
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A grown-up son, I gather ...
A grown up son..how old?
I didn't think amaral would show up for this trial and was surprised when he did...perhaps we will hear next his lawyer can no longer represent him and the trial will be delayed
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perhaps Anne can tell us how old he is
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perhaps Anne can tell us how old he is
Yes Anne seems "close", so perhaps she will tell us the truth.
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Oh Anne seems to have gone >@@(*&)
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well anne posted....
The child isn't ill, surgery had to be performed urgently and he needed his dad. Posters should have understood by now that Portuguese don't let down their children.
So she is referring to his son as a child...but remember Portuguese don't let down their children....so what have we been told about the ciprianos
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I don't know. How could I ask the boy's age ? I guess the emergency was indicated on the document that the Judge examined. This Judge is very fair. All I seem to know is that it was a surgery of the hand. Had he fingers cut ?
I was sorry for Mrs Cameron. Luckily she wasn't alone.
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I think the deafening silence tells us that the child is a man...shall we have a guess at 35...it seems that Portuguese men want their daddy when they are in hospital
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well anne posted....
The child isn't ill, surgery had to be performed urgently and he needed his dad. Posters should have understood by now that Portuguese don't let down their children.
So she is referring to his son as a child...but remember Portuguese don't let down their children....so what have we been told about the ciprianos
Not ill but needed surgery ? I'm confused.com Is it a child or an adult ?
Surely if the Lawyer didn't know the op was today it must have been emergency surgery so therefore the poor child must be ill. Poor lamb.
As for AG she always has to have her little dig.
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No! Please tell me you are kidding ferryman ?
Mr McCann was informed that the hearing had been adjourned because one of the lawyers’ grown up children was unwell
The former police officer’s lawyer, Vitor Santos de Oliveira, applied to halt the hearing on Thursday night, telling the court his son was in hospital.
He said: “My son is having an operation. I hope that because of this you won’t be making a hullabaloo saying that Gonçalo Amaral is holding things up.”
Isabel Duarte, the lawyer who is representing the McCann family said: “It’s not surreal, it’s Portugal.”
“I saw the request to adjourn this morning. The facts are that we have organised the trial and the lawyer was actually here, so I was expecting the trial today. I asked the judge to at least hear my witness.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10340640/Gerry-McCann-frustrated-after-libel-trial-is-suddenly-postponed.html
So WTF, wasn't everyone told, before the hearing today!
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I don't know. How could I ask the boy's age ? I guess the emergency was indicated on the document that the Judge examined. This Judge is very fair. All I seem to know is that it was a surgery of the hand. Had he fingers cut ?
I was sorry for Mrs Cameron. Luckily she wasn't alone.
I think you have answered the question...what a disgrace.. Gerry McCann, a british doctor will have had to cancel patients today .
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Mr McCann was informed that the hearing had been adjourned because one of the lawyers’ grown up children was unwell
The former police officer’s lawyer, Vitor Santos de Oliveira, applied to halt the hearing on Thursday night, telling the court his son was in hospital.
He said: “My son is having an operation. I hope that because of this you won’t be making a hullabaloo saying that Gonçalo Amaral is holding things up.”
Isabel Duarte, the lawyer who is representing the McCann family said: “It’s not surreal, it’s Portugal.”
“I saw the request to adjourn this morning. The facts are that we have organised the trial and the lawyer was actually here, so I was expecting the trial today. I asked the judge to at least hear my witness.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10340640/Gerry-McCann-frustrated-after-libel-trial-is-suddenly-postponed.html
So WTF, wasn't everyone told, before the hearing today!
Something isn't right !
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I have experienced this sort of behaviour by lawyers and courts even in the UK. At the end of the day they don't give a shit that people have to make all sorts of private arrangements and catch a flight to get there.
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EH? So how much notice do you have for Operations over there?
Apologies for the delay, it took me a while to find:
y Catarina Aleixo, Lisbon6:34PM BST 27 Sep 2013
Gerry McCann, 45, travelled to Lisbon with his sister Trish Cameron, in the hope of appearing as a witness in the case of Goncalo Amaral, the shamed detective they are suing for £1 million.
But as he arrived at the courthouse in the Portuguese capital, Mr McCann was informed that the hearing had been adjourned because one of the lawyers’ grown up children was unwell.Mr McCann and his wife Kate launched a libel action against Mr Amaral over his book, The Truth of the Lie, in which he alleged they were involved in their daughter’s disappearance in May 2007.
Portuguese law used to prevent the plaintiffs or claimants from giving evidence in such hearings, but a recent ruling overturned that ban.
Mr McCann said despite the sudden postponement of the hearing he was determined to return and give evidence in the case.
He said: “If I get the opportunity to be heard I will come back. The law has changed and Kate and I know better than anybody what we have gone through, the facts of the files and the damage that has been caused to the search for Madeleine.”
The decision to suddenly postpone the hearing is the latest frustration for the McCann family, who believe Mr Amaral’s book badly damaged the international search for their daughter.
Previously Mrs Cameron and Mrs McCann’s mother, Susan Healy, had travelled to Portugal in the hope of giving evidence, only to be turned away when the Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Catro called off the trial citing “personal reasons”.
The former police officer’s lawyer, Vitor Santos de Oliveira, applied to halt the hearing on Thursday night, telling the court his son was in hospital.
He said: “My son is having an operation. I hope that because of this you won’t be making a hullabaloo saying that Gonçalo Amaral is holding things up.”
Isabel Duarte, the lawyer who is representing the McCann family said: “It’s not surreal, it’s Portugal.”
“I saw the request to adjourn this morning. The facts are that we have organised the trial and the lawyer was actually here, so I was expecting the trial today. I asked the judge to at least hear my witness.”
Mr Amaral’s controversial book was published in July 2008 claiming that Madeleine had died in an accident and her parents had hidden her body before faking her abduction.
The couple are suing Mr Amaral, his publishers and associated documentary makers for £1 million.
The trial is scheduled to sit again next Tuesday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10340640/Gerry-McCann-frustrated-after-libel-trial-is-suddenly-postponed.html
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Something isn't right !
Odd isn't it. First the judge has problems, and cancels, now the lawyer. Something stinks 8()(((@#
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I have experienced this sort of behaviour by lawyers and courts even in the UK. At the end of the day they don't give a shit that people have to make all sorts of private arrangements and catch a flight to get there.
But if ferrymans post is correct A grown up child? A hospital op that must have been booked in advance surely?
Well out of order, and frankly makes one wonder hmm.
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I have experienced this sort of behaviour by lawyers and courts even in the UK. At the end of the day they don't give a shit that people have to make all sorts of private arrangements and catch a flight to get there.
Yes I agree, they don't give a shit
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But if ferrymans post is correct A grown up child? A hospital op that must have been booked in advance surely?
Well out of order, and frankly makes one wonder hmm.
Could have been an appendicitis or anything. hmm >@@(*&)
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Odd isn't it. First the judge has problems, and cancels, now the lawyer. Something stinks 8()(((@#
Why didn't he just apologise and end this farce?
It's really not showing the PT Justice system in a good light.
Our system isn't perfect, but I doubt that kind of excuse would hold water with a Judge..
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Could have been an appendicitis or anything. hmm >@@(*&)
Of the hand uh uh don't think so.
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I think you have answered the question...what a disgrace.. Gerry McCann, a british doctor will have had to cancel patients today .
He couldn't be heard to-day anyhow. And how do you know he cancelled patients ? He doesn't work 24x7 hours a week. He decided to take the stand yesterday and yesterday Mrs Duarte filled the request that has to be submitted to the defence. The only chance was perhaps the defence agreeing with that. But I think he came to support his sister and I find it kind from him. What I don't understand though is why Mrs Cameron didn't come back with Mrs Healy.
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He couldn't be heard to-day anyhow. And how do you know he cancelled patients ? He doesn't work 24x7 hours a week. He decided to take the stand yesterday and yesterday Mrs Duarte filled the request that has to be submitted to the defence. The only chance was perhaps the defence agreeing with that. But I think he came to support his sister and I find it kind from him. What I don't understand though is why Mrs Cameron didn't come back with Mrs Healy.
It is all beginning to make sense now. The McCanns have seen how the case is going, probably reading the reports on here too and they realise that they need to have personal input if they are ever going to win. Gerry wants to make a last minute impact and that is why Duarte had to submit a late request that he be heard.
I wouldn't be surprised that team Amaral have taken this time to review their own strategy.
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I'm not legal but anyone can see just what is going on over there.
No matter who wins this will drag on and on.
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I'm not legal but anyone can see just what is going on over there.
No matter who wins this will drag on and on.
Do you mean this particular trial? A three day delay in resumption of proceedings is hardly a dragging on, unless you are talking about appeals and counter appeals over months or years
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Do you mean this particular trial? A three day delay in resumption of proceedings is hardly a dragging on, unless you are talking about appeals and counter appeals over months or years
How long ago did this start?
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How long ago did this start?
Interesting always when people answer a question with a question....instead of just sayng outright what they think
Why are you asking? Dont you know?
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It is all beginning to make sense now. The McCanns have seen how the case is going, probably reading the reports on here too and they realise that they need to have personal input if they are ever going to win. Gerry wants to make a last minute impact and that is why Duarte had to submit a late request that he be heard.
I wouldn't be surprised that team Amaral have taken this time to review their own strategy.
That's my feeling too, Angelo.
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That's my feeling too, Angelo.
Hilarious.
Why in Gods name would the McCanns be reading here? They have a direct report from Duarte.
Both Angelo and yourself are ignoring completely the change in Portuguese law which only now allows their personal intervention.
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The reality is that this day in court was cancelled because an adult who was having some pre-arranged surgery on his hand needed "daddy" to hold his other hand and that is a total disgrace.
As far as I am concerned the Portuguese judicial system is becoming a total laughing stock.
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How long ago did this start?
The McCanns served their libel writ in the Lisbon Civil Court in June 2009, 4 years and 3 months ago.
They won Rounds 1 & 2 - book banned and re-banned Sep 09 and Feb 10.
They lost Rounds 3 & 4 - book unbanned and stayed unbanned (and McCanns ordered to pay costs) at Court of Appeal Oct 10 and at Supreme Court Mar 11.
This is Rouhd 5.
But not necessarily the final round.
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Hilarious.
Why in Gods name would the McCanns be reading here? They have a direct report from Duarte.
Both Angelo and yourself are ignoring completely the change in Portuguese law which only now allows their personal intervention.
Are you saying portuguese law prevented claimants from being witnesses at their own libel trial in the past?
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The reality is that this day in court was cancelled because an adult who was having some pre-arranged surgery on his hand needed "daddy" to hold his other hand and that is a total disgrace.
As far as I am concerned the Portuguese judicial system is becoming a total laughing stock.
Can you prove your accusations ?
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Hilarious.
Why in Gods name would the McCanns be reading here? They have a direct report from Duarte.
Both Angelo and yourself are ignoring completely the change in Portuguese law which only now allows their personal intervention.
Are you kidding ? Do you think a lawyer is a clerk ? Dra Duarte takes only notes about the defence questions and verbatim of any dictated request or protestation.
She has no recording device and she's not allowed to the court clerk's notes, at least in that phase of the trial.
The New Code is running since the 1st of September
http://www.dgpj.mj.pt/sections/leis-da-justica/livro-iii-leis-civis-e/leis-de-processo-civil/codigo-de-processo-civil (http://www.dgpj.mj.pt/sections/leis-da-justica/livro-iii-leis-civis-e/leis-de-processo-civil/codigo-de-processo-civil)
Why don't you contact Mrs Duarte and ask for her reports in order to prove to Internet posters that a miserable one posts biased reports, hindering the search for Madeleine ?
You shouldn't invoke the name of God in vain.
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Hilarious.
Why in Gods name would the McCanns be reading here? They have a direct report from Duarte.
Both Angelo and yourself are ignoring completely the change in Portuguese law which only now allows their personal intervention.
The law changed yesterday, did it ?
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The reality is that this day in court was cancelled because an adult who was having some pre-arranged surgery on his hand needed "daddy" to hold his other hand and that is a total disgrace.
As far as I am concerned the Portuguese judicial system is becoming a total laughing stock.
>@@(*&)
What an absolutely disgusting post!
How badly that post reflects on the personality?
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Are you saying portuguese law prevented claimants from being witnesses at their own libel trial in the past?
It seems so.
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The law changed yesterday, did it ?
@)(++(*
Mr Mccann probably booked his flight before it had done, mystic gerry
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It seems so.
Oh!
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The reality is that this day in court was cancelled because an adult who was having some pre-arranged surgery on his hand needed "daddy" to hold his other hand and that is a total disgrace.
As far as I am concerned the Portuguese judicial system is becoming a total laughing stock.
You have no idea what the circumstances are
How would you feel about ridiculing this adult child if you found out he had downs syndrome for instance, or some other health issue ? ( you realise that is a possibility, don't you ? )
Why are you so being nasty when you don't even know the facts ?
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You have no idea what the circumstances are
How would you feel about ridiculing this adult child if you found out he had downs syndrome for instance, or some other health issue ? ( you realise that is a possibility, don't you ? )
Why are you so being nasty when you don't even know the facts ?
It would appear to me that a few internet posters have been much more nasty about the McCann family for the last six years without knowing alll the facts so what's the difference ?
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It would appear to me that a few internet posters have been much more nasty about the McCann family for the last six years without knowing alll the facts so what's the difference ?
Not on this forum they havn't
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It would appear to me that a few internet posters have been much more nasty about the McCann family for the last six years without knowing alll the facts so what's the difference ?
Get over yourself.....you I or no one else KNOWS anything about Mr Santos's son but some have posted awful things already..in just ONE DAY......six years of the Mccanns on TV and in papers, err hello! I think we know a bit more about them!
Do you understand the words perspective or balance?
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If the son is an adult and only having an operation on his hand then surely other family members could have arranged to be in attendance at the hospital and his father could have gone there after he finished his day in court. Although if things are the same in Portugal as they are here, his son may well have been discharged by then.
A real medical emergency is an acceptable reason to disrupt court proceedings, but if the above is true then I would certainly not class that situation as a fair reason to ask for an adjournment.
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If the son is an adult and only having an operation on his hand then surely other family members could have arranged to be in attendance at the hospital and his father could have gone there after he finished his day in court. Although if things are the same in Portugal as they are here, his son may well have been discharged by then.
A real medical emergency is an acceptable reason to disrupt court proceedings, but if the above is true then I would certainly not class that situation as a fair reason to ask for an adjournment.
Agreed. When I first read about this I assumed it was a young child who had been rushed in for emergency surgery.
An adult having an operation on his hand?
Never mind though, Gerry will get his say next week.
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I wonder how diddums is doing after his hand surgery.
Strange isn't it, they run away when Gerry is in town.
Never mind, Gerry will get his say very soon.
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I'm not too sure of the facts here so could be wrong - but from what I have read it appears that the Defence 'team' have to agree to allow Gerry to give evidence. Could it be that this was a delaying tactic whilst they cogitate whether to agree or oppose this? Time will tell no doubt.
Night night to all.
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Hilarious.
Why in Gods name would the McCanns be reading here? They have a direct report from Duarte.
Duarte hasnt got the time to be writing reports never mind a full record of proceedings and official transcripts will not be available for some time if ever. Look at it this way it isnt costing the Madeleine Fund a penny for once. @)(++(*
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Duarte hasnt got the time to be writing reports never mind a full record of proceedings and official transcripts will not be available for some time if ever. Look at it this way it isnt costing the Madeleine Fund a penny for once. @)(++(*
Do you seriously imagine that Kate and Gerry McCann are reading the court reports on this forum?
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Are you kidding ? Do you think a lawyer is a clerk ? Dra Duarte takes only notes about the defence questions and verbatim of any dictated request or protestation.
She has no recording device and she's not allowed to the court clerk's notes, at least in that phase of the trial.
The New Code is running since the 1st of September
http://www.dgpj.mj.pt/sections/leis-da-justica/livro-iii-leis-civis-e/leis-de-processo-civil/codigo-de-processo-civil (http://www.dgpj.mj.pt/sections/leis-da-justica/livro-iii-leis-civis-e/leis-de-processo-civil/codigo-de-processo-civil)
Why don't you contact Mrs Duarte and ask for her reports in order to prove to Internet posters that a miserable one posts biased reports, hindering the search for Madeleine ?
You shouldn't invoke the name of God in vain.
You took the words right out of my mouth Anne 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
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I wonder how diddums is doing after his hand surgery.
Strange isn't it, they run away when Gerry is in town.
Never mind, Gerry will get his say very soon.
That is unkind of you Rachel ... and very presumptuous
What if you found out tomorrow that the adult child has downs syndrome, for instance, ( or some other serious health condition that presents complications ) ... how would you feel about your snide remarks ?
Those who are sceptical of the McCanns are frequently critisised for making judgements based on little evidence ... it cuts both way, you know
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I'm not too sure of the facts here so could be wrong - but from what I have read it appears that the Defence 'team' have to agree to allow Gerry to give evidence. Could it be that this was a delaying tactic whilst they cogitate whether to agree or oppose this? Time will tell no doubt.
Night night to all.
Delaying tactic, definitely. They are scared to death of Gerry. He will take no prisoners.
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Do you seriously imagine that Kate and Gerry McCann are reading the court reports on this forum?
Does it matter Rach ? 8(0(*
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You shouldn't invoke the name of God in vain.
Interesting concern for a Nietzschean.
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That is unkind of you Rachel ... and very presumptuous
What if you found out tomorrow that the adult child has downs syndrome, for instance, ( or some other serious health condition that presents complications ) ... how would you feel about your snide remarks ?
Those who are sceptical of the McCanns are frequently critisised for making judgements based on little evidence ... it cuts both way, you know
Well if he has Down Syndrome it would be rather like Grenville Green using Stephen to further his own hate-agenda on Fridge Magnet Night.
And as for snide remarks, how about Luz's comments about Kate's suicidal thoughts? They were far beyond snide, they were downright vile.
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Delaying tactic, definitely. They are scared to death of Gerry. He will take no prisoners.
Are you being serious, Rachel?
What actual evidence do you think he is going to bring to the trial?
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Are you being serious, Rachel?
What actual evidence do you think he is going to bring to the trial?
Gerry won't stand for any nonsense - or the badgering that has gone on against female witnesses.
They won't like that....
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Gerry won't stand for any nonsense - or the badgering that has gone on against female witnesses.
They won't like that....
What do you mean 'he' won't stand for any nonsense? He's not the judge.
I must admit I didn't pick up on the badgering - can you give me an example?
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Delaying tactic, definitely. They are scared to death of Gerry. He will take no prisoners.
I think it's fair to assume that the four defence lawyers are considering what advantage may be gained in allowing Gerry to take the stand
Outside the court today, he was asked a question by a reporter ... "Gerry, what do you want to say to the Judge ?"
Before he could open his mouth, Isabel Duarte was on it like a terrier ... "Nothing" she snapped ... giving Gerry a warning look
She won't be able to do that when he's on the stand ... and he might just drop a clanger
It will be interesting to see if the defence lawyers think there's a chance his arrogance will be his undoing , and give him his 'day in court' in anticipation of it
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What do you mean 'he' won't stand for any nonsense? He's not the judge.
I must admit I didn't pick up on the badgering - can you give me an example?
Funny how a crummy excuse is brought into play when Gerry has stepped up to the plate.
Have a look back at the court reports from Anne.
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I think it's fair to assume that the four defence lawyers are considering what advantage may be gained in allowing Gerry to take the stand
Outside the court today, he was asked a question by a reporter ... "Gerry, what do you want to say to the Judge ?"
Before he could open his mouth, Isabel Duarte was on it like a terrier ... "Nothing" she snapped ... giving Gerry a warning look
She won't be able to do that when he's on the stand ... and he might just drop a clanger
It will be interesting to see if the defence lawyers think there's a chance his arrogance will be his undoing , and give him his 'day in court' in anticipation of it
He could end up losing it and throwing his toys out of the pram, as we have witnessed before.
Is it arrogance, Icabod, or 'anger management issues' as they say at this side of the pond?
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Funny how a crummy excuse is brought into play when Gerry has stepped up to the plate.
Have a look back at the court reports from Anne.
If the defence lawyers were brickin it at the thought of Gerry taking the stand ( though God knows why they would be ) all they had to do was object to his last minute application to be heard
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Funny how a crummy excuse is brought into play when Gerry has stepped up to the plate.
Have a look back at the court reports from Anne.
I'll read the reports again with interest in light of your insight, Rachel
I did note a comment of Anne's that she felt the judge was 'handling' the witnesses well..
Anyway, will have another look.
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I think it's fair to assume that the four defence lawyers are considering what advantage may be gained in allowing Gerry to take the stand
Outside the court today, he was asked a question by a reporter ... "Gerry, what do you want to say to the Judge ?"
Before he could open his mouth, Isabel Duarte was on it like a terrier ... "Nothing" she snapped ... giving Gerry a warning look
She won't be able to do that when he's on the stand ... and he might just drop a clanger
It will be interesting to see if the defence lawyers think there's a chance his arrogance will be his undoing , and give him his 'day in court' in anticipation of it
Arrogance?
I bet you wouldn't be slagging Gerry McCann off if he was helping you with serious health matters.
What if he managed to get you up the queue for a heart op? Something tells me that he'd be Mr Wonderful then,
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He could end up losing it and throwing his toys out of the pram, as we have witnessed before.
Is it arrogance, Icabod, or 'anger management issues' as they say at this side of the pond?
I'm not really one for labels but the defence lawyers will surely be aware of Gerry's tendency to take his ball home when the game isn't going his way ... with that knowledge, if he takes the stand they might put him under pressure
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I'm not really one for labels but the defence lawyers will surely be aware of Gerry's tendency to take his ball home when the game isn't going his way ... with that knowledge, if he takes the stand they might put him under pressure
What do you mean, 'take his ball home...' ?
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What do you mean, 'take his ball home...' ?
Yes, what does "take his ball home" mean?
Gerry will do what it takes.
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What do you mean, 'take his ball home...' ?
Well it strikes me that in the past, Gerry would get very abrasive when awkward questions were asked ... "ask the Dogs Sandra"
There was even one occasion when he physically ripped a microphone off during a TV interview and stormed out of the studio because he didn't like the questions that were being asked
That's what I mean by 'taking his ball home' ... the game has to be played by Gerry's rules because he needs to be 'in control' of events
That is a weakness the defence lawyers must surely be aware of ... and one that certainly could be exploited on a witness stand
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Well it strikes me that in the past, Gerry would get very abrasive when awkward questions were asked ... "ask the Dogs Sandra"
There was even one occasion when he physically ripped a microphone off during a TV interview and stormed out of the studio because he didn't like the questions that were being asked
That's what I mean by 'taking his ball home' ... the game has to be played by Gerry's rules because he needs to be 'in control' of events
That is a weakness the defence lawyers must surely be aware of ... and one that certainly could be exploited on a witness stand
Gerry is a Dad who has lost his daughter. Who can blame him for getting upset or fed up during interviews.
Unfortunately for amaral, Kate and Gerry are not uneducated, simple people like the Ciprianos.
They are fighting back against his lies.
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Well it strikes me that in the past, Gerry would get very abrasive when awkward questions were asked ... "ask the Dogs Sandra"
There was even one occasion when he physically ripped a microphone off during a TV interview and stormed out of the studio because he didn't like the questions that were being asked
That's what I mean by 'taking his ball home' ... the game has to be played by Gerry's rules because he needs to be 'in control' of events
That is a weakness the defence lawyers must surely be aware of ... and one that certainly could be exploited on a witness stand
Yes, he seems very controlling, I agree. Nothing to do with defending himself against attack - just a character flaw.
An educated person, as you refer to him as, Rachel, ought to be able to respond in a dignified way, not in a way that weakens and damages him.
Maybe I'm just biased after nearly twenty-five years living in the home city of Conan Doyle and witnessing more than a few bouts of a certain brand of male abrasiveness along the way. But that's a bit off topic. And maybe an unfair generalisation..
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Gerry is a Dad who has lost his daughter. Who can blame him for getting upset or fed up during interviews.
Unfortunately for amaral, Kate and Gerry are not uneducated, simple people like the Ciprianos.
They are fighting back against his lies.
I am not saying otherwise ... I am just saying that on the witness stand Gerry will be compelled to answer questions, however offensive or upsetting they are
You say Gerry won't 'stand for any nonsense' or 'badgering' ... what will he do then ? ... storm out of the courtroom in a rage, like he did in that TV studio ?
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I am not saying otherwise ... I am just saying that on the witness stand Gerry will be compelled to answer questions, however offensive or upsetting they are
You say Gerry won't 'stand for any nonsense' or 'badgering' ... what will he do then ? ... storm out of the courtroom in a rage, like he did in that TV studio ?
What if you went for a hospital appointment that you had been waiting 6 months for, and were confronted by Gerry McCann.
Would you say all this to his face, that he was arrogant, etc?
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The reality is that this day in court was cancelled because an adult who was having some pre-arranged surgery on his hand needed "daddy" to hold his other hand and that is a total disgrace.
As far as I am concerned the Portuguese judicial system is becoming a total laughing stock.
Apart from the Telegraph piece what information do we have that the lawyer's son was a grown-up ?
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my mum sitll comes to my medical appoitments with me etc and im 34 parenthood doesnt stop when your 18 unlike the uk who seem to ship theur kids off to boarding school aged 8 out of site out of mind ehh?
Well, just for comparison. Two extremely close relatives of mine and me around that age.
Female, age 32, married, two children (had three but one died while a toddler from congenital illness), left school at sixteen, business woman with small chain of upmarket chocolate shops.
Female, age 34. left school and home at 18, worked her way during university in various sales jobs, three degrees, first, masters and doctorate. Works at national headquarters of a major company. Has bought her own apartment and has almost finished building her own house. Took her grandmother in when she was very ill and needed regular hospital treatment (and paid privately for that treatment for her and accompanied her to her appointments). About to get married.
Male - (me when I was 34, some years ago now). Left school and home at 18. University with grant for first degree but two further degrees (masters and doctorate) undertaken part time while working. Working in London, responsible for team of 32 subordinates.
Not everybody chooses to live at home with mummy and daddy till they are in their mid-30s you know. And not everyone automatically believes that daddy must be present for pre-arranged surgery on the hand of his adult child.
And just in case you didn't know - a large proportion of boarders in the UK are now from foreign parts including Europe, Asia and even Australasia.
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Well, just for comparison. Two extremely close relatives of mine and me around that age.
Female, age 32, married, two children (had three but one died while a toddler from congenital illness), left school at sixteen, business woman with small chain of upmarket chocolate shops.
Female, age 34. left school and home at 18, worked her way during university in various sales jobs, three degrees, first, masters and doctorate. Works at national headquarters of a major company. Has bought her own apartment and has almost finished building her own house. Took her grandmother in when she was very ill and needed regular hospital treatment (and paid privately for that treatment for her and accompanied her to her appointments). About to get married.
Male - (me when I was 34, some years ago now). Left school and home at 18. University with grant for first degree but two further degrees (masters and doctorate) undertaken part time while working. Working in London, responsible for team of 32 subordinates.
Not everybody chooses to live at home with mummy and daddy till they are in their mid-30s you know. And not everyone automatically believes that daddy must be present for pre-arranged surgery on the hand of his adult child.
And just in case you didn't know - a large proportion of boarders in the UK are now from foreign parts including Europe, Asia and even Australasia.
So now you have dusted off your ego gilet, do you know the circumstances of the operation ? Does the adult son have special needs, either mental or physical which would necessitate his father being present ? How do we even know the lawyer's son is an adult ?
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So now you have dusted off your ego gilet, do you know the circumstances of the operation ? Does the adult son have special needs, either mental or physical which would necessitate his father being present ? How do we even know the lawyer's son is an adult ?
“I saw the request to adjourn this morning. The facts are that we have organised the trial and the lawyer was actually here, so I was expecting the trial today. I asked the judge to at least hear my witness.”
Isabel Duarte.
This appears to have been a scheduled medical appointment that Snr Santos didn't trouble to tell the judge about until Gerry arrived in Portugal to testify ....
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The former police officer’s lawyer, Vitor Santos de Oliveira, applied to halt the hearing on Thursday night, telling the court his son was in hospital.
He said: “My son is having an operation. I hope that because of this you won't be making a hullabaloo saying that Gonçalo Amaral is holding things up.”
Isabel Duarte, the lawyer who is representing the McCann family said: “It’s not surreal, it’s Portugal.”
“I saw the request to adjourn this morning. The facts are that we have organised the trial and the lawyer was actually here, so I was expecting the trial today. I asked the judge to at least hear my witness.”
So he applied on Thursday, but Isabel wasn't informed till Friday.
If this was urgent surgery, how come it could be put off till Friday, just in time for the court case to start.
Must have just been a coincidence 8-)(--)
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The former police officer’s lawyer, Vitor Santos de Oliveira, applied to halt the hearing on Thursday night, telling the court his son was in hospital.
He said: “My son is having an operation. I hope that because of this you won't be making a hullabaloo saying that Gonçalo Amaral is holding things up.”
Isabel Duarte, the lawyer who is representing the McCann family said: “It’s not surreal, it’s Portugal.”
“I saw the request to adjourn this morning. The facts are that we have organised the trial and the lawyer was actually here, so I was expecting the trial today. I asked the judge to at least hear my witness.”
So he applied on Thursday, but Isabel wasn't informed till Friday.
If this was urgent surgery, how come it could be put off till Friday, just in time for the court case to start.
Must have just been a coincidence 8-)(--)
How come mccann thought he could waltz in and try to take centre stage ?
Terrible disappointment for his ego. 8**8:/:
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How come mccann thought he could waltz in and try to take centre stage ?
Terrible disappointment for his ego. 8**8:/:
Who said this...the truth is he did not even know, and still doesn't whether he will be able to give evidence
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How come mccann thought he could waltz in and try to take centre stage ?
Terrible disappointment for his ego. 8**8:/:
well the mcanns think they own and run the world so i bet gerry found it hurtful and unhelpful 8((()*/
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The cynical side of me thinks deliberate.
The kinder side of me hopes that the child isn't seriously ill, but wonders if it true that it was a non emergency op?
If so then surely the Lawyer should have been aware that it was booked for today.
Just what is going on? Anyone actually know the truth?
I would argue that the serious answer to Lagos Ben's question is that Team Amaral is running scared ....
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The cynical side of me thinks deliberate.
The kinder side of me hopes that the child isn't seriously ill, but wonders if it true that it was a non emergency op?
If so then surely the Lawyer should have been aware that it was booked for today.
Just what is going on? Anyone actually know the truth?
You should be grateful. Because of this postponement, maybe, just maybe there is an opportunity to include Mr. McCann in the roll of witnesses.
Or, maybe, the suspicious side of me makes me wonder if this is not the desired outcome. As a media marketing ploy it would probably be more effective to be impeded from witnessing (because according to the law you are not able to do it just by popping in) and accusing the portuguese legal system of persecution, as usual.
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Back again -So has anyone answered the query ref Amarals Lawyers son?
Serious medical emergency or not ?
Must say, I was surprised to see Brunt tweet a photo of Amaral entering the Court on Friday and giving s thumbs up.
>@@(*&)
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Back again -So has anyone answered the query ref Amarals Lawyers son?
Serious medical emergency or not ?
Must say, I was surprised to see Brunt tweet a photo of Amaral entering the Court on Friday and giving s thumbs up.
>@@(*&)
It was the judge who made her decision in accordance with the law and based on the documents presented to her by the lawyer. All of the parties were only informed of her decision on Friday morning. If you have a problem with this, I suggest that you take it up with the judge. You do realise these things come up all of the time during trials all over the world.
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It was the judge who made her decision in accordance with the law and based on the documents presented to her by the lawyer. All of the parties were only informed of her decision on Friday morning. If you have a problem with this, I suggest that you take it up with the judge. You do realise these things come up all of the time during trials all over the world.
Yes I am aware of postponements. Although Amaral seems to avail himself of quite a few iirc.
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It was the judge who made her decision in accordance with the law and based on the documents presented to her by the lawyer. All of the parties were only informed of her decision on Friday morning. If you have a problem with this, I suggest that you take it up with the judge. You do realise these things come up all of the time during trials all over the world.
as a newcomer are you aware of just how unlucky..or dishonest ...amaral has been with the health of his lawyers and those close to him...If I was a lawyer I would be reluctant to take amamral as a client as one of my family would almost certainly be run over by a steam roller just as I was about to appear in court
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as a newcomer are you aware of just how unlucky..or dishonest ...amaral has been with the health of his lawyers and those close to him...If I was a lawyer I would be reluctant to take amamral as a client as one of my family would almost certainly be run over by a steam roller just as I was about to appear in court
I am no newcomer to this case and probably know more than you do.
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I am no newcomer to this case and probably know more than you do.
then you should be aware of just how many times amaral has run away from this case
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as a newcomer are you aware of just how unlucky..or dishonest ...amaral has been with the health of his lawyers and those close to him...If I was a lawyer I would be reluctant to take amamral as a client as one of my family would almost certainly be run over by a steam roller just as I was about to appear in court
@)(++(* Never thought of it like that.
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I am no newcomer to this case and probably know more than you do.
Therefore you might know if it was a serious medical condition or not. Why are our PT posters unwilling to answer a simple question.
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I am no newcomer to this case and probably know more than you do.
Do share, Montclair. What was the purported "stand alone evidence" that the PJ had?
Clearly not enough to warrant even an arrest, never mind chsrges.....
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Seriously, why did G. McCann allegedly wanted to witness in the Trial on 27th September?
With thanks to Sharonl, an extract of the transcription of the interview given at the door of the Lisbon Court.
Gerry McCann in Lisbon, 27 September 2013 - shown on ITV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTyyXsyUeac at 1:11
(UK reporter) Why is it important that you give evidence at this trial?
(G. McCann) Tch, well, the law’s changed (looks leftwards to Isabel Duarte), and I think errr I think that Kate and I know better than anyone else errr what we’ve experienced, and what we’ve gone through, and the fact of errr the file and errr ummm the damage that’s been caused to the search for Madeleine (Gerry nods)
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Seriously, why did G. McCann allegedly wanted to witness in the Trial on 27th September?
With thanks to Sharonl, an extract of the transcription of the interview given at the door of the Lisbon Court.
Gerry McCann in Lisbon, 27 September 2013 - shown on ITV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTyyXsyUeac at 1:11
(UK reporter) Why is it important that you give evidence at this trial?
(G. McCann) Tch, well, the law’s changed (looks leftwards to Isabel Duarte), and I think errr I think that Kate and I know better than anyone else errr what we’ve experienced, and what we’ve gone through, and the fact of errr the file and errr ummm the damage that’s been caused to the search for Madeleine (Gerry nods)
Why did they apply to be a witness at the eleventh hour? How can anyone expect to just fly in and pop into court and be heard just like that? Then be disappointed they couldnt? These thngs take some time and protocols I presume and if the law changed on Sept 1st his lawyer sat on this for nearly a month it seems. The defence also apparently have up to ten days to respond to these requests and the judge agree so how GM thought he might just fly in testify at drop of hat is beyond me...wasnt it Thursday night his request was put forward? Wouldnt his own lawyer and defence lawyers need time to prepare? In any case, fate took over it seems and no one could be heard that day.
PS Luz I thnk the bit you underlined means he was referring to knowing what was in the files, presumably sayng different to whats in the book
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Why did they apply to be a witness at the eleventh hour? How can anyone expect to just fly in and pop into court and be heard just like that? Then be disappointed they couldnt? These thngs take some time and protocols I presume and if the law changed on Sept 1st his lawyer sat on this for nearly a month it seems. The defence also apparently have up to ten days to respond to these requests and the judge agree so how GM thought he might just fly in testify at drop of hat is beyond me...wasnt it Thursday night his request was put forward? Wouldnt his own lawyer and defence lawyers need time to prepare? In any case, fate took over it seems and no one could be heard that day.
PS Luz I thnk the bit you underlined means he was referring to knowing what was in the files, presumably sayng different to whats in the book
TBH Red, I have no idea as I am not privy to what goes on between the McCanns and their lawyer. Portuguese law is nothing like UK law IMO, and so I can't even hazard a guess as to how it operates or why.
I do feel that the differences in Portuguese law added to the serious cultural differences will not favour the McCanns and it would not surprise me if they do not win their case - even though I totally believe that justice will not have been served if they don't. IMO Amarals's book is libellous, it is littered with lies, half lies and lies by omission - not to mention the sly spiteful inuendo which pervades it.
I'm waiting to see if the fact that Amaral has never met or spoken to the McCanns is brought up in court - as for me that is the most deceitful part of his book as IMO he deliberately withholds that most important fact - and I would not be surprised if many people - especially in Portugal have no idea that that is the case.
Obviously I don't expect you to agree with me, but you did ask me to look at this post - and I have answered it honestly.