Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: insider on November 24, 2013, 01:08:35 AM
Title: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: insider on November 24, 2013, 01:08:35 AM
Support: Donations The full objects of the Fund are:
To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;
To procure that Madeleine's abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice; and
To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family.
If the above objects are fulfilled then the objects of the Foundation shall be to pursue such purposes in similar cases arising in the United Kingdom, Portugal or elsewhere.
http://www.findmadeleine.com/support/index.html
48
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: faithlilly on November 24, 2013, 09:39:11 AM
Support: Donations The full objects of the Fund are:
To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;
To procure that Madeleine's abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice; and
To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family.
If the above objects are fulfilled then the objects of the Foundation shall be to pursue such purposes in similar cases arising in the United Kingdom, Portugal or elsewhere.
http://www.findmadeleine.com/support/index.html
Nothing about funding vexatious libel litigation then ?
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on November 24, 2013, 04:08:35 PM
That could be included under the umbrella ' to provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family'.
Interesting in its complete vagueness.
Indeed SH !
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Redblossom on November 24, 2013, 04:56:21 PM
They are all vague and all encompassing enough.....interesting these objects/objectives were set in the middle of May 2007 when the Police investigation was hardly two weeks in.....did they have a crystal ball? Im referring particularly to no 2 Indeed at the fund launch John Mccann talked about private investigators...video available somewhere
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on November 24, 2013, 05:05:14 PM
They are all vague and all encompassing enough.....interesting these objects/objectives were set in the middle of May 2007 when the Police investigation was hardly two weeks in.....did they have a crystal ball? Im referring particularly to no 2
I have not looked too closely at the wording on the findmadeliene website before, but it seems to me the McCanns are being quite transparent about the fact that monies raised are likely to be used privately by the family.
Providing 'financial assistance' to a family implies money for relatively basic things, doesn't it?
According to that wording, any aspect of the McCanns' living expenses could be covered by the fund.
If so, why are we surprised when a mortgage payment was covered by the fund?
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Redblossom on November 24, 2013, 05:21:36 PM
I have not looked too closely at the wording on the findmadeliene website before, but it seems to me the McCanns are being quite transparent about the fact that monies raised are likely to be used privately by the family.
Providing 'financial assistance' to a family implies money for relatively basic things, doesn't it?
According to that wording, any aspect of the McCanns' living expenses could be covered by the fund.
If so, why are we surprised when a mortgage payment was covered by the fund?
my point in my quoted post has nothing to do with that...but anyway....when people donated money they were not reading the articles of the fund....they donated money to help find the child....granted most wouldnt care how it was used if it served that purpose.....when it came out in summer 2007... Dont ask me WHO leaked the info and why.......that they had used circa 5k to pay 2 mortgage payments...some people were agog....as this was considered outside said purpose....now both the Mccanns will have had paid compassionate leave, for how long I dont know....but obviously they were stuck financially...their mortgage on their own house didnt seem to be the reaponsibility/wishes of donators.....they did pay it back apparently...doing so means they too didnt thnk it fell within the objectives of the fund.....it was a temporary loan of sorts
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on November 24, 2013, 05:32:26 PM
my point in my quoted post has nothing to do with that...but anyway....when people donated money they were not reading the articles of the fund....they donated money to help find the child....granted most wouldnt care how it was used if it served that purpose.....when it came out in summer 2007... Dont ask me WHO leaked the info and why.......that they had used circa 5k to pay 2 mortgage payments...some people were agog....as this was considered outside said purpose....now both the Mccanns will have had paid compassionate leave, for how long I dont know....but obviously they were stuck financially...their mortgage on their own house didnt seem to be the reaponsibility/wishes of donators.....they did pay it back apparently...doing so means they too didnt thnk it fell within the objectives of the fund.....it was a temporary loan of sorts
Thanks for all those details. I assume the very general wording on the website represents lawyers' advice in order that the McCanns are covered against misappropration of funds.
Regarding your initial point about the objectives in May 07, what are you referring to?
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Redblossom on November 24, 2013, 05:55:33 PM
Thanks for all those details. I assume the very general wording on the website represents lawyers' advice in order that the McCanns are covered against misappropration of funds.
Regarding your initial point about the objectives in May 07, what are you referring to?
The second bullet point......presumes the fund will be used to investigate, that was less than two weeks in to the police investigation....
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: icabodcrane on November 24, 2013, 06:01:21 PM
The second bullet point......presumes the fund will be used to investigate, that was less than two weeks in to the police investigation....
That hadn't occured to me, but you are quite correct Red ... less than two weeks after they reported their child missing ( abducted ) they were already planning to run a parallel 'investigation' !
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on November 24, 2013, 06:06:50 PM
That hadn't occured to me, but you are quite correct Red ... less than two weeks after they reported their child missing ( abducted ) they were already planning to run a parallel 'investigation' !
Any family in today's world are going to run their own parallel investigation in the form of websites, social networking, etc. for a missing relative.
I have been following two missing persons cases this year where the families are very active in this way. They have websites, organise fund raisers, etc.
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: jassi on November 24, 2013, 06:12:48 PM
Any family in today's world are going to run their own parallel investigation in the form of websites, social networking, etc. for a missing relative.
I have been following two missing persons cases this year where the families are very active in this way. They have websites, organise fund raisers, etc.
Were they set up before 2007, or are they just following the McCann model?
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Redblossom on November 24, 2013, 06:17:33 PM
That hadn't occured to me, but you are quite correct Red ... less than two weeks after they reported their child missing ( abducted ) they were already planning to run a parallel 'investigation' !
yes,he paid lip service to the idea Madeleine might be found any day now but said as it becomes protracted we will have to do x y z
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Mr Gray on November 24, 2013, 06:18:06 PM
That hadn't occured to me, but you are quite correct Red ... less than two weeks after they reported their child missing ( abducted ) they were already planning to run a parallel 'investigation' !
They probably realised very quickly the PJ were rubbish
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Redblossom on November 24, 2013, 06:19:04 PM
Any family in today's world are going to run their own parallel investigation in the form of websites, social networking, etc. for a missing relative.
I have been following two missing persons cases this year where the families are very active in this way. They have websites, organise fund raisers, etc.
Setting up a facebook page and arranging fund raising is not a parallel investigation.....we are talking hiring private investigators here......
The family in general seemed so pro active, so pro active they tried to find out how the abductor got in before the police were called lol
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Redblossom on November 24, 2013, 06:21:03 PM
Any family in today's world are going to run their own parallel investigation in the form of websites, social networking, etc. for a missing relative.
I have been following two missing persons cases this year where the families are very active in this way. They have websites, organise fund raisers, etc.
At some point that might be an approach the family of a missing child might take, certainly ... but within days ?
The McCanns were insistant that someone had taken Madeleine from her bed
In those circumstances, in those early days, the hope that she would be found at any moment would be all consuming ( as would the dread of news that a little body had been found )
Organising websites and 'social networking' in those very early days is not something I would describe as predictable behaviour from the parents of an abducted three year old ... as you appear to be suggesting
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Mr Gray on November 24, 2013, 06:26:36 PM
At some point that might be an approach the family of a missing child might take, certainly ... but within days ?
The McCanns were insistant that someone had taken Madeleine from her bed
In those circumstances, in those early days, the hope that she would be found at any moment would be all consuming ( as would the dread of news that a little body had been found )
Organising websites and 'social networking' in those very early days is not something I would describe as predictable behaviour from the parents of an abducted three year old ... as you appear to be suggesting
Whatever they had done I feel you would criticise
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Angelo222 on November 24, 2013, 06:32:09 PM
Support: Donations The full objects of the Fund are:
To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;
To procure that Madeleine's abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice; and
To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family.
If the above objects are fulfilled then the objects of the Foundation shall be to pursue such purposes in similar cases arising in the United Kingdom, Portugal or elsewhere.
http://www.findmadeleine.com/support/index.html
The word SEARCH is very conspicuous by its absence???
Weren't we all told that the fund was to aid the search for Madeleine and not the pursuance of private prosecutions against those who question their version of the truth??
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Redblossom on November 24, 2013, 06:32:34 PM
if the police can work wih us...thats fantastic....says John....
From 0.44
The arrogance is mind blowing...and whats with the smirks!!! Ffs..
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Redblossom on November 24, 2013, 06:34:31 PM
You're taking that a bridge too far, Red. Can't be inferred from what is written.
What bridge? im quoting john mccann not from any written text but from camera....im still tryng to source the video..the bbc had a clean up a couple years ago......but its there somewhere and if its there i will find it....
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on November 24, 2013, 06:51:45 PM
Setting up a facebook page and arranging fund raising is not a parallel investigation.....we are talking hiring private investigators here......
The family in general seemed so pro active, so pro active they tried to find out how the abductor got in before the police were called lol
That's what I'm saying.
There's nothing in the bullet points to say that they intend to hire investigators. They could easily be talking simply about doing their own publicity.
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Redblossom on November 24, 2013, 06:58:11 PM
There's nothing in the bullet points to say that they intend to hire investigators. They could easily be talking simply about doing their own publicity.
so bullet point 2 was going to be achieved by fund raising and social networking? Are you for real? I already TOLD you in my post 4 John Mccann on launching the fund said it would be for private investigators!
Got to go
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on November 24, 2013, 07:16:29 PM
Were they set up before 2007, or are they just following the McCann model?
The two missing persons cases I am speaking of both date from earlier on this year, 2013. One is from January and the other is from June.
Both are British cases local to my home turf, which is why I am interested in them. One of them, the January case, I was peripherally involved in as I was holidaying a few streets away from where the person disappeared, at the time of the disappearance itself. Police interviewed me and many local residents. There was an extensive search.
After a few weeks the police gave up on the case due to lack of resources, so they claimed. The mother of the person who went missing set up a facebook page a few days after her son disappeared, and seemed to be constantly on line, organising teams of people to help search, engaging in fund raising events, and so on. After a few weeks the police made it clear that they did not have the funds to carry out searches (the terrain was difficult; river beds and extensive tracts of woodland and farmland had to be searched, and conditions were harsh) so the mother raised funds to enlist the help of private divers and private search teams who normally worked for the army, and so on.
By the look of it the mother was at her computer almost constantly for months and it seemed obvious to everyone that this was an appropriate role.
Her son's body was found in a field in mid-April under melting snow by a farmer. He had died of hypothermia on the cold January night.
It is actually a very interesting - and of course sad - case, as the mother and other relatives feel her son may have been drugged and that this element was not properly investigated by police. They also feel that police did not do enough in the early stages of the investigation. There are also a number of people on CCTV footage who must have been witnesses to certain things, and who are believed to be likely to live locally, who have not come forward. As far as the mother is concerned, hypothermia is the technical but not the ultimate cause of death. It could be an interesting case for this site.
The second case involves the disappearance of another student, currently thought to be in the Scottish Highlands somewhere. Police have drawn a blank. The girl's family and friends are running a website and making public appeals.
I don't know if either of these two groups of people were influenced by the McCanns. The cases are quite different. The mother in the first case is more of a Kerry Needham figure. She is a working class lady of limited influence and funds who has gone to great efforts to enlist help from charities and get local people to help her on an individual basis. The family of the second person is Russian and currently live in Russia, so the media aspect of the case in the UK is being run by the girl's UK friends. Possibly a mafia connection there as the Russian father is a person of wealth and influence.
Whatever the case it seems obvious that any family of a missing person today would use the media to assist them in various aspects of the case. Nothing suspicious at all. No police force, no matter how professional, appears to have the resources to investigate these cases properly.
Police on both of these cases have made several public statements to the effect that unless there is concrete evidence at an early stage of foul play, then the assumption is that no crime has been committed, and as such the disappearances are not a matter for the police. (It's no crime for an adult to disappear; in fact the police are obliged to protect the privacy and conceal the location of someone who disappears of their own volition and wants to remain free of contact from his or her relatives). As such these cases were put pretty quickly on the police's back burner. Seems like a catch 22 - there can only be a criminal investigation if there already evidence of a crime. But that's the way it is.
Back to the Madeleine case, I don't see any problem with raising funds to conduct a parallel investigation at all. It is well known that the police are not always going to be willing or able to get to the bottom of matters and the McCanns were reasonable to assume from the early days that if they wanted to find their daughter they would have to appoint themselves as directors and pull out all the stops.
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on November 24, 2013, 07:22:21 PM
so bullet point 2 was going to be achieved by fund raising and social networking? Are you for real? I already TOLD you in my post 4 John Mccann on launching the fund said it would be for private investigators!
Got to go
No but it could include that. Posters were being printed the next day so you could say that they got the ball rolling privately from then on. That doesn't exclude the idea of hiring private investigators.
And what's wrong with hiring private investigators anyway? Would you have entrusted your whole world to a local force you could barely communicate with?
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: icabodcrane on November 24, 2013, 07:26:47 PM
There's nothing in the bullet points to say that they intend to hire investigators. They could easily be talking simply about doing their own publicity.
I don't know how to do links, I'm sorry, but if you go to youtube and type in 'Radio Leicester John McCann' you will hear Eileen McCann ( Gerry's mother ) speaking about the creation of the fund and what Gerry and Kate intend doing with it ( stop at at about 16.38 )
She says that she presumes ( having been speaking to Gerry every night ) that if Madeleine is not found 'in the next week' they will be putting lawyers and investigators in most European countries ... and that would cost money
It is quite clear that the 'parallel investigation' the McCanns had in mind very early on was more than just social networking and publicity
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Apostate on November 24, 2013, 07:29:59 PM
Like everything else it's main objective is to promote the idea that the McCanns are entirely blameless
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on November 24, 2013, 07:51:24 PM
I don't know how to do links, I'm sorry, but if you go to youtube and type in 'Radio Leicester John McCann' you will hear Eileen McCann ( Gerry's mother ) speaking about the creation of the fund and what Gerry and Kate intend doing with it ( stop at at about 16.38 )
She says that she presumes ( having been speaking to Gerry every night ) that if Madeleine is not found 'in the next week' they will be putting lawyers and investigators in most European countries ... and that would cost money
It is quite clear that the 'parallel investigation' the McCanns had in mind very early on was more than just social networking and publicity
Yes I accept that, but what's the problem? Is is something suspicious or sinister to want to hire your own detectives? Provided the McCanns were transparent about use of funds - and speaking about private investigators at this point shows their transparency - what's the matter?
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: icabodcrane on November 24, 2013, 08:37:39 PM
Yes I accept that, but what's the problem? Is is something suspicious or sinister to want to hire your own detectives? Provided the McCanns were transparent about use of funds - and speaking about private investigators at this point shows their transparency - what's the matter?
The point I was making is that the McCanns had decided to run a parallel investigation within days of claiming their three year old had been abducted from her bed
When the news first broke I, and everyone else, were desperately hoping the little girl would be found, perhaps injured or trapped somewhere
As the days went on though, and the frantic searches proved fruitless, the awful dread that the next news would be of a little body having been found inevitably came
What I never thought, though, in those early days ( and I'm pretty sure not many other people did either ) was that what was needed was a Europe wide investigation ... even before the immediate vicinity had been thoroughly searched and all local enquiries exhausted
But the McCanns did plan ahead for just that sort of far reaching investigation/campaign ... and they did so within days ( almost as if they were certain the early investigation would be unsuccessful )
Don't you find that questionable ?
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Cariad on November 24, 2013, 09:06:32 PM
I don't know how to do links, I'm sorry, but if you go to youtube and type in 'Radio Leicester John McCann' you will hear Eileen McCann ( Gerry's mother ) speaking about the creation of the fund and what Gerry and Kate intend doing with it ( stop at at about 16.38 )
She says that she presumes ( having been speaking to Gerry every night ) that if Madeleine is not found 'in the next week' they will be putting lawyers and investigators in most European countries ... and that would cost money
It is quite clear that the 'parallel investigation' the McCanns had in mind very early on was more than just social networking and publicity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMj1LdfI6uI
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: icabodcrane on November 24, 2013, 09:28:02 PM
Yes I accept that, but what's the problem? Is is something suspicious or sinister to want to hire your own detectives? Provided the McCanns were transparent about use of funds - and speaking about private investigators at this point shows their transparency - what's the matter?
The point is why they were planning for private detectives not even two weeks into a police investigation and search.....as for transparency, purleeze...... their accounts are shrouded in secrecy .........legal but secret....and certainly NOT as transparent as charities which they lauded their fund / small business as gerry described it....would be
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Estuarine on February 19, 2014, 11:17:13 AM
The Fund is a private company limited by guarantee incorporated in England and Wales on 15th May 2007.It generates funds from public subscription. Has the company provided the public subscribers with sufficient information to be able to appreciate how their donations are being spent?
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Redblossom on February 19, 2014, 02:26:41 PM
If anyone who donated to the fund was interested to see where / how monies were spent, they wouldnt be able to do so as there is nothing on the official find madeleine website to detail this (that I can see)
Just a page setting out the fund objectives
So the millions the mccanns received in donations from the general public remain just that, donations, no feedback or info from the recipients to the donators
Eta The Daily Mail did an Article in 2008 on their first year accounts, other than that Joe Blogs wouldnt have a clue (even if they paid to get the accounts which became limited no detail versions after 2008)
The Fund meets it's statutory obligations and no more than that.
Transparency was just a word. Why should they actually do things if it seems al-right when they just say they'll do ? That's how they forced/opened the shutters/window. Very easy way.. Funny people !
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Estuarine on February 19, 2014, 08:41:17 PM
Transparency was just a word. Why should they actually do things if it seems al-right when they just say they'll do ? That's how they forced/opened the shutters/window. Very easy way.. Funny people !
I think this line from The Mikado sums it up; maybe not just the company either! "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative".
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: slartibartfast on February 20, 2014, 08:27:11 AM
I think this line from The Mikado sums it up; maybe not just the company either! "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative".
@)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 18, 2014, 12:18:54 PM
Oh deary me back to The Fund and whether or not it is fraudulent. My readings of threads on this forum suggest that this topic has been done to death...over and over again. "The Fund" is a small private company and as such has to present simple financial statements little more than a P&L, balance sheet and directors simple report to Companies House by a specific date each year. The accounts do not have to be prepared by a qualified accountant. There is no legal requirement for an external audit unless a member of the company asks for an audit. The purpose of an external audit is to provide an independent opinion on the truth and fairness of the financial statements, whether they have been properly prepared in accordance with the Companies Act and to issue a report to the directors. Should the company have been set up with Model Form Articles of Association it may then do anything the directors wish to turn a profit always provided that the actions are legal. Simples. Were such a fund fraudulent the only mechanism by which this could occur is self evident.
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 18, 2014, 04:27:40 PM
It does pay to know how things work. "The Fund" is set up as a Company Limited by Guarantee which is a commonplace structure for a small private non profit making organisation. As a non profit making organisation it will not be liable for corporation tax. HMRC's only interest will be in a return that demonstrates the company is not liable to pay any corporation tax. Normally in these instances HMRC will be satisfied with a copy of the P&L account and the balance sheet. This would not give any indication whether or not the operation were fraudulent. Just to set the record straight I do not believe the day to day operations are fraudulent. Whether the original set up was fraudulent is a different matter but unless someone can prove that those who set up the company knew Madeleine McCann was dead at the time of incorporation then that idea is going nowhere.
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Jean-Pierre on August 18, 2014, 04:58:41 PM
It does pay to know how things work. "The Fund" is set up as a Company Limited by Guarantee which is a commonplace structure for a small private non profit making organisation. As a non profit making organisation it will not be liable for corporation tax. HMRC's only interest will be in a return that demonstrates the company is not liable to pay any corporation tax. Normally in these instances HMRC will be satisfied with a copy of the P&L account and the balance sheet. This would not give any indication whether or not the operation were fraudulent. Just to set the record straight I do not believe the day to day operations are fraudulent. Whether the original set up was fraudulent is a different matter but unless someone can prove that those who set up the company knew Madeleine McCann was dead at the time of incorporation then that idea is going nowhere.
Sorry Alice - the company is liable to corporation tax on its profits.
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 18, 2014, 05:25:21 PM
Sorry Alice - the company is liable to corporation tax on its profits.
May be you should read my post again; specifically the bit about the fund being a NON PROFIT making organisation and therefore exempt from corporation tax. According the Companies House web check it is set up as such. So if it pays corporation tax it is not a non profit making organisation.
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: ferryman on August 18, 2014, 05:39:36 PM
May be you should read my post again; specifically the bit about the fund being a NON PROFIT making organisation and therefore exempt from corporation tax. According the Companies House web check it is set up as such. So if it pays corporation tax it is not a non profit making organisation.
Not for profit companies: Get the details right Posted by JAADAMS PM | on Fri, 23/09/2011 - 14:16 16702 13 comments More social links Twitter Facebook Linkedin Google+
Odds are that at some point during your professional life as an accountant you will come across what is termed a ‘not-for-profit’ (NFP) company, explains Jennifer Adams.
Queries placed in past Any Answers show that most at least know that these companies exist but problems can occur if not met on a regular basis. This article attempts to assist by bringing together the most relevant points in a short text indicating websites where further information can be found.
Various legal structures
A useful schedule comparing possible legal structures for such enterprises can be found on the Business Link website.
Ordinary Limited Companies
Companies can be run for a social purpose and still make a profit. These companies are set up in the usual way via form IN01 being either limited by shares or more usually by guarantee using the same proforma memorandum and articles, as per the Companies House website. The company is then run as any other company - paying dividends (if limited by shares) and salaries, submitting accounts and returns, paying corporation tax on profits and registering for VAT as necessary. The only difference is an additional clause to the articles stating that the object of the company is for a social purpose (new companies automatically have unrestricted objects unless a specific cause is detailed).
IDEA: A charitable donation to a registered charity relevant to the company of the profit made before the year end would ensure a reduced or no corporation tax charge.
‘Not-for-profit’ company
This also needs its articles amended but this time to state that the company is a ‘NFP’ company such that should any surplus profit be made then the profit is to be reinvested back into the company or social purpose for which the company was created rather than distributed as dividends (which is the reason why these companies are usually limited by guarantee). Again, as above, the company is run as any other company.
Community Interest Companies (CIC) - currently 5,650 registered in the UK
CIC’s are true ‘NFP’ companies. The concept was created in 2005 to enable better access to funding by companies set up for a social purpose. Additional eligibility tests need to be passed before CIC status is awarded.
Creation is again via the usual IN01 form (share or guarantee - public or private company) plus form CIC 36 (‘Declarations for forming a CIS company’) which includes a community interest statement certifying that the company is being formed to serve the community (rather than for private profit) plus a section to describe how the community will benefit. The CIC Regulator approves the application only if the statement passes the community interest test. CIC’s cannot register with Companies House electronically as each company has to be vetted by the CIC Regulator.
(For detailed information see the BIS website which also includes proforma memorandum and articles.)
CICs do not have charitable status and as such cannot receive the tax benefits of a charity, but in return they do not have the strict reporting requirements of a charity. A charity can set up a CIC subsidiary company.
How CICs operate
CICs follow specific rules, including:
Having an ‘asset lock’ - the assets are retained within the company or if transferred, are done so at not less than the full market value unless to another CIC as stated in the articles or permitted by the regulator.
A CIC created as a company limited by shares can be financed by selling shares although dividends are capped at an amount set by the regulator; this is to protect the ‘asset lock’ ensuring that the majority of the money invested is tied to that company and its social objectives rather than distributed to its shareholders.
The usual annual accounts and return are filed at Companies House with the addition of a CIS Report (CIS 34). This report is confirmation to the public that the community interest test is being complied with. CIC’s pay corporation tax and submit returns to HMRC as other companies. CIC annual accounts cannot be filed using the Companies House WebFiling service.
CIC companies are usually limited by guarantee as outside funding bodies appreciate members being unable to take a dividend. However, a company limited by guarantee has limited fund raising capacity as there are no shares to sell.
Charitable Incorporated Organisations (CIO’s)
A new structure enacted by the Charity Act 2006 Sch 7.
Similar in format to a CIC in that there is a ‘community interest statement’ and assets are ‘blocked’.
Created because it was felt that charities needed a structure that would provide the benefits of a company (particularly with the raising of finance and liability of debts) but without the administration and governance of two sets of legislation.
CIC’s are registered with the Charity Commission and not Companies House - therefore not a true company but it has a constitution, a trustee body and members. It will be required to file annual accounts and return but to the Charities Commission, not Companies House.
Members will have either no or limited liability.
For detailed information see the Charity Commission website.
FINAL NOTE: some ‘NFP’ companies are exempt from notification under the Data Protection Act 1998. See the ICO website.
Jennifer Adams FCIS TEP ATT is a freelance writer and author specialising in tax and company secretarial issues; she can be contacted at Abacus Business Solutions.
May be you should read my post again; specifically the bit about the fund being a NON PROFIT making organisation and therefore exempt from corporation tax. According the Companies House web check it is set up as such. So if it pays corporation tax it is not a non profit making organisation.
Alice - the company in question is a company limited by guarantee. It is generally termed a "not for profit" company because the shares (and therefore the shareholders) do not benefit from an increase in the value of the shares (and thus turn a profit by virtue of their ownership of the shares).
However, this does not mean that the company cannot engage in activities (eg trading in goods, provision of services) which will create a profit, and if it does so then those profits (correctly termed a "surplus) will be subject to tax - Corporation Tax. (unless of course it is a registered charity in which case it will be tax exempt).
If you look at the accounts for the comapny in question you will see that in the year to 2013, they did in fact pay CT of £9756.
There is an exception to this - Small, not-for-profit, non-charitable CLG are allowed to carry on a trade purely between its own members. They are deemed to trade "mutually" and as such are exempt from Corporation Tax. Clearly this does not apply to the Madeleines Fund.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id474.html
Title: Re: The Madeleine Fund - Leaving No Stone Unturned Ltd.
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 18, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
Alice - the company in question is a company limited by guarantee. It is generally termed a "not for profit" company because the shares (and therefore the shareholders) do not benefit from an increase in the value of the shares (and thus turn a profit by virtue of their ownership of the shares).
However, this does not mean that the company cannot engage in activities (eg trading in goods, provision of services) which will create a profit, and if it does so then those profits (correctly termed a "surplus) will be subject to tax - Corporation Tax. (unless of course it is a registered charity in which case it will be tax exempt).
If you look at the accounts for the comapny in question you will see that in the year to 2013, they did in fact pay CT of £9756.
There is an exception to this - Small, not-for-profit, non-charitable CLG are allowed to carry on a trade purely between its own members. They are deemed to trade "mutually" and as such are exempt from Corporation Tax. Clearly this does not apply to the Madeleines Fund.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id474.html
I understand what you say J-P. however a CLG does not have shareholders so will not pay out a distribution and the profit less tax will be returned to the company. We could have a nice esoteric discussion on this but will probably bore the pantaloons off the rest of the posters and incur the wrath of the mods for being off topic. My original point was that HMRC would only be interested in whether CT was payable not in examining the companies accounts to see if it was operating fraudulently (unless it jumped off the page at them).