Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Opal on June 11, 2016, 10:04:04 PM
Title: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Opal on June 11, 2016, 10:04:04 PM
9 FEB 1984 THURS.A CHALET BURNT DOWN
2ND MARCH 1984 FRIDAY SHOP BURNT DOWN ARSON SUSPECTED
7TH MARCH 1984 DIRECTORS MEETING - AGREED TO BUILD NEW SHOP. Did Neville Bamber suspect JB of burning down shop at Osea? Did Neville Bamber appease JB with offer of cottage in Goldhanger so keeping peace in family?
APRIL 1984 JB MOVES INTO HEAD STREET COTTAGE
DURING MONTHS OF JULY TO OCTOBER 1984 BAMBER SPOKE OF KILLING HIS FAMILY.
JUST BEFORE CHRISTMAS 1984 JB WASN'T GETTING ON WITH HIS FAMILY. SPENT CHRISTMAS WITH JB AND JM'S FAMILIES AT WHF AND GOLDHANGER
FROM CHRISTMAS 1984 UNTIL MARCH 1985 JB APPEARED TO BE MORE CONTENT AND APPEARED BY WHAT HE SAID TO BE GETTING ON BETTER WITH PARENTS.
BEGINNING OF MARCH 1985 JB BUYS EXPENSIVE MICROWAVE AND SUNBED.
MARCH 1985 OSEA ROAD TO OPEN FOR SEASON
MARCH 22 1985 OSEA OFFICE BURGLED £1,000 STOLEN
EASTER WEEKEND WAS APRIL 7TH 1985. - JUST BEFORE EASTER JB MENTIONED KILLING FAMILY AGAIN.
APRIL EASTER TIME 1985 JB HAS ARGUMENT WITH MOTHER. JB SAYS TO JM HE WON'T TALK TO MOTHER AGAIN UNLESS SHE WRITES HIM A CHEQUE. Did NB know about this?
2ND MAY 1985 OSEA SHAREHOLDERS MEETING . JEREMY ANGRY !
June 1985 RENT REVIEW WHF. WINTER 1984/85 PRE; DETAILED REPORT ON COND. OF PLOTS ON OSEA ROAD SITE.
FINANCIAL PRESSURE ON NB IN SPRING 1985. NB MOANS TO BW ABOUT JB SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY ON EXPENSIVE MICROWAVE/SUNBED. “MUST HAVE A FRIENDLY BANK MANAGER” NB CLAIMS TO BW. Does NB suspect JB of breaking into Osea Office on March 22nd 1985 and stealing £1,000?
NB INCREASINGLY DEPRESSED SUMMER 1985 1ST WEEK IN JUNE NB TALKS TO BW HE SEEMS UNWELL. NB TELLS BW HE IS GETTING HIS THINGS IN ORDER. BW ASKS IF NB IS ILL....SHE IS TOLD HE ISN'T, BUT GOES ON TO SAY.. WE MUST ALL GO AT SOME TIME. ALSO NB SAYS THAT THE SHOOTING SEASON IS COMING UP AND THERE COULD BE A SHOOTING ACCIDENT. Was NB suspicious of JB shooting him?
6TH AUGUST 1985. NB UNCHARACTERISTICALLY SHORT TO BW WHEN SHE PHONES WHF
All the above taken from CAL's book and Julie Mugford statements. I'd like your comments and ideas on this.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: david1819 on June 12, 2016, 01:48:55 AM
2ND MARCH 1984 FRIDAY SHOP BURNT DOWN ARSON SUSPECTED
7TH MARCH 1984 DIRECTORS MEETING - AGREED TO BUILD NEW SHOP. Did Neville Bamber suspect JB of burning down shop at Osea? Did Neville Bamber appease JB with offer of cottage in Goldhanger so keeping peace in family?
APRIL 1984 JB MOVES INTO HEAD STREET COTTAGE
DURING MONTHS OF JULY TO OCTOBER 1984 BAMBER SPOKE OF KILLING HIS FAMILY.
JUST BEFORE CHRISTMAS 1984 JB WASN'T GETTING ON WITH HIS FAMILY. SPENT CHRISTMAS WITH JB AND JM'S FAMILIES AT WHF AND GOLDHANGER
FROM CHRISTMAS 1984 UNTIL MARCH 1985 JB APPEARED TO BE MORE CONTENT AND APPEARED BY WHAT HE SAID TO BE GETTING ON BETTER WITH PARENTS.
BEGINNING OF MARCH 1985 JB BUYS EXPENSIVE MICROWAVE AND SUNBED.
MARCH 1985 OSEA ROAD TO OPEN FOR SEASON
MARCH 22 1985 OSEA OFFICE BURGLED £1,000 STOLEN
EASTER WEEKEND WAS APRIL 7TH 1985. - JUST BEFORE EASTER JB MENTIONED KILLING FAMILY AGAIN.
APRIL EASTER TIME 1985 JB HAS ARGUMENT WITH MOTHER. JB SAYS TO JM HE WON'T TALK TO MOTHER AGAIN UNLESS SHE WRITES HIM A CHEQUE. Did NB know about this?
2ND MAY 1985 OSEA SHAREHOLDERS MEETING . JEREMY ANGRY !
June 1985 RENT REVIEW WHF. WINTER 1984/85 PRE; DETAILED REPORT ON COND. OF PLOTS ON OSEA ROAD SITE.
FINANCIAL PRESSURE ON NB IN SPRING 1985. NB MOANS TO BW ABOUT JB SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY ON EXPENSIVE MICROWAVE/SUNBED. “MUST HAVE A FRIENDLY BANK MANAGER” NB CLAIMS TO BW. Does NB suspect JB of breaking into Osea Office on March 22nd 1985 and stealing £1,000?
NB INCREASINGLY DEPRESSED SUMMER 1985 1ST WEEK IN JUNE NB TALKS TO BW HE SEEMS UNWELL. NB TELLS BW HE IS GETTING HIS THINGS IN ORDER. BW ASKS IF NB IS ILL....SHE IS TOLD HE ISN'T, BUT GOES ON TO SAY.. WE MUST ALL GO AT SOME TIME. ALSO NB SAYS THAT THE SHOOTING SEASON IS COMING UP AND THERE COULD BE A SHOOTING ACCIDENT. Was NB suspicious of JB shooting him?
6TH AUGUST 1985. NB UNCHARACTERISTICALLY SHORT TO BW WHEN SHE PHONES WHF
All the above taken from CAL's book and Julie Mugford statements. I'd like your comments and ideas on this.
What is from JM and what is from CALs book? what are CALs sources?
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: adam on June 12, 2016, 07:09:28 AM
What is from JM and what is from CALs book? what are CALs sources?
So you're asking for a source from a source.
CAL will have sources. Otherwise she would not put it in the book. One of the sources would be JB himself. AE mentions the blazing row between Neville and Bamber at a board meeting.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: John on June 12, 2016, 11:53:30 AM
CAL will have sources. Otherwise she would not put it in the book. One of the sources would be JB himself. AE mentions the blazing row between Neville and Bamber at a board meeting.
Did Jeremy ever admit to arson?
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Opal on June 12, 2016, 12:25:45 PM
No John he didn't, I have just pointed out the dates of occurrences at Osea. but I was wondering if Neville suspected him anyway. JB was charged with the robbery at Osea Road.
I will put up the sources later today.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: adam on June 12, 2016, 12:46:15 PM
Why would Bamber commit arson ? It would not benefit him financially.
If he had done that, he would have surely told Julie.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: adam on June 12, 2016, 12:56:52 PM
If Julie was going to lie, she could have accused him of arson. She didn't because Bamber never did that. She accused him of the caravan break in, which he did do.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: John on June 12, 2016, 01:18:01 PM
No John he didn't, I have just pointed out the dates of occurrences at Osea. but I was wondering if Neville suspected him anyway. JB was charged with the robbery at Osea Road.
I will put up the sources later today.
The family long suspected Jeremy of the robbery at Osea.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Opal on June 12, 2016, 04:54:32 PM
9 FEB 1984 THURS.A CHALET BURNT DOWN Roger Wilkes book ‘Blood Relations’ page 54.
2ND MARCH 1984 FRIDAY SHOP BURNT DOWN ARSON SUSPECTED Roger Wilkes ‘Blood Relations’ page 54/55 7TH MARCH 1984 DIRECTORS MEETING - AGREED TO BUILD NEW SHOP. Did Neville Bamber suspect JB of burning down shop at Osea? Did Neville Bamber appease JB with offer of cottage in Goldhanger so keeping peace in family? Roger Wilkes book (Blood Relations) page 54.
APRIL 1984 JB MOVES INTO HEAD STREET COTTAGE Julie Mugford Police Statement 8/9/September 1985 Sheet 2.
DURING MONTHS OF JULY TO OCTOBER 1984 BAMBER SPOKE OF KILLING HIS FAMILY. - Julie Mugford Police Statement 8/9/Sept. 1985 sheet 6 JM corrects her dates given.
JUST BEFORE CHRISTMAS 1984 JB WASN'T GETTING ON WITH HIS FAMILY. SPENT CHRISTMAS WITH JB AND JM'S FAMILIES AT WHF AND GOLDHANGER Julie Mugford statement
FROM CHRISTMAS 1984 UNTIL MARCH 1985 JB APPEARED TO BE MORE CONTENT AND APPEARED BY WHAT HE SAID TO BE GETTING ON BETTER WITH PARENTS. Julie Mugford Statement
BEGINNING OF MARCH 1985 JB BUYS EXPENSIVE MICROWAVE AND SUNBED. Book Blood Relations. Page 58
MARCH 1985 OSEA ROAD TO OPEN FOR SEASON. Roger Wilkes book Blood Relations page 54
MARCH 22 1985 OSEA OFFICE BURGLED £1,000 STOLEN Sheet 16 Julie Mugford Police Statement 8/9 Sept.1985 Also Police Statement sheet 14/15 on 10th Sept. 1985. JB was eventually charged with break in at Osea. NB also told BW he was aware that his son was guilty. Source -BW Author CAL interviews 2014 chapter 15/page121
EASTER WEEKEND WAS APRIL 7TH 1985. - JUST BEFORE EASTER JB MENTIONED KILLING FAMILY AGAIN. Julie Mugford Police Statement 8/9/Sept. Sheet 8
APRIL EASTER TIME 1985 JB HAS ARGUMENT WITH MOTHER. JB SAYS TO JM HE WON'T TALK TO MOTHER AGAIN UNLESS SHE WRITES HIM A CHEQUE. Did NB know about this? Can't find this, but think it was from Julie Mugford Police statements
2ND MAY 1985 OSEA SHAREHOLDERS MEETING . JEREMY ANGRY ! (Blood Relations) page 55
June 1985 RENT REVIEW WHF. WINTER 1984/85 PRE; DETAILED REPORT ON COND. OF PLOTS ON OSEA ROAD SITE. Souce Roger Wilkes Blood Relations chapter 3 page 51
FINANCIAL PRESSURE ON NB IN SPRING 1985. NB MOANS TO BW ABOUT JB SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY ON EXPENSIVE MICROWAVE/SUNBED. “MUST HAVE A FRIENDLY BANK MANAGER” NB CLAIMS TO BW. Does NB suspect JB of breaking into Osea Office on March 22nd 1985 and stealing £1,000? NB also told BW he was aware that his son was guilty. Source -BW Author CAL interviews 2014 chapter 15/page121 Also – Book Blood Relations page 58
NB INCREASINGLY DEPRESSED SUMMER 1985 1ST WEEK IN JUNE NB TALKS TO BW HE SEEMS UNWELL. NB TELLS BW HE IS GETTING HIS THINGS IN ORDER. BW ASKS IF NB IS ILL....SHE IS TOLD HE ISN'T, BUT GOES ON TO SAY.. WE MUST ALL GO AT SOME TIME. ALSO NB SAYS THAT THE SHOOTING SEASON IS COMING UP AND THERE COULD BE A SHOOTING ACCIDENT. Was NB suspicious of JB shooting him? Blood Relations book. Page 59/60
6TH AUGUST 1985. NB UNCHARACTERISTICALLY SHORT TO BW WHEN SHE PHONES WHF . Blood Relations page 58
All the above taken from CAL's book and Julie Mugford statements. I'd like your comments and ideas on this.Whilst these dates and quotes are from Julie Mugford and the book Blood Relations. They can also be found in CAL's book as I said above
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Opal on June 12, 2016, 04:59:23 PM
CHRISTMAS 1984 – JANUARY 1985. JB SPOKE OF KILLING FAMILY AND BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE. Julie Mugford Police Statement 8/9/September 1985 sheet 5
Adam, although this was after the Osea Road Chalet was burnt down the year before....could this idea still be in JB's mind?
I know he spoke to Julie and other people about burning down WHF, but no one ever said he spoke about arson at the caravan site.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: mercury on June 13, 2016, 12:31:33 AM
I see the bamber case is as bemusing still even after conviction to many as the mccann case, so ho can people here go on the maddie boards and criticise discussion?? Obviously both cases are disputed,just saying
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Myster on June 13, 2016, 07:12:09 AM
Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him!!?
That's a silly question... of course he did!!!
... as pointed out by "dear, old biddy"* Barbara Wilson, who knew Nevill Bamber better than most...
*according to an occasional visiting McCannic! &%+((£
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 13, 2016, 10:11:05 AM
It's easy to overlook the fact BW was 37 yoa at the time of the tragedy and some 24 years NB's junior. The idea that NB would sit around at WHF during working hours gossiping with BW, the farm secretary and a woman young enough to be his daughter, about anything personal is IMO pie in the sky.
Most fathers would look stressed out and worried if they had a daughter with serious mental health issues unable to parent her two young children with a custody battle looming large.
BW thinks JB is where he should be. Fair enough. But I don't understand why she feels the need to pop up in these low budget docu/dramas. Surely a dignified silence would be preferable and what NB would expect? Exactly the reason NB wouldn't confide in her in the first place as she just loves to gossip. She can offer nothing of evidential value.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 13, 2016, 10:24:29 AM
I see the bamber case is as bemusing still even after conviction to many as the mccann case, so ho can people here go on the maddie boards and criticise discussion?? Obviously both cases are disputed,just saying
I guess both cases are classic 'whodunits' and appeal to the human psyche searching for the absolute truth.
The MM board has far more traffic than the JB board. Usually about 5 or 6x's for guests and members.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: APRIL on June 13, 2016, 11:01:58 AM
It's easy to overlook the fact BW was 37 yoa at the time of the tragedy and some 24 years NB's junior. The idea that NB would sit around at WHF during working hours gossiping with BW, the farm secretary and a woman young enough to be his daughter, about anything personal is IMO pie in the sky.
Most fathers would look stressed out and worried if they had a daughter with serious mental health issues unable to parent her two young children with a custody battle looming large.
BW thinks JB is where he should be. Fair enough. But I don't understand why she feels the need to pop up in these low budget docu/dramas. Surely a dignified silence would be preferable and what NB would expect? Exactly the reason NB wouldn't confide in her in the first place as she just loves to gossip. She can offer nothing of evidential value.
Hmm. I have to throw in here, that local legend -of the female variety- tells us that in old fashioned terms, Nevill had a twinkle in his eye. I'd say he was probably FIT!!!!! and liked to flirt. BW MAY have had a crush. She MAY have thought/hoped there was more going on than ACTUALLY was. She may, therefore have embroidered any conversations they had. WHAT age difference? 8(0(*
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 13, 2016, 11:25:39 AM
Hmm. I have to throw in here, that local legend -of the female variety- tells us that in old fashioned terms, Nevill had a twinkle in his eye. I'd say he was probably FIT!!!!! and liked to flirt. BW MAY have had a crush. She MAY have thought/hoped there was more going on than ACTUALLY was. She may, therefore have embroidered any conversations they had. WHAT age difference? 8(0(*
I'm sure you're probably right 8(0(*
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Myster on June 13, 2016, 12:42:12 PM
It's easy to overlook the fact BW was 37 yoa at the time of the tragedy and some 24 years NB's junior. The idea that NB would sit around at WHF during working hours gossiping with BW, the farm secretary and a woman young enough to be his daughter, about anything personal is IMO pie in the sky.
Most fathers would look stressed out and worried if they had a daughter with serious mental health issues unable to parent her two young children with a custody battle looming large.
BW thinks JB is where he should be. Fair enough. But I don't understand why she feels the need to pop up in these low budget docu/dramas. Surely a dignified silence would be preferable and what NB would expect? Exactly the reason NB wouldn't confide in her in the first place as she just loves to gossip. She can offer nothing of evidential value.
Because she was asked, and wanted to set the record straight about what really went on behind the scenes, instead of the drivel that Bamber spouts about loving his parents and how everything was hunky-dory at WHF.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 13, 2016, 01:17:04 PM
Because she was asked, and wanted to set the record straight about what really went on behind the scenes, instead of the drivel that Bamber spouts about loving his parents and how everything was hunky-dory at WHF.
Whether JB is guilty or innocent I doubt NB would expect or want BW airing her personal views and opinions to anyone prepared to listen. BW had been employed by the Bambers for 7 years at the time of the tragedy. Why don't we hear from longer serving employees like the Foakes or Jean Boutell?
BW can offer nothing of evidential value just her own personal opinions and views that have no bearing on the case.
No one knows what goes on behind the closed doors of others.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Angelo222 on June 13, 2016, 07:47:29 PM
It's easy to overlook the fact BW was 37 yoa at the time of the tragedy and some 24 years NB's junior. The idea that NB would sit around at WHF during working hours gossiping with BW, the farm secretary and a woman young enough to be his daughter, about anything personal is IMO pie in the sky.
Most fathers would look stressed out and worried if they had a daughter with serious mental health issues unable to parent her two young children with a custody battle looming large.
BW thinks JB is where he should be. Fair enough. But I don't understand why she feels the need to pop up in these low budget docu/dramas. Surely a dignified silence would be preferable and what NB would expect? Exactly the reason NB wouldn't confide in her in the first place as she just loves to gossip. She can offer nothing of evidential value.
Why is it pie in the Sky Holls? Babs was Nevs right hand woman, he depended on her for just about everything to do with the governance of the business. I have no doubt she was very efficient too which no doubt pissed Jeremy off somewhat.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Angelo222 on June 13, 2016, 07:51:03 PM
Whether JB is guilty or innocent I doubt NB would expect or want BW airing her personal views and opinions to anyone prepared to listen. BW had been employed by the Bambers for 7 years at the time of the tragedy. Why don't we hear from longer serving employees like the Foakes or Jean Boutell?
BW can offer nothing of evidential value just her own personal opinions and views that have no bearing on the case.
No one knows what goes on behind the closed doors of others.
That's where you are mistaken. Babs was party to many goings on at WHF, she is a principal witness.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 13, 2016, 09:46:26 PM
That's where you are mistaken. Babs was party to many goings on at WHF, she is a principal witness.
I don't believe I am mistaken. I haven't seen BW's trial testimony but I assume she was called as a witness on the basis she was one of the last people to speak with NB? She said she thought she had interupted an argument as NB was unusually short. This could mean anything.
Post trial she has commented as follows:
- JB taunted June by cycling round her - JB put a bag of live rats in BW's car - JB wore make-up - JB disagreed with NB over the day-to-day running of the farm - JB wasn't visibly upset when she collected the wages post tragedy - BW didn't witness JB visibly upset EVER - NB anticipated an early demise in a shooting accident
Even if all the above are true it is all meaningless. I don't believe any of the above featured in her trial testimony?
I would like to see an end to lay prosecution witnesses in criminal trials. Even when there's no bias such as simply identifying a defendant in say an armed robbery prosecution witnesses are notoriously unreliable.
An interesting case in point is that of murdered schoolboy Carl Bridgwater:
I don't believe I am mistaken. I haven't seen BW's trial testimony but I assume she was called as a witness on the basis she was one of the last people to speak with NB? She said she thought she had interupted an argument as NB was unusually short. This could mean anything.
Post trial she has commented as follows:
- JB taunted June by cycling round her - JB put a bag of live rats in BW's car - JB wore make-up - JB disagreed with NB over the day-to-day running of the farm - JB wasn't visibly upset when she collected the wages post tragedy - BW didn't witness JB visibly upset EVER - NB anticipated an early demise in a shooting accident
Even if all the above are true it is all meaningless. I don't believe any of the above featured in her trial testimony?
I would like to see an end to lay prosecution witnesses in criminal trials. Even when there's no bias such as simply identifying a defendant in say an armed robbery prosecution witnesses are notoriously unreliable.
An interesting case in point is that of murdered schoolboy Carl Bridgwater:
Those convicted of Carl Bridgewater's murder had their convictions quashed. Some of the prosecution witnesses provided false or misleading information.
Burt Spencer was a suspect but had an alibi. Now the witness who provided the alibi is saying she might have been mistaken.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: mercury on June 13, 2016, 11:39:59 PM
Yes I agree, but some people don't believe Neville Bamber did know JB wanted to kill him, because in believing this JB is put in the frame, plus it makes JM's statements more convincing. Do we all not have someone we confide in? There wasn't many people at WHF to confide in, BW questioned NB as he looked ill, Most of us would do the same to a work colleague
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Myster on June 14, 2016, 05:49:50 AM
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 14, 2016, 02:17:44 PM
It just seems odd to me that family members such as Pamela Boutflour, Jackie Wood nee Pargeter, Regina Pargeter and Colin Caffell all said the Bambers were private people and never discussed any personal/private family matters with anyone outside the immediate family. Therefore I don't understand why NB would confide in BW/farm secretary? Especially when I consider NB's background: boarder, RAF pilot in WW2, magistrate, director of several companies and 24 years BW's senior. Unless there was something more to the relationship than employer/ee and there's no evidence for this.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 14, 2016, 02:25:26 PM
It just seems odd to me that family members such as Pamela Boutflour, Jackie Wood nee Pargeter, Regina Pargeter and Colin Caffell all said the Bambers were private people and never discussed any personal/private family matters with anyone outside the immediate family. Therefore I don't understand why NB would confide in BW/farm secretary? Especially when I consider NB's background: boarder, RAF pilot in WW2, magistrate, director of several companies and 24 years BW's senior. Unless there was something more to the relationship than employer/ee and there's no evidence for this.
First of all confiding in family and close friends is the norm. Those who tell anyone and everyone their business are the exception not the rule. On occasion you will meet people who spill every problem and issue they have whenever you speak to them and most people try to avoid such people because of it. Then there are those who only tell personal issue to those they interact with on a regular basis who occasionally mention their problems. Obviously June and Nevill followed the general rule.
Second, BW no doubt witnessed Jeremy acting like a jerk as did many others. Nevill telling BW that he feared his son might shoot him while in the field claiming it was an accident because how miserably he acted towards Nevill is a far cry from recognizing Jeremy was planning to kill the entire family to get everything they own.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: APRIL on June 14, 2016, 04:56:20 PM
First of all confiding in family and close friends is the norm. Those who tell anyone and everyone their business are the exception not the rule. On occasion you will meet people who spill every problem and issue they have whenever you speak to them and most people try to avoid such people because of it. Then there are those who only tell personal issue to those they interact with on a regular basis who occasionally mention their problems. Obviously June and Nevill followed the general rule.
Second, BW no doubt witnessed Jeremy acting like a jerk as did many others. Nevill telling BW that he feared his son might shoot him while in the field claiming it was an accident because how miserably he acted towards Nevill is a far cry from recognizing Jeremy was planning to kill the entire family to get everything they own.
Actually, I can perfectly well see why Nevill would confide in BW as opposed to June or other family members, especially about something as delicate as Jeremy planning to kill him.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 14, 2016, 05:07:37 PM
First of all confiding in family and close friends is the norm. Those who tell anyone and everyone their business are the exception not the rule. On occasion you will meet people who spill every problem and issue they have whenever you speak to them and most people try to avoid such people because of it. Then there are those who only tell personal issue to those they interact with on a regular basis who occasionally mention their problems. Obviously June and Nevill followed the general rule.
Second, BW no doubt witnessed Jeremy acting like a jerk as did many others. Nevill telling BW that he feared his son might shoot him while in the field claiming it was an accident because how miserably he acted towards Nevill is a far cry from recognizing Jeremy was planning to kill the entire family to get everything they own.
Family members made it clear that NB and June never discussed personal matters with anyone.
NB didn't tell BW he feared JB might shoot him. She said he anticipated an early demise in a shooting accident but no mention of any names.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 14, 2016, 05:14:17 PM
Actually, I can perfectly well see why Nevill would confide in BW as opposed to June or other family members, especially about something as delicate as Jeremy planning to kill him.
Most men I know of a certain age and background would consider it bad manners to discuss anything personal with a secretary. It tends to be the likes of Mike and Gladys who are fond of sharing with the world and his dog.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 14, 2016, 05:31:06 PM
CAL Page 85:
Jacqueline Pargeter (NB's nicece) later told detectives:
"My uncle and aunt were very private people and would therefore keep private family business within the confines of the close family."
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 14, 2016, 05:33:25 PM
From Colin Caffell's book
Excerpt From Colin Caffell's Book
"One of the most striking things about that day, although not altogether surprising for me, was the fact that, the more I talked to June and Nevill's relations, the more I realised none of them actually knew anything had been seriously wrong with Bambs - not even June's sister Pam. Many of them said that had they known, they would have been more than willing to help and share the burden. Why hadn't I contacted them and told them all about it? I couldn't believe what I was hearing and could only reply by saying that I didn't feel it had been my business to betray the Bamber's confidence. They were very private people whose decisions I had to respect - whether right or wrong. These people had no idea how much I'd need them as allies to convince June and Nevill of how strongly I felt Bamb's treatment should have been changed".
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: APRIL on June 14, 2016, 05:41:20 PM
Most men I know of a certain age and background would consider it bad manners to discuss anything personal with a secretary. It tends to be the likes of Mike and Gladys who are fond of sharing with the world and his dog.
I wonder who else there was that he could have turned to. My neighbour -90+- insists that he was the recipient of the "I must never turn my back on that young man" statement but no mention of a planned killing. Maybe BW was told in a moment of desperation/weakness.
PS I know plenty of men "of a certain age and background" who wouldn't think twice about having an affair with their secretary -just for the record, I've never been a secretary!!!!!- but at least that isn't exhibiting bad manners because presumably nothing personal get discussed 8(0(*
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Myster on June 14, 2016, 05:58:31 PM
Holly will soon be on the hunt for others who were in receipt of NB's prediction. 8(8-))
Why not just accept it Holly. Stan Jones referred to BW as "a thoroughly honest person" in Operation Stokenchurch... but I expect more denigration of Stan the man will follow shortly.
I wonder who else there was that he could have turned to. My neighbour -90+- insists that he was the recipient of the "I must never turn my back on that young man" statement but no mention of a planned killing. Maybe BW was told in a moment of desperation/weakness.
PS I know plenty of men "of a certain age and background" who wouldn't think twice about having an affair with their secretary -just for the record, I've never been a secretary!!!!!- but at least that isn't exhibiting bad manners because presumably nothing personal get discussed 8(0(*
Yes that's what I said if the relationship went beyond employer/ee and they were lovers but there's no evidence for this.
Page 327 CAL's book:
"Pamela had no memory of the conversation although she was present, and Robert's account was therefore designated heresay, along with a remark Nevill was said to have passed about Jeremy, which Barbara Wilson repeated to Colin: 'I must never turn my back on that young man.' Today, Babara muses: I think that came about because they'd had a row and Jeremy threatened him. I can easily imagine him after a row, telling Mr Bamber, "You want to watch your back, Dad, when you're out shooting"'.
So BW admits it's all down to her imagination!
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: APRIL on June 14, 2016, 06:07:20 PM
Yes that's what I said if the relationship went beyond employer/ee and they were lovers but there's no evidence for this.
Page 327 CAL's book:
"Pamela had no memory of the conversation although she was present, and Robert's account was therefore designated heresay, along with a remark Nevill was said to have passed about Jeremy, which Barbara Wilson repeated to Colin: 'I must never turn my back on that young man.' Today, Babara muses: I think that came about because they'd had a row and Jeremy threatened him. I can easily imagine him after a row, telling Mr Bamber, "You want to watch your back, Dad, when you're out shooting"'.
So BW admits it's all down to her imagination!
I absolutely concur that there isn't, BUT..................I can see the possibility of an emotional relationship going on in her head which could amount to her talking about more intimate conversations than took place in reality. As a witness, I don't think she was all that.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 14, 2016, 06:08:15 PM
Holly will soon be on the hunt for others who were in receipt of NB's prediction. 8(8-))
Why not just accept it Holly. Stan Jones referred to BW as "a thoroughly honest person" in Operation Stokenchurch... but I expect more denigration of Stan the man will follow shortly.
I'm sure BW was/is honest and decent. I think I've posted to this effect previously. But this doesn't mean she is accurate and reliable in her recollections of conversations which are based on her interpretations and perceptions etc. In my post above she starts "imagining" which then become accurate facts for some.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: scipio_usmc on June 14, 2016, 06:24:27 PM
Family members made it clear that NB and June never discussed personal matters with anyone.
NB didn't tell BW he feared JB might shoot him. She said he anticipated an early demise in a shooting accident but no mention of any names.
How would they know what Nevill and June told people they worked with daily and friends they interacted with? They could only speak to what they observed when they were present. How is my wife, brother, mother or father supposed to know who I tell what to when I am at work or elsewhere when they are not around? They can speculate but that is all that it is. Do I talk about them to other people-I'm not going to lie- sure I do. Do they know I do such- no of course they don't because I am smart enough to tell people who are not going to tell them either because the people I tell never interact with my family period and/or are not the sort to just go blab to everyone.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 14, 2016, 06:33:03 PM
How would they know what Nevill and June told people they worked with daily and friends they interacted with? They could only speak to what they observed when they were present. How is my wife, brother, mother or father supposed to know who I tell what to when I am at work or elsewhere when they are not around? They can speculate but that is all that it is. Do I talk about them to other people-I'm not going to lie- sure I do. Do they know I do such- no of course they don't because I am smart enough to tell people who are not going to tell them either because the people I tell never interact with my family period and/or are not the sort to just go blab to everyone.
I have had many hols in the US but I'm not overly familiar with your people and culture. And those that I've mixed with have in the main tended to be around my own age.
In the main English people of NB and June's generation and background simply wouldn't go around talking about personal matters with members of their staff. It would be considered inappropriate and bad manners.
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: Holly Goodhead on June 14, 2016, 06:35:04 PM
NB had two long standing male friends who lived locally so if he felt the need to share then why choose BW over them?
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: APRIL on June 14, 2016, 06:41:17 PM
"Pamela had no memory of the conversation although she was present, and Robert's account was therefore designated heresay, along with a remark Nevill was said to have passed about Jeremy, which Barbara Wilson repeated to Colin: 'I must never turn my back on that young man.' Today, Babara muses: I think that came about because they'd had a row and Jeremy threatened him. I can easily imagine him after a row, telling Mr Bamber, "You want to watch your back, Dad, when you're out shooting"'.
So BW admits it's all down to her imagination!
CAL book page 131. taken from Barbara Wilson Author Interviews 2014. Barbara Wilson and CAL weren't imagining this conversation.
Neville exhaling slowly, he mused how ungrateful children could be before mentioning that a new hiding place was needed for the safe key. Then he picked up his mother's prayer book and asked 'Barbara, if anything ever happens to me, will you promise to look after the farm?'
Barbara - How are you Mr Bamber? Are you sure you're not ill?' Are you ill"?
Neville - slowly shook his head. 'No Barbara, but we're all going to die at some stage, aren't we? Though I wouldn't be surprised if it happens to me while I'm out shooting.'
Title: Re: Did Neville Bamber Know JB Wanted to Kill Him?
Post by: mercury on June 15, 2016, 01:08:49 AM