UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Holly Goodhead on June 16, 2016, 09:56:28 PM
-
JM makes various claims in her WS's about JB's long history of using, producing and supplying cannabis. This includes:
- JB frequently using cannabis
- JB growing cannabis plants inbetween barns at WHF
- MM visiting JB's cottage to handover hemp seeds for producing cannabis and discussing ways and means of supplying
- JB purchasing equipment for growing cannabis
- JB maintaining the plants inside his cottage and transferring them to his garden
- JB sending parcels of cannabis to a hitchhiker in Scotland for £100 cash mailed to JB via a Mr Page at the local post office
- JB and JM packing cannabis in plastic money bags for JM to sell on campus
- JB, JM and BC visiting Amsterdam purchasing cannabis and smuggling it into the UK
- JM said JB received a tip off from a neighbour that the police or drug squad visited his cottage to look at the cannabis plants pre murders and as a result JB destroyed them
Reading WS's it appears that others connected with JB and JM were at the very least using cannabis if not supplying from JB's production.
- Why didn't EP pursue the cannabis with JB during his police interviews?
- Why didn't EP press charges against JB over the cannabis? They pressed charges over Osea Caravan Park (OCP).
- No mention of the cannabis is made in the background section of the CoA document. Although OCP and JM's cheque fraud are mentioned.
-
JM makes various claims in her WS's about JB's long history of using, producing and supplying cannabis. This includes:
- JB frequently using cannabis
- JB growing cannabis plants inbetween barns at WHF
- MM visiting JB's cottage to handover hemp seeds for producing cannabis and discussing ways and means of supplying
- JB purchasing equipment for growing cannabis
- JB maintaining the plants inside his cottage and transferring them to his garden
- JB sending parcels of cannabis to a hitchhiker in Scotland for £100 cash mailed to JB via a Mr Page at the local post office
- JB and JM packing cannabis in plastic money bags for JM to sell on campus
- JB, JM and BC visiting Amsterdam purchasing cannabis and smuggling it into the UK
- JM said JB received a tip off from a neighbour that the police or drug squad visited his cottage to look at the cannabis plants pre murders and as a result JB destroyed them
Reading WS's it appears that others connected with JB and JM were at the very least using cannabis if not supplying from JB's production.
- Why didn't EP pursue the cannabis with JB during his police interviews?
- Why didn't EP press charges against JB over the cannabis? They pressed charges over OCP.
- No mention of the cannabis is made in the background section of the CoA document. Although OCP and JM's cheque fraud are mentioned.
It's such a soft drug.
It was only recently upgraded to class B from C, against expert advice.
As far back as 1979 the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs has recommended it be class C.
Not one recorded fatality in history from the use of cannabis.
JB's weed dealings are very, very petty crime, probably not worth the police paperwork, at a guess.
?>)()<
Police won't target pot smokers and small-scale growers, say commissioners
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/22/police-wont-target-pot-smokers-small-scale-growers-commissioners
Cannabis: Derbyshire, Dorset and Surrey police will no longer seek to arrest pot growers and smokers
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cannabis-derbyshire-dorset-surrey-police-will-no-longer-seek-arrest-pot-growers-smokers-1513180
-
JM makes various claims in her WS's about JB's long history of using, producing and supplying cannabis. This includes:
- JB frequently using cannabis
- JB growing cannabis plants inbetween barns at WHF
- MM visiting JB's cottage to handover hemp seeds for producing cannabis and discussing ways and means of supplying
- JB purchasing equipment for growing cannabis
- JB maintaining the plants inside his cottage and transferring them to his garden
- JB sending parcels of cannabis to a hitchhiker in Scotland for £100 cash mailed to JB via a Mr Page at the local post office
- JB and JM packing cannabis in plastic money bags for JM to sell on campus
- JB, JM and BC visiting Amsterdam purchasing cannabis and smuggling it into the UK
- JM said JB received a tip off from a neighbour that the police or drug squad visited his cottage to look at the cannabis plants pre murders and as a result JB destroyed them
Reading WS's it appears that others connected with JB and JM were at the very least using cannabis if not supplying from JB's production.
- Why didn't EP pursue the cannabis with JB during his police interviews?
- Why didn't EP press charges against JB over the cannabis? They pressed charges over OCP.
- No mention of the cannabis is made in the background section of the CoA document. Although OCP and JM's cheque fraud are mentioned.
Jeremy could have been lying to Julie about how much drugs he was growing and selling. All they had was his own admissions to her which could have been built up. In the meantime that amount he claimed to was small. It would result in little penalty. Why would they bother trying to get him on a minor crime that would be difficult to prove when they had him for murder?
If he had some massive drug operation with suppliers who were higher up who they could pursue and lots of employees he had who could be pursued that would be something different but that is not even close to what was claimed.
-
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKjSFHVbLPv5in6IHL5DPJHni1MmRA5SI4SIQlNwFx61R8tLaR)
?>)()<
-
EP went into JB's background with a fine toothcomb. I believe RB also carried out his own enquires. All they turned up was:
- use of cannabis, growing and selling small quantities for profit
- breaking into OCP and stealing a few hundred pounds
Those that knew him independently such as the landlord of his local pub, manager at Burnham country club, employers at Little Chef, neighbours, either spoke highly of him or had nothing adverse to say.
Holly, above is your reply to my post about JB and drugs. So having found this out EP were more concerned in getting a murder confession from JB when taking his statements.
SB and JM were best friends having had rooms next to each other at different colleges before moving into Caterham Road. JM eventually had to share the info she had on the murders for her own peace of mind....JM confided in SB....just like JB did to JM. EP didn't turn up enough evidence to prosecute anyone on the drugs situation, so could hardly frame prosecution witnesses with a drug prosecution.
-
EP went into JB's background with a fine toothcomb. I believe RB also carried out his own enquires. All they turned up was:
- use of cannabis, growing and selling small quantities for profit
- breaking into OCP and stealing a few hundred pounds
Those that knew him independently such as the landlord of his local pub, manager at Burnham country club, employers at Little Chef, neighbours, either spoke highly of him or had nothing adverse to say.
Holly, above is your reply to my post about JB and drugs. So having found this out EP were more concerned in getting a murder confession from JB when taking his statements.
SB and JM were best friends having had rooms next to each other at different colleges before moving into Caterham Road. JM eventually had to share the info she had on the murders for her own peace of mind....JM confided in SB....just like JB did to JM. EP didn't turn up enough evidence to prosecute anyone on the drugs situation, so could hardly frame prosecution witnesses with a drug prosecution.
I agree Opal, it's also inevitable that they would speak about what Julie had told Susan, given that they shared a house. Julie saying they didn't is either that she being a DQ or, she didn't want it to sound as though they had colluded - which she would be accused of no matter what she did (and has been).
-
EP went into JB's background with a fine toothcomb. I believe RB also carried out his own enquires. All they turned up was:
- use of cannabis, growing and selling small quantities for profit
- breaking into OCP and stealing a few hundred pounds
Those that knew him independently such as the landlord of his local pub, manager at Burnham country club, employers at Little Chef, neighbours, either spoke highly of him or had nothing adverse to say.
Holly, above is your reply to my post about JB and drugs. So having found this out EP were more concerned in getting a murder confession from JB when taking his statements.
SB and JM were best friends having had rooms next to each other at different colleges before moving into Caterham Road. JM eventually had to share the info she had on the murders for her own peace of mind....JM confided in SB....just like JB did to JM. EP didn't turn up enough evidence to prosecute anyone on the drugs situation, so could hardly frame prosecution witnesses with a drug prosecution.
EP questioned JB over OCP. He admitted liability. He subsequently appeared at magistrates court over it. Why not question JB over the cannabis and look to press charges? He may have admitted it straight away as he did with OCP. If not EP would surely have enough evidence anyway as according to JM the police or drug squad called at his property pre murders to look at the cannabis plants. Why would JM say this if it wasn't true? If it is true why were EP wasting resources sending officers/drug squad to look at cannabis plants without taking the appropriate action?
-
As you say Holly, JM was speaking of before the murders when the police called to Bourtree Cottage, EP found nothing there as a neighbour had pre-warned JB that they were coming. JM also states that JB was really angry as he had to pull all the plants up before hand, plus the rats had eaten the plants JB planted at WHF. So no charges could be bought.
JM gives the time of the police visit as Summer 1984.
JM statement 10th September 1985.Page 4/5
-
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKjSFHVbLPv5in6IHL5DPJHni1MmRA5SI4SIQlNwFx61R8tLaR)
?>)()<
Lol @)(++(*
-
As you say Holly, JM was speaking of before the murders when the police called to Bourtree Cottage, EP found nothing there as a neighbour had pre-warned JB that they were coming. JM also states that JB was really angry as he had to pull all the plants up before hand, plus the rats had eaten the plants JB planted at WHF. So no charges could be bought.
JM gives the time of the police visit as Summer 1984.
JM statement 10th September 1985.Page 4/5
JM doesn't make it clear exactly when the claimed visit from the police/drug squad took place. I don't believe it was the summer of 1984?
In the following WS JM states "This year Jeremy again grew cannabis plants". As JM got together with JB shortly before Christmas 1983 I'm assuming she is referring to 1985 when she states "This year Jeremy again..."
After she explains about rats at WHF eating the cannabis plants and JB destroying the plants in his garden she states BC arrived from New Zealand. I think she must be referring to 1985
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=283.0;attach=1060
According to JM, EP did in fact observe the cannabis plants growing in JB's garden. JM also claims JB received a phone call from a neighbour advising him that the police/drug squad had visited and looked at his cannabis plants. As a result of this JB destroyed the plants. This clearly makes no sense. If the police decided the situation warranted a visit by either police officers or the drug squad and found cannabis plants they would clearly pursue the matter with JB. They would take photographic evidence along with plant samples and possibly soil too. They would then surely wait for JB to arrive home to arrest him or establish his whereabouts and go and arrest him for interview. Meanwhile an officer would stand guard over the plants.
We only have a fraction of the available docs on this forum. I've had a flick through CAL's book and it appears when DI Miller interviewed BC he was quizzed about his and JB's involvement with drugs. When JB was arrested at Morsehead Mansions on 8th Sept JB immediately handed over cannabis in his possession.
EP were keen to establish the exact nature of BC's relationship with JB asking whether there was anything sexual to it. They also asked JM about her sex life with JB. Given that none of the crimes JB was charged with were of a sexual nature why would they want to go down this avenue but not bother even asking him about the cannabis?
Many of the witnesses at trial were involved with JB's drugs from Matthew MacDonald supplying hemp seeds to JM's claims of the police/drug squad visiting.
As Wonderfulspam said it's a bit of a grey area as many police forces don't bother pursuing. Plus at times cannabis has been downgraded from Cat B to Cat C. Although legally the penalties can be stiff by way of a custodial sentence and/or a monetary fine for Cat B and Cat C. In JB's case I believe EP used it to put the frighteners on various witnesses AFTER they convinced all concerned JB was guilty.
https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing
-
JM doesn't make it clear exactly when the claimed visit from the police/drug squad took place. I don't believe it was the summer of 1984?
In the following WS JM states "This year Jeremy again grew cannabis plants". As JM got together with JB shortly before Christmas 1983 I'm assuming she is referring to 1985 when she states "This year Jeremy again..."
After she explains about rats at WHF eating the cannabis plants and JB destroying the plants in his garden she states BC arrived from New Zealand. I think she must be referring to 1985
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=283.0;attach=1061;image
According to JM, EP did in fact observe the cannabis plants growing in JB's garden. JM also claims JB received a phone call from a neighbour advising him that the police/drug squad had visited and looked at his cannabis plants. As a result of this JB destroyed the plants. This clearly makes no sense. If the police decided the situation warranted a visit by either police officers or the drug squad and found cannabis plants they would clearly pursue the matter with JB. They would take photographic evidence along with plant samples and possibly soil too. They would then surely wait for JB to arrive home to arrest him or establish his whereabouts and go and arrest him for interview. Meanwhile an officer would stand guard over the plants.
We only have a fraction of the available docs on this forum. I've had a flick through CAL's book and it appears when DI Miller interviewed BC he was quizzed about his and JB's involvement with drugs. When JB was arrested at Morsehead Mansions on 8th Sept JB immediately handed over cannabis in his possession.
EP were keen to establish the exact nature of BC's relationship with JB asking whether there was anything sexual to it. They also asked JM about her sex life with JB. Given that none of the crimes JB was charged with were of a sexual nature why would they want to go down this avenue but not bother even asking him about the cannabis?
Many of the witnesses at trial were involved with JB's drugs from Matthew MacDonald supplying hemp seeds to JM's claims of the police/drug squad visiting.
As Wonderfulspam said it's a bit of a grey area as many police forces don't bother pursuing. Plus at times cannabis has been downgraded from Cat B to Cat C. Although legally the penalties can be stiff by way of a custodial sentence and/or a monetary fine for Cat B and Cat C. In JB's case I believe EP used it to put the frighteners on various witnesses AFTER they convinced all concerned JB was guilty.
https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing
Lol you couldn't make it up *&*%£
-
Your JM statement attachment above is only a thumbnail... can you correct it?
-
Your JM statement attachment above is only a thumbnail... can you correct it?
Certainly sir. Take it as done. ?>)()< All this talk of cannabis is making me feel quite smokey 8)-)))
-
Certainly sir. Take it as done. ?>)()< All this talk of cannabis is making me feel quite smokey 8)-)))
... and spaced-out just like Julie or one of her friends said Jeremy was, but I think that was because he popped Valium to cope with the stress of his dreams of a wealthy future falling apart.
Wonder if Sluis still contains hemp seeds, and why he wasted time picking them out? &%+((£
http://hamzter.blogg.no/1289762422_anbefalig_sluis_hamst.html (http://hamzter.blogg.no/1289762422_anbefalig_sluis_hamst.html)
Perhaps they weren't as widely sold loose in the 80's as they are now...
https://www.buywholefoodsonline.co.uk/organic-hemp-seeds-1kg.html?gclid=CJfis4nXr80CFcG6GwodkZ4OCg (https://www.buywholefoodsonline.co.uk/organic-hemp-seeds-1kg.html?gclid=CJfis4nXr80CFcG6GwodkZ4OCg)
Thanks for the correction.
-
JM doesn't make it clear exactly when the claimed visit from the police/drug squad took place. I don't believe it was the summer of 1984? My understand from JM's statement 10 September 1985 page 1 was that JM was speaking about Summer 1984. It could well have been 1985...but whatever year it was the cannabis plants were
destroyed before police got any evidence....only notes taken by the policeman that attended, so no good for prosecution without evidence.
In the following WS JM states "This year Jeremy again grew cannabis plants". As JM got together with JB shortly before Christmas 1983 I'm assuming she is referring to 1985 when she states "This year Jeremy again..."
Yes could be, MM first met JM in 1983 dropping off cannabis seeds to JB at WHF a couple of times, therefore JB had been growing cannabis for some time.
After she explains about rats at WHF eating the cannabis plants and JB destroying the plants in his garden she states BC arrived from New Zealand. I think she must be referring to 1985See above, JM's statement 1984 or 1985. JB had known BC for a few years. The point is JM was correct in saying JB was growing cannabis plants
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=283.0;attach=1060
According to JM, EP did in fact observe the cannabis plants growing in JB's garden. JM also claims JB received a phone call from a neighbour advising him that the police/drug squad had visited and looked at his cannabis plants. As a result of this JB destroyed the plants. This clearly makes no sense. If the police decided the situation warranted a visit by either police officers or the drug squad and found cannabis plants they would clearly pursue the matter with JB. No Evidence. JB could have lied again and said he didn't realise they were cannabis plants and had destroyed them when he realised.
They would take photographic evidence along with plant samples and possibly soil too. They would then surely wait for JB to arrive home to arrest him or establish his whereabouts and go and arrest him for interview. Meanwhile an officer would stand guard over the plants. It wasn't a big drug bust, someone had grassed...oops! him up so a police officer checked it out. They could have even rang JB and told him to destroy the plants. Remember this was before the murders and in the 1980's
We only have a fraction of the available docs on this forum. I've had a flick through CAL's book and it appears when DI Miller interviewed BC he was quizzed about his and JB's involvement with drugs.
Rightly so, as BC had form regarding drugs...page 75 CAL's book, of course this interview is after the murders.
When JB was arrested at Morsehead Mansions on 8th Sept JB immediately handed over cannabis in his possession.
Think I would have too. Just personal use.
EP were keen to establish the exact nature of BC's relationship with JB asking whether there was anything sexual to it. They also asked JM about her sex life with JB.
Could be to see if BC and JB were close enough to commit murder together. Hence why they asked JM of her sex life with JB! Given that none of the crimes JB was charged with were of a sexual nature why would they want to go down this avenue but not bother even asking him about the cannabis? No concrete evidence to prosecute.
Many of the witnesses at trial were involved with JB's drugs from Matthew MacDonald supplying hemp seeds to JM's claims of the police/drug squad visiting.
For witnesses personal use only not dealing! Not worth the effort of EP bringing charges, and both witnesses and EP knew this!
As Wonderfulspam said it's a bit of a grey area as many police forces don't bother pursuing. Plus at times cannabis has been downgraded from Cat B to Cat C. Although legally the penalties can be stiff by way of a custodial sentence and/or a monetary fine for Cat B and Cat C. In JB's case I believe EP used it to put the frighteners on various witnesses AFTER they convinced all concerned JB was guilty. No, are you seriously saying that the witnesses would be frightened, so lie and put a friend, relative away for life for murder when at most all they could get was a fine for personal use of drugs for first offence?
https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing
-
Opal in reply to your replies in Red above:
I haven't seen any evidence of the police taking notes at GH re the cannabis plants. If they wanted evidence they would take photos and samples. Job done.
MM states he first supplied JB with hemp seeds Jun/Jul '84 at GH. He knew JB through JB's earlier relationship with Suzette Ford. He did visit WHF and met June and NB. I think this was in his capacity as a kitchen fitter. Although the kitchen at WHF doesn't have much of the fitted kitchen about it!
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3254
EP could have told JB to destory the plants but there would surely be some paperwork attached to this which would resurface post murders.
If BC hadn't got a rock solid alibi there's no doubt he would have gone down with JB. It's clear from the DPP they struggle to fit the crime together. Claiming JB shot SC once before battling with NB in the kitchen and then returning to shoot SC a second time. This is at odds with the pathological evidence.
We don't know the extent of the cannabis (and other drugs) production, supply and use. Or EP's drug policy at that time. JM and SB both make reference to the drug squad in their statements.
EP didn't ask JB about his sex life. Perhaps because he had a solicitor present and it would be off limits. No solicitor present when JM and BC were interviewed hence they were free to ask what they wanted.
Yes I'm saying EP used the threat of drug related charges to coerce witnesses into testifying against JB along with selling them the idea HARD that JB was responsible. Many of the witnesses such as JM and SB were young and impressionable. JM was placed in isolation and without any legal representation. They were from middle classish backgrounds not high crime families and therefore unfamiliar with the police/law and its machinations. Lets be clear here I'm not saying they grassed JB up over his grass 8)-))) alone. I think EP brainwashed/groomed those that needed brainwashing/grooming into thinking JB was genuinely responsible.
-
When DI Miller interviewed MM he asks whether MM's lover, Christine Bacon, smokes grass. When MM responded rarely DI Miller asks if it was this year:
DIM: Does Christine smoke grass?
MM: No she rarely does. (Lol No she rarely does @)(++(*)
DIM: Was that this year?
MM: Early this year.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=lblfsf90dos80oc5emafd3hi17&action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3258
Just off for CAL to quote about the police search of Christine Bacon's house. I wouldn't mind betting EP found a quantity of cannabis whether it was there or not. 8(0(*. Another witness brainwashed and groomed with the threat of drug related charges used if and when required maybe perhaps &%+((£
-
CAL page 297:
"At 6.30am on Monday, 9 September Matthew McDonald's girlfriend Christine Bacon was taken into custody. While officers searched her home, Christine was interviewed by DI Miller at Witham. Divorced and free to pursue a relationship with Matthew, the father of her youngest child, Christine knew surprisingly little about her lover's life. She was unable to say whether he was still married, what work he did or even where he lived.
She was on firmer ground when discussing Jeremy, declaring that there 'wasn't a lot of love lost' between him and his family, and that he had often spoken of his parents favouring his sister 'a great deal financially'. He resented the fact that he was adopted and had talked about ' what he could do if his parents weren't around', which included buying a 'nice fast car, running the business and not [having] all the hassle with his father'. She believed him to be 'callous and aggressive enough' to have killed his family. Matthew hadn't spoken to him since Christmas, and Christine had sent the condolence card herself". %£&)**#
-
Why didn't EP pursue the cannabis with JB during his police interviews?
- Why didn't EP press charges against JB over the cannabis? They pressed charges over OCP.
- No mention of the cannabis is made in the background section of the CoA document. Although OCP and JM's cheque fraud are mentioned.
Because police generally concentrate on the bigger picture which in this case was five murders.
By the way, what did he get for the Osea Caravan Park robbery?
-
. Taken from ‘Jeremy Bamber Campaign for Freedom’
Considering that police had uncovered that Jeremy was selling cannabis, which grew in his garden, to his acquaintances, none of these people were approached to give statements. Curiously, the same applies to Sheila Caffell, a former model and socialite. It appears that only three of her friends gave statements. I suggest that the lack of witnesses who knew either Jeremy or Sheila was brought about deliberately by the police. There are many action reports detailing visits to friends of both Jeremy and Sheila but which resulted in there being no statements taken. One friend of Sheila’s told that she called the police about how dangerous Sheila was after the arrest of Jeremy but her calls were not responded to; she was told the police already had all the information on Sheila they required. [2] Another witness who knew Jeremy was angered that he had been arrested stating that he, “didn’t have the gumption to kill his family”[3] The large amount of statements are from people who knew very little of the Bamber’s at all, so it seems a large scale police operation provided little fruit. The majority of statements being made up of fodder, from witnesses along the lines of: Mrs Bloggs who walked her dog near the farm and said good morning to June sometimes.
It sounds as though regarding the drugs the Police couldn't have framed JB or his friends. Not enough evidence.
CAL 67
Matthew McDonald slept with Suzette Ford. Jeremy really angry
Motive for blaming MM for murders a year later?
-
. Taken from ‘Jeremy Bamber Campaign for Freedom’
Considering that police had uncovered that Jeremy was selling cannabis, which grew in his garden, to his acquaintances, none of these people were approached to give statements. Curiously, the same applies to Sheila Caffell, a former model and socialite. It appears that only three of her friends gave statements. I suggest that the lack of witnesses who knew either Jeremy or Sheila was brought about deliberately by the police. There are many action reports detailing visits to friends of both Jeremy and Sheila but which resulted in there being no statements taken. One friend of Sheila’s told that she called the police about how dangerous Sheila was after the arrest of Jeremy but her calls were not responded to; she was told the police already had all the information on Sheila they required. [2] Another witness who knew Jeremy was angered that he had been arrested stating that he, “didn’t have the gumption to kill his family”[3] The large amount of statements are from people who knew very little of the Bamber’s at all, so it seems a large scale police operation provided little fruit. The majority of statements being made up of fodder, from witnesses along the lines of: Mrs Bloggs who walked her dog near the farm and said good morning to June sometimes.
It sounds as though regarding the drugs the Police couldn't have framed JB or his friends. Not enough evidence.
CAL 67
Matthew McDonald slept with Suzette Ford. Jeremy really angry
Motive for blaming MM for murders a year later?
I don't find any of the websites claiming to support JB credible, reliable or relevant. Consequently I dismiss most of the contnet. Eg the claim you have highlighted above is clearly wrong since JM, SB and MM provided WS's about JB's involvement with drugs. Not only did they provide WS's but they were prosecution witnesses at trial.
According to JM's WS the police or drug squad called at JB's cottage and looked at the cannabis plants. JB was tipped off by a neighbour and as a result destroyed the plants. If the police/drug squad called to look at the cannabis plants they would seize all the evidence they required for a successful prosecution.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=283.0;attach=1060
When DI Miller interviewed MM when he was suspected of being involved the police removed his cannabis plants from his address and sent them for analysis. He was threatened as follows:
DI Miller: "You realise that it is an offence to cultivate it and supply it and the plants taken from your address yesterday will be sent for analysis which may result in you being prosecuted under the misuse of drugs act".
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1058.0;attach=3236
I will find the WS later re MM and SF's drunken fumble. According to MM he was too drunk to rise to the occasion 8(0(* Was JB seeing SF at the time? Think the relationship was on and off. I doubt JB was much bothered by it either way. He was just a young guy having fun. It seems this group of people connected to Sloppy Joes and Frog and Bean had brief flings with each other. EG MM: CB and SF. JB: CB, SF, JM and LR. LR: MW, CM, JB.
MM - Matthew McDonald
CB - Christine Bacon
SF - Suzette Ford
LR - Liz Rimmington
CM - Charles Marsden
This sort of thing happens every day of every year all over the globe in liberal countries ie group of young people hang out with drink and drugs and have brief flings with members of the group.
If we say JB tried to stitch MM as he wanted revenge for his drunken fumble with SF we could just as well say JM wanted revenge for his one night stand with LR. Or JB wanted revenge on his parents for disapproving of his relationship with SF. I think JB was just a young guy having fun and wasn't that bothered about anything too heavy. If he was that into SF he would not have gone travelling again to NZ.
-
It appears when MM was taken in for questioning he had cannabis on his person:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=4qb1cm76dk3k2eq5ivflrvgd93&action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3274
DI Miller highlighted the fact it was a criminal offence.
When JB was arrested 8th Sep at SC's flat he had some cannabis in a holdall which he immediately handed over to DCI Jones. And yet as far as I can see it was not even mentioned during his police interviews held under caution.
I've often been puzzled about what is still held under pii. (I think I'm right in thinking info is still held under pii?) As I understand it PII usually involves info about witnesses. I'm wondering if any info still held under pii relates to dropped charges over drug related offences against many of the prosecution witnesses? Warrants, issued by a magistrates court, would be required to search properties. This would require supporting evidence and would effectively amount to a paper trail EP would have no control over ie even if destroyed some sort of trail would exist from the magistrates court. Perhaps explains anything still held under pii?
There's firm evidence MM, JM and CB were involved with drugs. This ranges from MM producing, JM supplying and all three using.
There's anecdotal evidence that others associated with JB and JM were at least users. Eg JM states when she received JB's tel calls 6th/7th Aug she had been smoking marijuana. JM and SB were best friends and partners in crime. Did SB also smoke cannabis and supply on campus? In her WS she states she didn't like JB/JM bringing the bags of cannabis, ready for supply, into the house. Was this really the case? Also housemate James Richard was he a user/supplier? JR was also an undergrad at Goldsmiths and attached to the army TA I assume or maybe the army sponsored his degree. SB also said in her WS she didn't like drugs in the house as JR was attached to the army and if the drugs came to light (I assume on the premises?) he would get kicked out. That doesn't sound logical. How can he be responsible for his housemates?
JM's WS's refers to a night out in Burnham after she, JB and BC, returned from Amsterdam on the drug run. She states JB and BC were smoking cannabis but she and CM abstained as they had bad chests *cough*splutter*. JM used cannabis. Was CM the odd man out?
JM talks about a day spent at Notting Hill Carnival.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHLUI4lejno
Good grief certainly not the sort of venue one would expect to find recreational drugs 8)--))
JB and BC on the cannabis as usual. No reason to think JM wasn't also smoking cannabis since by her own admission she was a user. LR was with the group was she the odd one out?
According to JM on 7th Sep she and LR left London and went to Colchester where they called on Malclom Waters to 'reveal JB's involvement'. Malcolm Waters was the owner of Sloppy Joes and Frog and Bean wine bar. He was at one time in a relationship with LR. MW, LR, JB and Michael Deckers, MW's business partner, shared a house in the early 80's. Was MW also a user/supplier?
-
Because police generally concentrate on the bigger picture which in this case was five murders.
By the way, what did he get for the Osea Caravan Park robbery?
JB was charged and bailed over OCP but I don't believe the case was tried.
-
Holly, I can't find any witness lists of those who were either Prosecution witnesses or Defence witnesses have you?
I've found the Defence witnesses in CAL's book mentioned, I'll have another look there for the prosecution witnesses.
Of course JB's group were into soft drugs, I said this ages ago, but I'm not sure what statements were used or who was called at the trial that proves EP framed them. I wouldn't think the police were worried about JB and his drug use at the time, but! I do think if by any chance he had got away with the murders EP would have been onto him as soon as he walked out of Court.
-
Holly, I can't find any witness lists of those who were either Prosecution witnesses or Defence witnesses have you?
I've found the Defence witnesses in CAL's book mentioned, I'll have another look there for the prosecution witnesses.
Of course JB's group were into soft drugs, I said this ages ago, but I'm not sure what statements were used or who was called at the trial that proves EP framed them. I wouldn't think the police were worried about JB and his drug use at the time, but! I do think if by any chance he had got away with the murders EP would have been onto him as soon as he walked out of Court.
I was thinking the other day it would be good to see a list of all those who testified at trial.
We know for sure the following were prosecution witnesses:
Julie Mugford
Susan Battersby
Liz Rimmington
Christine Bacon
Malcolm McDonald - not sure how damning his evidence was for JB?
James Richard
Malcolm Waters - did he give evidence at trial? I'm not sure
Joanne Woad - I think her testimony was restricted to the time of phone calls
Perhaps I'm not making myself clear about what I'm suggesting. All the above appear to be by and large law abiding citizens. They are not hardened criminals familiar with the police and law. I believe they would be easily intimidated by the police/interviews and EP used the drug angle to coerce witnesses into cooperating having convinced them JB was in fact guilty.
Under current law those in possession of cannabis can receive a prison sentence of up to 5 years. In reality this is probably unlikely for a first time offender of previous good character but the threat of any sort of custodial sentence and criminal record would be enough to send many running for the hills.
https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing
If EP were not bothered why remove the plants from MM's and send them for analysis? MM also tell of two friends who were prosecuted.
-
I don't find any of the websites claiming to support JB credible, reliable or relevant. Consequently I dismiss most of the contnet. Eg the claim you have highlighted above is clearly wrong since JM, SB and MM provided WS's about JB's involvement with drugs. Not only did they provide WS's but they were prosecution witnesses at trial.
According to JM's WS the police or drug squad called at JB's cottage and looked at the cannabis plants. JB was tipped off by a neighbour and as a result destroyed the plants. If the police/drug squad called to look at the cannabis plants they would seize all the evidence they required for a successful prosecution.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=283.0;attach=1060
When DI Miller interviewed MM when he was suspected of being involved the police removed his cannabis plants from his address and sent them for analysis. He was threatened as follows:
DI Miller: "You realise that it is an offence to cultivate it and supply it and the plants taken from your address yesterday will be sent for analysis which may result in you being prosecuted under the misuse of drugs act".
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1058.0;attach=3236
I will find the WS later re MM and SF's drunken fumble. According to MM he was too drunk to rise to the occasio
Was MM prosecuted do you know and did you find his statement where it’s stated he and Suzette Ford had a ‘drunken fumble’ ?
-
Opal in reply to your replies in Red above:
I haven't seen any evidence of the police taking notes at GH re the cannabis plants. If they wanted evidence they would take photos and samples. Job done.
MM states he first supplied JB with hemp seeds Jun/Jul '84 at GH. He knew JB through JB's earlier relationship with Suzette Ford. He did visit WHF and met June and NB. I think this was in his capacity as a kitchen fitter. Although the kitchen at WHF doesn't have much of the fitted kitchen about it!
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3254
EP could have told JB to destory the plants but there would surely be some paperwork attached to this which would resurface post murders.
If BC hadn't got a rock solid alibi there's no doubt he would have gone down with JB. It's clear from the DPP they struggle to fit the crime together. Claiming JB shot SC once before battling with NB in the kitchen and then returning to shoot SC a second time. This is at odds with the pathological evidence.
We don't know the extent of the cannabis (and other drugs) production, supply and use. Or EP's drug policy at that time. JM and SB both make reference to the drug squad in their statements.
EP didn't ask JB about his sex life. Perhaps because he had a solicitor present and it would be off limits. No solicitor present when JM and BC were interviewed hence they were free to ask what they wanted.
Yes I'm saying EP used the threat of drug related charges to coerce witnesses into testifying against JB along with selling them the idea HARD that JB was responsible. Many of the witnesses such as JM and SB were young and impressionable. JM was placed in isolation and without any legal representation. They were from middle classish backgrounds not high crime families and therefore unfamiliar with the police/law and its machinations. Lets be clear here I'm not saying they grassed JB up over his grass 8)-))) alone. I think EP brainwashed/groomed those that needed brainwashing/grooming into thinking JB was genuinely responsible.
How long are you claiming your ‘brainwashing/grooming’ theory took Essex police to carry out?
-
When DI Miller interviewed MM he asks whether MM's lover, Christine Bacon, smokes grass. When MM responded rarely DI Miller asks if it was this year:
DIM: Does Christine smoke grass?
MM: No she rarely does. (Lol No she rarely does @)(++(*)
DIM: Was that this year?
MM: Early this year.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=lblfsf90dos80oc5emafd3hi17&action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3258
Just off for CAL to quote about the police search of Christine Bacon's house. I wouldn't mind betting EP found a quantity of cannabis whether it was there or not. 8(0(*. Another witness brainwashed and groomed with the threat of drug related charges used if and when required maybe perhaps &%+((£
*&^^&
-
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=lblfsf90dos80oc5emafd3hi17&action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3258
Who does MM say Bamber tried to ‘chat up’ in the above ?
-
CAL page 297:
"At 6.30am on Monday, 9 September Matthew McDonald's girlfriend Christine Bacon was taken into custody. While officers searched her home, Christine was interviewed by DI Miller at Witham. Divorced and free to pursue a relationship with Matthew, the father of her youngest child, Christine knew surprisingly little about her lover's life. She was unable to say whether he was still married, what work he did or even where he lived.
She was on firmer ground when discussing Jeremy, declaring that there 'wasn't a lot of love lost' between him and his family, and that he had often spoken of his parents favouring his sister 'a great deal financially'. He resented the fact that he was adopted and had talked about ' what he could do if his parents weren't around', which included buying a 'nice fast car, running the business and not [having] all the hassle with his father'. She believed him to be 'callous and aggressive enough' to have killed his family. Matthew hadn't spoken to him since Christmas, and Christine had sent the condolence card herself". %£&)**#
Interesting
-
It appears when MM was taken in for questioning he had cannabis on his person:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=4qb1cm76dk3k2eq5ivflrvgd93&action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3274
DI Miller highlighted the fact it was a criminal offence.
When JB was arrested 8th Sep at SC's flat he had some cannabis in a holdall which he immediately handed over to DCI Jones. And yet as far as I can see it was not even mentioned during his police interviews held under caution.
I've often been puzzled about what is still held under pii. (I think I'm right in thinking info is still held under pii?) As I understand it PII usually involves info about witnesses. I'm wondering if any info still held under pii relates to dropped charges over drug related offences against many of the prosecution witnesses? Warrants, issued by a magistrates court, would be required to search properties. This would require supporting evidence and would effectively amount to a paper trail EP would have no control over ie even if destroyed some sort of trail would exist from the magistrates court. Perhaps explains anything still held under pii?
There's firm evidence MM, JM and CB were involved with drugs. This ranges from MM producing, JM supplying and all three using.
There's anecdotal evidence that others associated with JB and JM were at least users. Eg JM states when she received JB's tel calls 6th/7th Aug she had been smoking marijuana. JM and SB were best friends and partners in crime. Did SB also smoke cannabis and supply on campus? In her WS she states she didn't like JB/JM bringing the bags of cannabis, ready for supply, into the house. Was this really the case? Also housemate James Richard was he a user/supplier? JR was also an undergrad at Goldsmiths and attached to the army TA I assume or maybe the army sponsored his degree. SB also said in her WS she didn't like drugs in the house as JR was attached to the army and if the drugs came to light (I assume on the premises?) he would get kicked out. That doesn't sound logical. How can he be responsible for his housemates?
JM's WS's refers to a night out in Burnham after she, JB and BC, returned from Amsterdam on the drug run. She states JB and BC were smoking cannabis but she and CM abstained as they had bad chests *cough*splutter*. JM used cannabis. Was CM the odd man out?
JM talks about a day spent at Notting Hill Carnival.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHLUI4lejno
Good grief certainly not the sort of venue one would expect to find recreational drugs 8)--))
JB and BC on the cannabis as usual. No reason to think JM wasn't also smoking cannabis since by her own admission she was a user. LR was with the group was she the odd one out?
According to JM on 7th Sep she and LR left London and went to Colchester where they called on Malclom Waters to 'reveal JB's involvement'. Malcolm Waters was the owner of Sloppy Joes and Frog and Bean wine bar. He was at one time in a relationship with LR. MW, LR, JB and Michael Deckers, MW's business partner, shared a house in the early 80's. Was MW also a user/supplier?
Are you referring to Charles Marsden ?
‘Was he the odd man out’ Seems there may be a lot more to CM we don’t yet know about?
-
Charles Marsden sounds very “slippery” from the little I’ve read...
Could be wrong, but the type who liked to stay on the peripherals to keep his nose clean 😌
Off topic, but he must have had his own flat/house...why did he stay at Jeremy’s on occasions — sleeping in the same bed?