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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: sadie on October 12, 2016, 12:32:12 AM
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The strange additions in English to the otherwise completely Portuguese phone records are well worth looking at. I wonder if this is yet another example of records being changed?
... and why?
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The strange additions in English to the otherwise completely Portuguese phone records are well worth looking at. I wonder if this is yet another example of records being changed?
... and why?
Care to give us other examples of said changed records?
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Care to give us other examples of said changed records?
Yep,
You only have to look at the original Processos 809 produced on the spot in Porto where the sighting took place ... with the changed record of Processos 807-808, written in Portimao .
This Portimao Processos undermines the original Porto Processos 809 by changing its content, embellishing it with false facts. These false facts actually take the investigators eye of what happened.
It effectively also says, "take no notice of Processos 809", use this instead" ... BAH, Sloppy or what?
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Links would be handy
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Links would be handy
Easy to look the Processos up in the files, then compare, remembering that Processos 809, written in Porto where the sighting happened, was written previously to Processos 807-808.
Do it thoroughly:
Check on Google Earth, where Campanha Railway station is in Porto, then the name of the railway station that is 1.5 km away from Rua. Andre de Castro, which was the drop off point. The taxi driver witness stated that he picked up at Campanha railway station NOT at the other railway station.
See if you can find several other 'errors' in Processos 807-808.
Several times on here, I have listed the differences between the original Processo (809) and the later Portimao Processos ... and the faults in the later.
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I just asked for a mccannpjfiles link, why is it so hard?
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I just asked for a mccannpjfiles link, why is it so hard?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm
You will need to do the scrolling yourself to pages 807-9.
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm
You will need to do the scrolling yourself to pages 807-9.
So 809 is the original report and 807-8 are the further investigation which was undertaken the same day the report came in. The witness was reminded of the incident by another driver. The original call mentions which station whereas the further investigation mentions distance and time. I wonder how many trips Porto taxis do each day and how many ranks they use?
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm
You will need to do the scrolling yourself to pages 807-9.
Dont be sarky
I didnt realise all file numbers were all solely consecutive through every section of all tomes!
I can scroll
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Dont be sarky
I didnt realise all file numbers were all solely consecutive through every section of all tomes!
I can scroll
8)--))
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Easy to look the Processos up in the files, then compare, remembering that Processos 809, written in Porto where the sighting happened, was written previously to Processos 807-808.
Do it thoroughly:
Check on Google Earth, where Campanha Railway station is in Porto, then the name of the railway station that is 1.5 km away from Rua. Andre de Castro, which was the drop off point. The taxi driver witness stated that he picked up at Campanha railway station NOT at the other railway station.
See if you can find several other 'errors' in Processos 807-808.
Several times on here, I have listed the differences between the original Processo (809) and the later Portimao Processos ... and the faults in the later.
Sorry, but i cant make head or tail of your complaint and accusations.
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So 809 is the original report and 807-8 are the further investigation which was undertaken the same day the report came in. The witness was reminded of the incident by another driver. The original call mentions which station whereas the further investigation mentions distance and time. I wonder how many trips Porto taxis do each day and how many ranks they use?
Apart from using the wrong pick up point, which was Campanha Railway station and NOT Vila Nova de Gaia (VNG) Railway station (a difference in distance of about 5 kilometres) the Portimao PJ changed and added several other things to the original Porto report, which was written on the spot. Some of them are obvious clangers and others are suspect IMO.
In fact, to me, they seem to be taking the investigators eye away from what actually happened
They made what appear to be several significant errors.
See if you can find them
You will find it easier with G.Earth to (1) measure distances
and (2) to view the street scene at Rua Andre de Castro, Vila Nova de Gaia
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Prove it
Your theory sounds barmy
That police were actively perverting the course of justice to stop a child being found Barmy to the extreme and worst
Its actually extremely offensive
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Apart from using the wrong pick up point, which was Campanha Railway station and NOT Vila Nova de Gaia (VNG) Railway station (a difference in distance of about 5 kilometres) the Portimao PJ changed and added several other things to the original Porto report, which was written on the spot. Some of them are obvious clangers and others are suspect IMO.
In fact, to me, they seem to be taking the investigators eye away from what actually happened
They made what appear to be several significant errors.
See if you can find them
You will find it easier with G.Earth to (1) measure distances
and (2) to view the street scene at Rua Andre de Castro, Vila Nova de Gaia
I will repeat, one was the first report, the second was a follow up with investigation. His friend reminded him of picking up a fare 5 days earlier at the station. As we are constantly told memory is fickle especially for unimportant detail so his first report may have assumed one station which he revised in his more detailed chat.
P.S. why wasn't the Whitehaven sighting taken seriously?
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Prove it
Your theory sounds barmy
That police were actively perverting the course of justice to stop a child being found Barmy to the extreme and worst
Its actually extremely offensive
You will see, (my post October 16, 2016, 01:17:57 AM) that I suggested that you use GE to disprove what is said in Processos 807-808.
The reason for this being that I can't post GE images ... so you will have to do the looking yourself
But I can assure you that Campagna Railway station is a good 6 Km away, by taxi, from the drop off point in Rua Andre de Casta. The Portimao Processos 807-808, demeaning Porto processos 809, gets it wrong and is referring to the Railway station in VNG (Vila Nova Gaia). That is 1.5 km away, but it is the wrong station and on the wrong side of the River Douro
Now, I challenge you. Find some more things in Processos 807-808 that are also wrong / very strange. There are a number
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i dont know how to use ge
Your post still doesnt make sense
You will have to do a precis aimed at a 5 year old to make me understand what the problem is
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You will see, (my post October 16, 2016, 01:17:57 AM) that I suggested that you use GE to disprove what is said in Processos 807-808.
The reason for this being that I can't post GE images ... so you will have to do the looking yourself
But I can assure you that Campagna Railway station is a good 6 Km away, by taxi, from the drop off point in Rua Andre de Casta. The Portimao Processos 807-808, demeaning Porto processos 809, gets it wrong and is referring to the Railway station in VNG (Vila Nova Gaia). That is 1.5 km away, but it is the wrong station and on the wrong side of the River Douro
Now, I challenge you. Find some more things in Processos 807-808 that are also wrong / very strange. There are a number
You assume 807-808 come before 809.
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You assume 807-808 come before 809.
It over-rides processos 809, done on the spot in Porto (with full source back up ) and makes a number of errors. They almost seem to be taking the investigators eye of what actually happened.
Can you spot the other errors / strange confusing bits ?
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It over-rides processos 809, done on the spot in Porto (with full source back up ) and makes a number of errors. They almost seem to be taking the investigators eye of what actually happened.
Can you spot the other errors / strange confusing bits ?
Let's see, witness rings police, police take brief statement. Later after initial review, police ring witness back and go through story to extract more information.
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You will see, (my post October 16, 2016, 01:17:57 AM) that I suggested that you use GE to disprove what is said in Processos 807-808.
The reason for this being that I can't post GE images ... so you will have to do the looking yourself
But I can assure you that Campagna Railway station is a good 6 Km away, by taxi, from the drop off point in Rua Andre de Casta. The Portimao Processos 807-808, demeaning Porto processos 809, gets it wrong and is referring to the Railway station in VNG (Vila Nova Gaia). That is 1.5 km away, but it is the wrong station and on the wrong side of the River Douro
Now, I challenge you. Find some more things in Processos 807-808 that are also wrong / very strange. There are a number
I can only find two railway stations in Porto; Campanha and Sao Bento. Both are situated north of the river. Sao Bento is nearer to the drop-off address as the crow flies, but taxis travel by road.
The shortest route by car from Campanha Station to Rua Andre de Castro is 8.1km and takes 10 minutes.
The shortest route by car from Sao Bento Station is 3.9km but takes 15 minutes.
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I can only find two railway stations in Porto; Campanha and Sao Bento. Both are situated north of the river. Sao Bento is nearer to the drop-off address as the crow flies, but taxis travel by road.
The shortest route by car from Campanha Station to Rua Andre de Castro is 8.1km and takes 10 minutes.
The shortest route by car from Sao Bento Station is 3.9km but takes 15 minutes.
Vila Nova de Gaia, south of the Douro, part of Porto.
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If you look at the linked file, page 810, you will find the train stopped at Vila Nova de Gaia before heading on to Campanhã.
The taxi driver is described as a Vila Nova de Gaia driver.
It makes sense that the fare was picked up in VNdG, and dropped off in VNdG, as per 807/8, rather than going past the stop in VNdG to Campanhã, as per 809.
We can speculate as to why Porto PJ thought Campanhã made sense, but Portimão PJ did a lot more diligence on the alleged sighting.
Here is a copy of page 810. You need to look at the part with stop times for each station, not the graphic at the top.
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Is it safe to say sadies wrong assumptions should send this thread to indefinite leave to remain in history?
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Vila Nova de Gaia, south of the Douro, part of Porto. Train station is Granja.
No, you have that completely wrong SIL.
Vila Nova Gaia railway station is in VNG on Largo 5 Outubro, at the bottom of Rua Visconde
Devesas. We walked right past it. VNG is south of the river Douro
If you go on GE street scene you will see a lovely building with taxis outside. On GE sky view you will see multiple railway tracks. It is 1.5 KM almost exactly from the drop point in Rua Andre de Castro. I was unable to find a photo of VNG railway station to post
Campanha Railway station, on the other hand is on the north bank of the River Douro and further east. I measured it as 6 - 7 KM away from the drop off point in Rua A de C.
Also a fine building it has a back and a front entrance to it. They are linked by a wide underground walkway, with steps up from it to the various platforms. There is a big taxi rank at the front but also taxis stand at the back on Rua Pinheiro de Companha.
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No, you have that completely wrong SIL.
Vila Nova Gaia railway station is in VNG on Largo 5 Outubro, at the bottom of Rua Visconde
Devesas. We walked right past it. VNG is south of the river Douro
If you go on GE street scene you will see a lovely building with taxis outside. On GE sky view you will see multiple railway tracks. It is 1.5 KM almost exactly from the drop point in Rua Andre de Castro. I was unable to find a photo of VNG railway station to post
Campanha Railway station, on the other hand is on the north bank of the River Douro and further east. I measured it as 6 - 7 KM away from the drop off point in Rua A de C.
Also a fine building it has a back and a front entrance to it. They are linked by a wide underground walkway, with steps up from it to the various platforms. There is a big taxi rank at the front but also taxis stand at the back on Rua Pinheiro de Companha.
What is it I have got completely wrong?
That there is a train station in VNdG? That the Faro to Porto train stops there before going on to Campanhã? That the train station fits perfectly with the taxi driver's description?
What have I got completely wrong?
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What is it I have got completely wrong?
That there is a train station in VNdG? That the Faro to Porto train stops there before going on to Campanhã? That the train station fits perfectly with the taxi driver's description?
What have I got completely wrong?
Vila Nova de Gaia, south of the Douro, part of Porto.
You have shown pictures of completely the wrong railway station. The VNG railway station is NOT Granja ... and that could cause a myth, if not corrected.
[quote from the webpage above]
Granja Train Station was one of those “Stop the car!” moments, spotted in São Félix da Marinha, along the national road about halfway between Praia de Miramar and Espinho.
... and a good 10 km south of the drop off point in Rua Andre de Castro.
If you go into GE and look where I said, VNG railway station is at the very bottom of Rua Visconde Deveson on Largo 5 Outubro. You will see multiple rail tracks.
Using the GE street scene facility: as you come down Rua V.Deveson, right ahead of you, you will see a lovely (plain) classically styled railway station, That is the main VNG railway station ... and that is 1.5 km from the taxi drop off point.
It is NOT Campanha railway station as was reported in Processos 809 (which is the original processos and written on the spot in Porto). That is over the river Douro some 6 KM drive away from the drop off point. ... and neither is it the historic railway station Granja.
Why Portimao PJ changed the station is a mystery to me.
But then there are several other anomalies... have you found them yet ?
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You have shown pictures of completely the wrong railway station. The VNG railway station is NOT Granja ... and that could cause a myth, if not corrected.
... and a good 10 km south of the drop off point in Rua Andre de Castro.
If you go into GE and look where I said, VNG railway station is at the very bottom of Rua Visconde Deveson on Largo 5 Outubro. You will see multiple rail tracks.
Using the GE street scene facility: as you come down Rua V.Deveson, right ahead of you, you will see a lovely (plain) classically styled railway station, That is the main VNG railway station ... and that is 1.5 km from the taxi drop off point.
It is NOT Campanha railway station as was reported in Processos 809 (which is the original processos and written on the spot in Porto). That is over the river Douro some 6 KM drive away from the drop off point. ... and neither is it the historic railway station Granja.
Why Portimao PJ changed the station is a mystery to me.
But then there are several other anomalies... have you found them yet ?
I agree that Granja is not the Vila Nova de Gaia train station. I have stuck a photo of VNdG train station below. The station is clearly labelled as VNdG, and I've swivelled the view so the taxi rank out front is included.
I still don't see the issue. The train stopped at VNdG. The taxi driver was a VNdG taxi driver. The destination was a mere 1.5km away in VNdG.
So the Porto PJ officer got it wrong and made 'the station' into Campanhã. For all we know, he was not aware the train stopped in VNdG and mistakenly assumed Campanhã. It is a simple error by Porto PJ, not some sort of machination by the Portimão PJ.
If you think there are other anomalies, it is over to you to raise them.
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I agree that Granja is not the Vila Nova de Gaia train station. I have stuck a photo of VNdG train station below. The station is clearly labelled as VNdG, and I've swivelled the view so the taxi rank out front is included.
I still don't see the issue. The train stopped at VNdG. The taxi driver was a VNdG taxi driver. The destination was a mere 1.5km away in VNdG.
So the Porto PJ officer got it wrong and made 'the station' into Campanhã. For all we know, he was not aware the train stopped in VNdG and mistakenly assumed Campanhã. It is a simple error by Porto PJ, not some sort of machination by the Portimão PJ.
If you think there are other anomalies, it is over to you to raise them.
Thank you for the correct image SIL. May I ask you to remove the incorrect photos ... or at the very least ensure that you have made it clear on the specific post that the ganja station is NOT the VNG station referred to. It is misleading.
So you are saying that Porto PJ don't know their stations? They are confused between the main Porto station and the one at Vila Nova Gaia? 8)-))).
Sorry I cant agree that that is likely, especially as in the files somewhere, it goes on about the Police checked the trains coming into Porto ... which would be the main Campanha station.
Now
Can you supply a cite proving that the driver of the taxi was designated to VNG station?
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Thank you for the correct image SIL. May I ask you to remove the incorrect photos ... or at the very least ensure that you have made it clear on the specific post that the ganja station is NOT the VNG station referred to. It is misleading.
So you are saying that Porto PJ don't know their stations? They are confused between the main Porto station and the one at Vila Nova Gaia? 8)-))).
Sorry I cant agree that that is likely, especially as in the files somewhere, it goes on about the Police checked the trains coming into Porto ... which would be the main Campanha station.
Now
Can you supply a cite proving that the driver of the taxi was designated to VNG station?
Now that is the right sort of station... ?>)()<
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Thank you for the correct image SIL. May I ask you to remove the incorrect photos ... or at the very least ensure that you have made it clear on the specific post that the ganja station is NOT the VNG station referred to. It is misleading.
So you are saying that Porto PJ don't know their stations? They are confused between the main Porto station and the one at Vila Nova Gaia? 8)-))).
Sorry I cant agree that that is likely, especially as in the files somewhere, it goes on about the Police checked the trains coming into Porto ... which would be the main Campanha station.
Now
Can you supply a cite proving that the driver of the taxi was designated to VNG station?
OK.
Now can you find number 79 Rua Andre de Castro in Vila Nova Gaia.
Clue, use GE and the street scene if necessary
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Thank you for the correct image SIL. May I ask you to remove the incorrect photos ... or at the very least ensure that you have made it clear on the specific post that the ganja station is NOT the VNG station referred to. It is misleading.
So you are saying that Porto PJ don't know their stations? They are confused between the main Porto station and the one at Vila Nova Gaia? 8)-))).
Sorry I cant agree that that is likely, especially as in the files somewhere, it goes on about the Police checked the trains coming into Porto ... which would be the main Campanha station.
Now
Can you supply a cite proving that the driver of the taxi was designated to VNG station?
I have already adjusted the thread to take out all references to Granja, other than keeping those bits that make it clear that the Vila Nova de Gaia station is not Granja.
The Porto PJ got it right that the train terminated at Campanhã.
There is nothing in the pages quoted that directly attribute the Campanhã deduction to the taxi driver. There is evidence in the files that he picked the passengers up at VNdG and drove them the short distance to a drop off within VNdG. The train schedule shows the train stopped at VNdG.
What were the Portimão PJ supposed to do? Ignore the evidence, ignore the testimony, and say 'well Porto PJ said Campanhã, so we'll say Campanhã'? That's not how evidence works.
The reference to the driver being a VNdG driver is in the Portimão PJ report. But it is of no import.
The train stopped at VNdG. The driver described the short journey from VNdG train station to the drop off nearby in VNdG.
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I have already adjusted the thread to take out all references to Granja, other than keeping those bits that make it clear that the Vila Nova de Gaia station is not Granja.
The Porto PJ got it right that the train terminated at Campanhã.
There is nothing in the pages quoted that directly attribute the Campanhã deduction to the taxi driver. There is evidence in the files that he picked the passengers up at VNdG and drove them the short distance to a drop off within VNdG. The train schedule shows the train stopped at VNdG.
What were the Portimão PJ supposed to do? Ignore the evidence, ignore the testimony, and say 'well Porto PJ said Campanhã, so we'll say Campanhã'? That's not how evidence works.
The reference to the driver being a VNdG driver is in the Portimão PJ report. But it is of no import.
The train stopped at VNdG. The driver described the short journey from VNdG train station to the drop off nearby in VNdG.
You could even hazard a guess that the driver said "picked up at the station" and the police filled in the gap.
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I have already adjusted the thread to take out all references to Granja, other than keeping those bits that make it clear that the Vila Nova de Gaia station is not Granja.
The Porto PJ got it right that the train terminated at Campanhã.
There is nothing in the pages quoted that directly attribute the Campanhã deduction to the taxi driver. There is evidence in the files that he picked the passengers up at VNdG and drove them the short distance to a drop off within VNdG. The train schedule shows the train stopped at VNdG.
What were the Portimão PJ supposed to do? Ignore the evidence, ignore the testimony, and say 'well Porto PJ said Campanhã, so we'll say Campanhã'? That's not how evidence works.
The reference to the driver being a VNdG driver is in the Portimão PJ report. But it is of no import.
The train stopped at VNdG. The driver described the short journey from VNdG train station to the drop off nearby in VNdG.
THe original and knowledgeable Processos 809 written in Porto states quite clearly that the taxi driver picked the man carrying the little blond girl at Campanha Railway station, Porto.
You, SIL, stated that the taxi drivers normal station was VNG. Please supply a cite for that assertion.
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THe original and knowledgeable Processos 809 written in Porto states quite clearly that the taxi driver picked the man carrying the little blond girl at Campanha Railway station, Porto.
You, SIL, stated that the taxi drivers normal station was VNG. Please supply a cite for that assertion.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P3/03_VOLUME_IIIa_Page_807.jpg
"O Taxista de V. N. de Gaia Alberto Almeida ..." The taxi driver of/from VN de G Alberto Almeida ...
I have given you the file location already.
'original and knowledgeable'? The Porto report was dashed off to Portimão to alert the PJ there, so they could do the digging. Portimão PJ established it was VNdG, not Campanhã.
We appear to be flogging a dead horse.
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P3/03_VOLUME_IIIa_Page_807.jpg
"O Taxista de V. N. de Gaia Alberto Almeida ..." The taxi driver of/from VN de G Alberto Almeida ...
I have given you the file location already.
'original and knowledgeable'? The Porto report was dashed off to Portimão to alert the PJ there, so they could do the digging. Portimão PJ established it was VNdG, not Campanhã.
We appear to be flogging a dead horse.
I worked in Darlaston and Birmingham, but I didn't live in either place.
Eastern Vila nova de Gaia is immediately across the river Douro to the Campanha Railway Station and some eastern parts and South eastern parts of VNG are closer, both ease of travelling and distance wise, to Campanha R Station than to Vila Nova de Gaia R Station.
Quite a chunk of the eastern part of VNG including such places as Avintes, Oliveira do Douro and Andorinho have easy access to the Autoroute IP 1 (E 1) and would whizz to work far faster at Campanha than to VNG railway stations. These villages are part of VNG and are widely spaced with many villages in between.
A taxi driver living in that part of VNG would prefer to operate from Campanha railway station IMO.
Did you take up the challenge and find number 79 Rua Andre de Costa in Vila Nova De Gaia?
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I worked in Darlaston and Birmingham, but I didn't live in either place.
Eastern Vila nova de Gaia is immediately across the river Douro to the Campanha Railway Station and some eastern parts and South eastern parts of VNG are closer, both ease of travelling and distance wise, to Campanha R Station than to Vila Nova de Gaia R Station.
Quite a chunk of the eastern part of VNG including such places as Avintes, Oliveira do Douro and Andorinho have easy access to the Autoroute IP 1 (E 1) and would whizz to work far faster at Campanha than to VNG railway stations. These villages are part of VNG and are widely spaced with many villages in between.
A taxi driver living in that part of VNG would prefer to operate from Campanha railway station IMO.
Did you take up the challenge and find number 79 Rua Andre de Costa in Vila Nova De Gaia?
The journey described is from VNdG to 79 Rua André de Costa. Not from Campanhã to 79. And yes, I did look it up. Over to you.
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The journey described is from VNdG to 79 Rua André de Costa. Not from Campanhã to 79. And yes, I did look it up. Over to you.
Where is the journey described please?
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Where is the journey described please?
In the pages you referenced. Please re-read them. 807. 808. 809.
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OK.
Now can you find number 79 Rua Andre de Castro in Vila Nova Gaia.
Clue, use GE and the street scene if necessary
I think it's in the pile of building rubble, as shown in 2009 G. Images
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The journey described is from VNdG to 79 Rua André de Costa. Not from Campanhã to 79. And yes, I did look it up. Over to you.
There is NO journey described in Processos 809, the original processos.
In Processos 807-808 which has a number of mistakes in it (disinformation?). It says:
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm#p3p807to808
03- Processos Vol III pages 807 to 808
The taxi driver in question was contacted by another taxi driver, an older man already retired who had been looking for him from the date of the service until the 09th when he managed to contact him, reminding him about a service trip that he made on 04-05-2007 at about 12.40 in which an individual carrying a blonde girl asked him to take them to Rua Andrade Castro no. 79, Santa Marinha, Vila Nova da Gaia.
No journey described there either SIL
I have already adjusted the thread to take out all references to Granja, other than keeping those bits that make it clear that the Vila Nova de Gaia station is not Granja.
The Porto PJ got it right that the train terminated at Campanhã.
There is nothing in the pages quoted that directly attribute the Campanhã deduction to the taxi driver. There is evidence in the files that he picked the passengers up at VNdG and drove them the short distance to a drop off within VNdG. The train schedule shows the train stopped at VNdG.
What were the Portimão PJ supposed to do? Ignore the evidence, ignore the testimony, and say 'well Porto PJ said Campanhã, so we'll say Campanhã'? That's not how evidence works.
The reference to the driver being a VNdG driver is in the Portimão PJ report. But it is of no import.
The train stopped at VNdG. The driver described the short journey from VNdG train station to the drop off nearby in VNdG.
No description there proving that was the route taken ! How come you thought there was in that post ?
I see no description in either Processos that confirmed that the man was picked up at VNG railway station.
And I see no evidence that he picked the passengers up at VNdG and drove them the short distance to a drop off within VNdG ... apart from the spiel in Processos 807-808, written in Portimao police station.
Cant think why you are pushing this SIL
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ETA: You also say,
Reply #24 on: October 23, 2016, 06:25:06 AM »What is it I have got completely wrong?
That there is a train station in VNdG? That the Faro to Porto train stops there before going on to Campanhã? That the train station fits perfectly with the taxi driver's description?
What have I got completely wrong?
There is NO taxi drivers description of the train station that I can find. Cite please
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I think it's in the pile of building rubble, as shown in 2009 G. Images
Ah, at last
Someone awake and willing to check
Well done misty. I knew you would be the first to crack it. 8((()*/
Have you checked GE image from 2007? It is a bit tricky to catch it, but it is there.
In case you are not au fait with GE , use the clock on the top band of GE and then the slider to find the historical images..
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Now another little strange thing about Processos 807-808
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm#p3p807to808
03- Processos Vol III pages 807 to 808
The taxi driver in question was contacted by another taxi driver, an older man already retired who had been looking for him from the date of the service until the 09th when he managed to contact him, reminding him about a service trip that he made on 04-05-2007 at about 12.40 in which an individual carrying a blonde girl asked him to take them to Rua Andrade Castro no. 79, Santa Marinha, Vila Nova da Gaia.
The address has changed from Rua Andre de Castro to Rua Andrade Castro. I have print outs of the original Processos 807-808 saying Rua Andre de Castro.
I have print outs in Portuguese from the original files and in English
Try googling Rua Andrade Castro, Nova Vila de Gaia, if you dont believe me. NO such place.
Why has it changed? To confuse the investigator? or what? Any ideas SIL ?
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I think it's in the pile of building rubble, as shown in 2009 G. Images
Actually misty I think you have the wrong side of the alleyway. The odd numbers are on the north side, not the south side of the alleyway .. and we are looking for number 79
Have you checked what was being built there in 2007 ? And what other buildings there are on the same piece of land? Could any of them be of interest in a missing child case [possibly involving paedophilia?]
I will give you a clue, the Pope visited after the building was completed.
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Now another little strange thing about Processos 807-808
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm#p3p807to808
03- Processos Vol III pages 807 to 808
The taxi driver in question was contacted by another taxi driver, an older man already retired who had been looking for him from the date of the service until the 09th when he managed to contact him, reminding him about a service trip that he made on 04-05-2007 at about 12.40 in which an individual carrying a blonde girl asked him to take them to Rua Andrade Castro no. 79, Santa Marinha, Vila Nova da Gaia.
The address has changed from Rua Andre de Castro to Rua Andrade Castro. I have print outs of the original Processos 807-808 saying Rua Andre de Castro.
I have print outs in Portuguese from the original files and in English
Try googling Rua Andrade Castro, Nova Vila de Gaia, if you dont believe me. NO such place.
Why has it changed? To confuse the investigator? or what? Any ideas SIL ?
Interesting that these slight discrepancies in an initial report and a follow up statement are proof of nefarious activities. Where does that leave the other statements in the case?
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Interesting that these slight discrepancies in an initial report and a follow up statement are proof of nefarious activities. Where does that leave the other statements in the case?
Not only that Slarti, but the change between the original processos 807-808 and what we have today. There is No such place as Rua Andrade Costa, VNG as Processos 807-808 currently claims.
What IS going on ? Is something important being hidden ?
I have also got paper records of a question mark being added to the processos. One processos with ... and one processos without.
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Now another little strange thing about Processos 807-808
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm#p3p807to808
03- Processos Vol III pages 807 to 808
The taxi driver in question was contacted by another taxi driver, an older man already retired who had been looking for him from the date of the service until the 09th when he managed to contact him, reminding him about a service trip that he made on 04-05-2007 at about 12.40 in which an individual carrying a blonde girl asked him to take them to Rua Andrade Castro no. 79, Santa Marinha, Vila Nova da Gaia.
The address has changed from Rua Andre de Castro to Rua Andrade Castro. I have print outs of the original Processos 807-808 saying Rua Andre de Castro.
I have print outs in Portuguese from the original files and in English
Try googling Rua Andrade Castro, Nova Vila de Gaia, if you dont believe me. NO such place.
Why has it changed? To confuse the investigator? or what? Any ideas SIL ?
There are several other strange things about Processos 807-808, yet to come
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Actually misty I think you have the wrong side of the alleyway. The odd numbers are on the north side, not the south side of the alleyway .. and we are looking for number 79
Have you checked what was being built there in 2007 ? And what other buildings there are on the same piece of land? Could any of them be of interest in a missing child case [possibly involving paedophilia?]
I will give you a clue, the Pope visited after the building was completed.
The big white building was there in 2005. I'm looking at the block of flats behind the houses at the junction as there are around 100 street numbers unaccounted for. Google Earth seems to indicate that they are part of Rua de Andre de Castro.
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The big white building was there in 2005. I'm looking at the block of flats behind the houses at the junction as there are around 100 street numbers unaccounted for. Google Earth seems to indicate that they are part of Rua de Andre de Castro.
Yep, the western end of Rua Andre de Costa is a blind alleyway. By blind I mean that from neither end can you see the middle bit because it has high walls and a curve. It is fairly narrow and quite rough to walk along. Too narrow for a Taxi
From wall shadows I think the middle bit of the northern wall was broken down in places... probably the entrances to the houses that used to be there at one time, well before the building work began.
If you look at 2006 you will see the structure being built and recent dates show the finished building in its entirety. A very beautiful modern building.
1) What is it?
2) What is the long grey topped building on the eastern side of Rua Tenente Valadim
(Spelling?) but to the west of the large white building being built?
3) ...and what is the red roofed building to the north of the large plot ?
Any ideas? Google Earth street scene will help.
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There are several other strange things about Processos 807-808, yet to come
Cant wait
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Now another little strange thing about Processos 807-808
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm#p3p807to808
03- Processos Vol III pages 807 to 808
The taxi driver in question was contacted by another taxi driver, an older man already retired who had been looking for him from the date of the service until the 09th when he managed to contact him, reminding him about a service trip that he made on 04-05-2007 at about 12.40 in which an individual carrying a blonde girl asked him to take them to Rua Andrade Castro no. 79, Santa Marinha, Vila Nova da Gaia.
The address has changed from Rua Andre de Castro to Rua Andrade Castro. I have print outs of the original Processos 807-808 saying Rua Andre de Castro.
I have print outs in Portuguese from the original files and in English
Try googling Rua Andrade Castro, Nova Vila de Gaia, if you dont believe me. NO such place.
Why has it changed? To confuse the investigator? or what? Any ideas SIL ?
Are you seriously offering this as proof of something significant?
Follow your own link. The English translation, by Ines, says Rua Andrade Castro. Whilst the Portimão police put Rua André de Castro.
It is a minor error in translation, made by Ines. There is nothing of significance in this.
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Yep, the western end of Rua Andre de Costa is a blind alleyway. By blind I mean that from neither end can you see the middle bit because it has high walls and a curve. It is fairly narrow and quite rough to walk along. Too narrow for a Taxi
From wall shadows I think the middle bit of the northern wall was broken down in places... probably the entrances to the houses that used to be there at one time, well before the building work began.
If you look at 2006 you will see the structure being built and recent dates show the finished building in its entirety. A very beautiful modern building.
1) What is it?
2) What is the long grey topped building on the eastern side of Rua Tenente Valadim
(Spelling?) but to the west of the large white building being built?
3) ...and what is the red roofed building to the north of the large plot ?
Any ideas? Google Earth street scene will help.
You appear to be referring to Paróquia do Senhor da Vera Cruz, which is located at Rua Tenente Valadim 99. Both the current entrance and the entrance used to build the church are on Tenente Valadim.
So far, all that has been achieved is that Google Earth and Google Streetview cannot be used to reliably locate Rua André da Costa 79.
Since both the Porto PJ and the Portimão PJ put it as Rua André da Costa 79, and the VNdG taxi driver should know what he is talking about, it looks like a glitch in Google to me.
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Are you seriously offering this as proof of something significant?
Follow your own link. The English translation, by Ines, says Rua Andrade Castro. Whilst the Portimão police put Rua André de Castro.
It is a minor error in translation, made by Ines. There is nothing of significance in this.
I agree.
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There is NO journey described in Processos 809, the original processos.
In Processos 807-808 which has a number of mistakes in it (disinformation?). It says:
http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm#p3p807to808
03- Processos Vol III pages 807 to 808
The taxi driver in question was contacted by another taxi driver, an older man already retired who had been looking for him from the date of the service until the 09th when he managed to contact him, reminding him about a service trip that he made on 04-05-2007 at about 12.40 in which an individual carrying a blonde girl asked him to take them to Rua Andrade Castro no. 79, Santa Marinha, Vila Nova da Gaia.
No journey described there either SIL
No description there proving that was the route taken ! How come you thought there was in that post ?
I see no description in either Processos that confirmed that the man was picked up at VNG railway station.
And I see no evidence that he picked the passengers up at VNdG and drove them the short distance to a drop off within VNdG ... apart from the spiel in Processos 807-808, written in Portimao police station.
Cant think why you are pushing this SIL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ETA: You also say,
Reply #24 on: October 23, 2016, 06:25:06 AM »
There is NO taxi drivers description of the train station that I can find. Cite please
The line of the Portimão report immediately under the chunk you posted is "The trip he made was approximately 1.5 km and would have taken about 5 minutes."
That is a description of the journey. It is not describing anything other than the journey. It is simple. It is clear.
It is consistent with VNdG. It is not consistent with Campanhã, which would involve a longer distance and a longer journey time.
And I did not mean the taxi driver gave a description of the station. I meant the taxi driver gave a description of the journey, a description that fits VNdG but does not fit Campanhã.
What I am not getting is why you are insisting on ruling out VNdG in favour of Campañhã? You appear to be alleging that a Portimão PJ Inspector wilfully manipulated the taxi driver's evidence, which is a serious allegation. You have not provided any evidence he did, nor his motivation in doing so.
And you haven't provided any reason to support why the man would stay on the train at VNdG, then continue for a further 5 minutes or so, only to need a longer and costlier taxi ride from Campanhã to Rua André de Castro.
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You appear to be referring to Paróquia do Senhor da Vera Cruz, which is located at Rua Tenente Valadim 99. Both the current entrance and the entrance used to build the church are on Tenente Valadim.
So far, all that has been achieved is that Google Earth and Google Streetview cannot be used to reliably locate Rua André da Costa 79.
Since both the Porto PJ and the Portimão PJ put it as Rua André da Costa 79, and the VNdG taxi driver should know what he is talking about, it looks like a glitch in Google to me.
No, it wasn't a glitch SIL.
Please dont forget that I have HARD COPIES of 807-808 taken several years ago, both the original in Portuguese and the English translation
In both it says that the taxi went to 79 Rua Andre de Costa. No mention of Rua Andade Cost (until after I raised the subject a couple of times on forums)
WHY has it been changed ? Changed to a road that DOES NOT exist ... There has to be a reason.
Furthermore WHO added a ? (question mark) to the number 79 on another copy I have ?
There has to be a reason. Someone is covering something up IMO
Changing the address to a non existent one can only be designed to put the searcher / investigator off the scent.
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You appear to be referring to Paróquia do Senhor da Vera Cruz, which is located at Rua Tenente Valadim 99. Both the current entrance and the entrance used to build the church are on Tenente Valadim.
So far, all that has been achieved is that Google Earth and Google Streetview cannot be used to reliably locate Rua André da Costa 79.
Since both the Porto PJ and the Portimão PJ put it as Rua André da Costa 79, and the VNdG taxi driver should know what he is talking about, it looks like a glitch in Google to me.
It was not known as that until recently. Why has it been changed ?
As the GE image is no longer recognisable as to the place it was in 2010, I can no longer ask you to research everything.
A great job of blanking out and altering the image has taken place on GE street scene.
The huge Creche on the same plot of land (which previously, prior to demolition, included number 79) is no longer shown on Google Earth Street scene. This fine creche proudly announced itself to the world as "Colegio Creche Nossa Senhora da Bonanca" and it stretched 77 metres on the Rua Tenente de Valadin side of the plot of land.
The massive colourful advertisement painted on the end of the building is gone
Everything that was pristine sparkling white is now filthy .... in 6 years in a non industrial town, with clean winds that have come all the way across the atlantic? The brand new R.C. Church that I knew of as "Igreja Paroquial do Candal" was like icing sugar, it was so white. Now it is filthy. This church was built right where number 79 used to be before it was knocked down imo ... using logic.
Also on the same piece of land, but at its northern end is a RC school.
So if the man carrying the little sleeping girl was "going to number 79" it appears he was going to a part built church, a school or a creche ... and going there along a blind alleyway thru which vehicles could not pass. So hidden in "plain sight"
We are all very aware that relative to the general population, a disproportionate number of priests, teachers and creche workers are paedos.
I always look carefully at RC Churches (it seems that RC are worse than most, maybe because of the RC policy of moving priests on,( sometimes promoting them out of trouble ), if they have sinned ... and reportedly they sin again. I also look at creches, childrens homes, boarding schools and establishments for the profundly deaf and dumb and for abandoned children etc.
Let me make it clear, most of these are fine places and I herald them for the work they do ... but a significant number have historically been proven to be dens of abuse and paedophilia.
Now that all these changes have happened, along with the peculiar illegal changes to 807-808, will it help convince SY and the Porto PJ that something odd was going on here ?.
Well done to the guys who made these changes ... they've dropped themselves in it again !
SY got the old images, not the fake images.
[Edited to clarify]
@)(++(*
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No, it wasn't a glitch SIL.
Please dont forget that I have HARD COPIES of 807-808 taken several years ago, both the original in Portuguese and the English translation
In both it says that the taxi went to 79 Rua Andre de Costa. No mention of Rua Andade Cost (until after I raised the subject a couple of times on forums)
WHY has it been changed ? Changed to a road that DOES NOT exist ... There has to be a reason.
Furthermore WHO added a ? (question mark) to the number 79 on another copy I have ?
There has to be a reason. Someone is covering something up IMO
Changing the address to a non existent one can only be designed to put the searcher / investigator off the scent.
Whose translation did you send?
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No, it wasn't a glitch SIL.
Please dont forget that I have HARD COPIES of 807-808 taken several years ago, both the original in Portuguese and the English translation
In both it says that the taxi went to 79 Rua Andre de Costa. No mention of Rua Andade Cost (until after I raised the subject a couple of times on forums)
WHY has it been changed ? Changed to a road that DOES NOT exist ... There has to be a reason.
Furthermore WHO added a ? (question mark) to the number 79 on another copy I have ?
There has to be a reason. Someone is covering something up IMO
Changing the address to a non existent one can only be designed to put the searcher / investigator off the scent.
Sadie, do yourself a favour and READ THE LINK YOU HAVE PROVIDED. Pamalam has the originals in Portuguese. The two statements in Portuguese BOTH read Rua André da Costa, as EVERYONE can see, so there is no issue with them.
The English translation by Ines reads Rua Andrade Costa. That is a simple mistranslation.
There are several simple mistranslations in the files. That's all they are. Minor errors that in subsequent years get blown out of proportion as people get picky about the fact the English versions do not match the Portuguese versions 100%.
A simple mistranslation does not equal a conspiracy, especially as Pamalam has put the Portuguese originals up so they can be checked.
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Sadie, do yourself a favour and READ THE LINK YOU HAVE PROVIDED. Pamalam has the originals in Portuguese. The two statements in Portuguese BOTH read Rua André da Costa, as EVERYONE can see, so there is no issue with them.
The English translation by Ines reads Rua Andrade Costa. That is a simple mistranslation.
There are several simple mistranslations in the files. That's all they are. Minor errors that in subsequent years get blown out of proportion as people get picky about the fact the English versions do not match the Portuguese versions 100%.
A simple mistranslation does not equal a conspiracy, especially as Pamalam has put the Portuguese originals up so they can be checked.
It's the selective reliance on or rejection of statement errors/mistranslations that is hypocritical.
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Sadie, do yourself a favour and READ THE LINK YOU HAVE PROVIDED. Pamalam has the originals in Portuguese. The two statements in Portuguese BOTH read Rua André da Costa, as EVERYONE can see, so there is no issue with them.
The English translation by Ines reads Rua Andrade Costa. That is a simple mistranslation.
There are several simple mistranslations in the files. That's all they are. Minor errors that in subsequent years get blown out of proportion as people get picky about the fact the English versions do not match the Portuguese versions 100%.
A simple mistranslation does not equal a conspiracy, especially as Pamalam has put the Portuguese originals up so they can be checked.
I agree the Portuguese original says Rua Andre de Costa.
When Ines first translated 807-808 she got the name of the drop off road correct. I have an early copy by Ines that does NOT say Rua Andrade Costa. It correctly says Rua Andre de Costa and that agrees with the Portuguese original.
Who has changed it to a road that doesn't exist called Rua Andrade Casta? And why?
To prevent people going there and looking?
Obviously something(s) very interesting there regarding the abduction of Madeleine
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I agree the Portuguese original says Rua Andre de Costa.
When Ines first translated 807-808 she got the name of the drop off road correct. I have an early copy by Ines that does NOT say Rua Andrade Costa. It correctly says Rua Andre de Costa and that agrees with the Portuguese original.
Who has changed it to a road that doesn't exist called Rua Andrade Casta? And why?
To prevent people going there and looking?
Obviously something(s) very interesting there regarding the abduction of Madeleine
Then kindly post this early correct translation by Ines and we're done. Somebody is fiddling with the records.
Or don't post this early translation by Ines and we are done. Nobody is fiddling with the records.
Over to you.
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Then kindly post this early correct translation by Ines and we're done. Somebody is fiddling with the records.
Or don't post this early translation by Ines and we are done. Nobody is fiddling with the records.
Over to you.
I am unable to do that because I dont have the technical ability, but if you are willing to privately give me your address, I will post photocopies to you. I promise that I will not reveal your address to anyone.
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The line of the Portimão report immediately under the chunk you posted is "The trip he made was approximately 1.5 km and would have taken about 5 minutes."
That is a description of the journey. It is not describing anything other than the journey. It is simple. It is clear.
It is consistent with VNdG. It is not consistent with Campanhã, which would involve a longer distance and a longer journey time.
And I did not mean the taxi driver gave a description of the station. I meant the taxi driver gave a description of the journey, a description that fits VNdG but does not fit Campanhã.
What I am not getting is why you are insisting on ruling out VNdG in favour of Campañhã? You appear to be alleging that a Portimão PJ Inspector wilfully manipulated the taxi driver's evidence, which is a serious allegation. You have not provided any evidence he did, nor his motivation in doing so.
And you haven't provided any reason to support why the man would stay on the train at VNdG, then continue for a further 5 minutes or so, only to need a longer and costlier taxi ride from Campanhã to Rua André de Castro.
I. I would not describe that as a description of the journey ... just a distance and a time.
But look at the time:
It does not say that the journey "took" about 5 minutes, it says it "would have taken" about 5 minutes. From the way it is worded we can see that those words have not come from the taxi drivers mouth. He would say it TOOK about 5 minutes.
So seems someone has given false info. Maybe at the Porto end, maybe at the Portimao end. We cant tell.
I do not believe that Madeleine went up to Porto by train ... far too public and dangerous for who ever was taking her. I believe that she went up via a white van per the Carlos Moreira sighting
Carlos Moriera sighting 8am on the 4th May 2007
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/37may10/SUN_25_05_10.htm
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-portuguese-man-saw-223908
This was on the N10, old main route north. We actually visited the roadside snack bar.
As we left I took a quick snap of it, but had inadvertently left my camera on video. I have a mini video of a very angry woman screaming at me in some language that no-one can identify. I wonder why she wsa so enraged?
Roughly half way up to Porto from PdL. at Samora Correia (east of Lisboa.)
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Well we can also look forward to the pj files when the sy pj investigation is closed, it will be interesting
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Talking about taking files and translations at face value, I came across an interesting exclusion recently when looking at the Marcos Correia report. For some reason his reference to Leonor allegedly falling down some stairs was left out by the translator who produced the English version for the Pamalam site. Had I not been looking at this specific translation I would not have picked it up which raises the question as to how many other translation errors are out there?
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Can we take the file records at face value?
No, we can't.
I've used the example elsewhere and will repeat it here, because it is apposite to this thread:
The 'official' record (of the inspection in the gym)
1. Between 23h20 and 23h30 the two dogs were allowed to reconoitre the entire area to guarantee that there were no existing odours - and none were detected by them.
2. Between 23h30 and 23h40 items from the box labelled 'common room' were inspected by the blood dog without result.
- At 23h41 the cadaver dog began its inspection and 'marked' some clothing on the edge of the area. The inspection ended at 23h52 with the clothing having been collected for later direct examination and photographic report.
Either the 'prior' reconnoitre was carried out after the clothes were laid out, in which case the 'prior' reconnoitre was a pile of crock.
Or the record itself is a pile of crock.
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Talking about taking files and translations at face value, I came across an interesting exclusion recently when looking at the Marcos Correia report. For some reason his reference to Leonor allegedly falling down some stairs was left out by the translator who produced the English version for the Pamalam site. Had I not been looking at this specific translation I would not have picked it up which raises the question as to how many other translation errors are out there?
I am so glad that your side is noticing errors too. There were a number of errors in Processos 807-808 it appears ... all seemingly pointing the searcher away from what actually happened up in Porto and district. Whilst this Processos was written in Portimao, did the suspect info come from someone at Porto PJ station or did Portimao PJ station make it up ... or ...?
THese errors were not language translation errors, they gave different facts. Why?
In the report you mention, Angelo, why did the translator (or someone) remove the part about Leonor allegedly falling down the stairs? Any ideas ?
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I am so glad that your side is noticing errors too. There were a number of errors in Processos 807-808 it appears ... all seemingly pointing the searcher away from what actually happened up in Porto and district. Whilst this Processos was written in Portimao, did the suspect info come from someone at Porto PJ station or did Portimao PJ station make it up ... or ...?
THese errors were not language translation errors, they gave different facts. Why?
In the report you mention, Angelo, why did the translator (or someone) remove the part about Leonor allegedly falling down the stairs? Any ideas ?
I thought we had done this to death. A PJ Inspector in Porto wrote a prelim report, and passed it to Portimão PJ. Portimão PJ did a detailed follow up and came up with somewhat different information.
If there was anything suspect in this, why stick both reports in the PJ Files? Why not lose one, or alter one so both are consistent.
You are looking for spooks where none exists.
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Can we take the file records at face value?
No, we can't.
I've used the example elsewhere and will repeat it here, because it is apposite to this thread:
The 'official' record (of the inspection in the gym)
Either the 'prior' reconnoitre was carried out after the clothes were laid out, in which case the 'prior' reconnoitre was a pile of crock.
Or the record itself is a pile of crock.
You seem to be proving yourself wrong again?
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Can we take the file records at face value?
No, we can't.
I've used the example elsewhere and will repeat it here, because it is apposite to this thread:
The 'official' record (of the inspection in the gym)
Either the 'prior' reconnoitre was carried out after the clothes were laid out, in which case the 'prior' reconnoitre was a pile of crock.
Or the record itself is a pile of crock.
Silly example
It doesnt take long to lay out clothes
Or very long for dogs to scan them
Minutes is all we are talking about
And you post this in a dodgy document thread?
No documents have been proven to be dodgy or altered as you and some of your cohorts continually complain and promote
Just typos or mistakes and misunderstandings
LP had enough of them themselves
It happens once in a whle in thousands of pages you know
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My aplogies SIL The irritating virus that sometimes hits my computer has got at your quote as well as my post . Have amended this but for some reason both my images are half missing, but I think you can get an idea of what they look like..
I thought we had done this to death. A PJ Inspector in Porto wrote a prelim report, and passed it to Portimao PJ. Portimao PJ did a detailed follow up and came up with somewhat different information.
If there was anything suspect in this, why stick both reports in the PJ Files? Why not lose one, or alter one so both are consistent.
You are looking for spooks where none exists.
You think !
I think differently.
Folllowing processos 809 and 742-744, I have found at three stages proximity to three childrens homes/ creches with oddities.
1) proximity to a childrens home/creche with hidden footpath from it. This was just a hundred metres away from the back of Campanha Railway station in Rua Pinheiro de Campanha. From the Home to Campanha Railway Station rear taxi-stands was a deeply sunken walled pavement. Anyone walking between these places and walking this path would have been largely hidden
The Childrens Centre is called: Centro Juvenil de Campanha - Seminario dos Meninos Desamparados ... A seminary, so also a training place for priests and a home for helpless children and a large nursery
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5Y6dzZoeAnk/VQsVFSuGhSI/AAAAAAAATvM/h5bpbbanKrI/s1600/SEMIN%C3%81RIO%2BDOS%2BMENINOS%2BDESAMPARADOS%2BNA%2BQUINTA%2BDO%2BPINHEIRO%2B-%2BPADRE%2BJOS%C3%89%2BOLIVEIRA%2B-%2B1814.jpeg)
Again my apologies. Only half the Seminario shows ... dont know hiow to change that but you can see it in full if you click on the interesting blog below
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=SERP&br=ro&mkt=en-GB&dl=en&lp=PT_EN&a=http%3a%2f%2fportoarc.blogspot.com%2f2015%2f03%2fcolegios-e-recolhimentos-ix.html
2) The likely drop off point from the taxi and nearest to where number 79 Rua Andres de Costa historically HAD stood, was at the end of a high walled alleyway, also part of Rua Andre de Costa. This drop off point was at the cross road between Rua Andre de Costa and Rua Vera Crus
The alleyway was curved so the part in the middle was out of sight from EITHER end. In the blind part the wall was down.
Easy peasy to get over on to the large triangular plot of land that housed the building of the new RC church, a giant Creche and a RC school.
I am sorry but I cannot supply images of this creche, which according to G.E. street scene is no longer a creche. It was a very fine looking large creche in 2010, now it looks down at heel and the big proud name sign has been taken down, along with the massive colourful poster advertisement for it that was painted on its end wall. I have photos of how it and the new pristine white painted church looked then.
It was called "Colegio Creche Nossa Senhora de Bonanca, Centro Paroquial, Candalâ" .... The church was called "Igreja Paroquial do Candalâ" Perhaps it also had the name that SIL gave it ? Dunno
I cant understand how the Church and the Creche have got so terribly dirty. The houses opposite haven't noticeably got any dirtier than in 2010. I have photos of those too.
Quite a co-incidence that there were creches / schools at either end of the taxi journey. As I said before, because of historical abuse of children by people attached to creches, churches and childrens homes as well as occasionally schools, I always look at these places closely ... and at priests
3) Then if we look at Processos 742-744
Three days later, a man was watched with a little girl on the beach at Miramar VNG. The witness was sure the girl was Madeleine. He had been reading all about it and had seen many photos of Madeleine.
This was at Miramar beach near Senhor de Pedera chapel on the beach, (photo below) again in the Vila Nova Gaia area of Porto greater district. https://www.flickr.com/photos/anselmo_sousa/6927092654/
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/anselmo_sousa/6927092654/)
(http://media.istockphoto.com/photos/lord-of-the-rock-chapel-portugal-picture-id547162754)
The man and girl got into a car and drove off at 5 pm.
A short car ride away there is another Childrens Residential Home. We went to have a quick look. This was situated on the old main road North and as the new North-South autoroute has been built it has become redundant and leads nowhere much ... so once again somewhere that no-one really sees, very few pass. The home is totally hidden, out of sight, on its other three faces.
This was where an aggressive, snarling, gawd-awful guard dog was trying to get at us, two old people in our seventies in the poorest hire car imaginable. Why?
Had there not been railings in between it would have ripped us apart.
What were we doing? Sitting there for less than two minutes in a very quiet, gentle looking neighbourhood and we were at least 25 meters away, so hardly threatening.
How many childrens homes do you know that keep ferocious guard dogs ?
When we arrived, it was a lovely scene, children with balls and bikes playing. They were called in straight away, the high steel gates slammed closed by the guards on duty and the guard dog immediately let out. We were not welcome !
Following Processos 809 and Processos 742-744 we have 3 Childrens homes / creches / seminaries / churches EACH with hidden access (or almost no passing traffic).
Not 1, Not 2, BUT THREE CO-INCEDENCES
Now that is one co-incidence too many ... especially as there are other things that are notable about these places.
I ask myself, was there someone / people at these places, maybe part of a ring, with an unhealthy interest in young children / pre pubescent children ?
.......................
Maybe at this stage, I should mention that there are two very compelling things that link my suspect with the second childrens home,
1) The likely drop off point in Rua Andres de Costa is just 2 miles away from the first abduction of the group of seven children abducted in PT. His name was Jorge Sepulveda and he was abducted from Masseroles, Porto.
2) My man of interest spends time between the drop off point with creche etc and the first abduction point of Jorge. They are only two miles apart. He was so close to the creche that he could have walked to that creche or church or school and back in half an hour, or so.
SY found these things interesting and came back to me.
I will leave it there for the moment, but there are other things ... some I cant share.
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Has this man of interest been mentioned in the Madeleine case Sadie, a recent arguido per chance?
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Has this man of interest been mentioned in the Madeleine case Sadie, a recent arguido per chance?
No John
My man of interest is an Elite. I believe he organised the abduction. He didn't get involved in the nitty gritty in PdL imo.
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My aplogies SIL The irritating virus that sometimes hits my computer has got at your quote as well as my post . Have amended this but for some reason both my images are half missing, but I think you can get an idea of what they look like..
You think !
I think differently.
Folllowing processos 809 and 742-744, I have found at three stages proximity to three childrens homes/ creches with oddities.
1) proximity to a childrens home/creche with hidden footpath from it. This was just a hundred metres away from the back of Campanha Railway station in Rua Pinheiro de Campanha. From the Home to Campanha Railway Station rear taxi-stands was a deeply sunken walled pavement. Anyone walking between these places and walking this path would have been largely hidden
The Childrens Centre is called: Centro Juvenil de Campanha - Seminario dos Meninos Desamparados ... A seminary, so also a training place for priests and a home for helpless children and a large nursery
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5Y6dzZoeAnk/VQsVFSuGhSI/AAAAAAAATvM/h5bpbbanKrI/s1600/SEMIN%C3%81RIO%2BDOS%2BMENINOS%2BDESAMPARADOS%2BNA%2BQUINTA%2BDO%2BPINHEIRO%2B-%2BPADRE%2BJOS%C3%89%2BOLIVEIRA%2B-%2B1814.jpeg)
Again my apologies. Only half the Seminario shows ... dont know hiow to change that but you can see it in full if you click on the interesting blog below
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=SERP&br=ro&mkt=en-GB&dl=en&lp=PT_EN&a=http%3a%2f%2fportoarc.blogspot.com%2f2015%2f03%2fcolegios-e-recolhimentos-ix.html
2) The likely drop off point from the taxi and nearest to where number 79 Rua Andres de Costa historically HAD stood, was at the end of a high walled alleyway, also part of Rua Andre de Costa. This drop off point was at the cross road between Rua Andre de Costa and Rua Vera Crus
The alleyway was curved so the part in the middle was out of sight from EITHER end. In the blind part the wall was down.
Easy peasy to get over on to the large triangular plot of land that housed the building of the new RC church, a giant Creche and a RC school.
I am sorry but I cannot supply images of this creche, which according to G.E. street scene is no longer a creche. It was a very fine looking large creche in 2010, now it looks down at heel and the big proud name sign has been taken down, along with the massive colourful poster advertisement for it that was painted on its end wall. I have photos of how it and the new pristine white painted church looked then.
It was called "Colegio Creche Nossa Senhora de Bonanca, Centro Paroquial, Candalâ" .... The church was called "Igreja Paroquial do Candalâ" Perhaps it also had the name that SIL gave it ? Dunno
I cant understand how the Church and the Creche have got so terribly dirty. The houses opposite haven't noticeably got any dirtier than in 2010. I have photos of those too.
Quite a co-incidence that there were creches / schools at either end of the taxi journey. As I said before, because of historical abuse of children by people attached to creches, churches and childrens homes as well as occasionally schools, I always look at these places closely ... and at priests
3) Then if we look at Processos 742-744
Three days later, a man was watched with a little girl on the beach at Miramar VNG. The witness was sure the girl was Madeleine. He had been reading all about it and had seen many photos of Madeleine.
This was at Miramar beach near Senhor de Pedera chapel on the beach, (photo below) again in the Vila Nova Gaia area of Porto greater district. https://www.flickr.com/photos/anselmo_sousa/6927092654/
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/anselmo_sousa/6927092654/)
(http://media.istockphoto.com/photos/lord-of-the-rock-chapel-portugal-picture-id547162754)
The man and girl got into a car and drove off at 5 pm.
A short car ride away there is another Childrens Residential Home. We went to have a quick look. This was situated on the old main road North and as the new North-South autoroute has been built it has become redundant and leads nowhere much ... so once again somewhere that no-one really sees, very few pass. The home is totally hidden, out of sight, on its other three faces.
This was where an aggressive, snarling, gawd-awful guard dog was trying to get at us, two old people in our seventies in the poorest hire car imaginable. Why?
Had there not been railings in between it would have ripped us apart.
What were we doing? Sitting there for less than two minutes in a very quiet, gentle looking neighbourhood and we were at least 25 meters away, so hardly threatening.
How many childrens homes do you know that keep ferocious guard dogs ?
When we arrived, it was a lovely scene, children with balls and bikes playing. They were called in straight away, the high steel gates slammed closed by the guards on duty and the guard dog immediately let out. We were not welcome !
Following Processos 809 and Processos 742-744 we have 3 Childrens homes / creches / seminaries / churches EACH with hidden access (or almost no passing traffic).
Not 1, Not 2, BUT THREE CO-INCEDENCES
Now that is one co-incidence too many ... especially as there are other things that are notable about these places.
I ask myself, was there someone / people at these places, maybe part of a ring, with an unhealthy interest in young children / pre pubescent children ?
.......................
Maybe at this stage, I should mention that there are two very compelling things that link my suspect with the second childrens home,
1) The likely drop off point in Rua Andres de Costa is just 2 miles away from the first abduction of the group of seven children abducted in PT. His name was Jorge Sepulveda and he was abducted from Masseroles, Porto.
2) My man of interest spends time between the drop off point with creche etc and the first abduction point of Jorge. They are only two miles apart. He was so close to the creche that he could have walked to that creche or church or school and back in half an hour, or so.
SY found these things interesting and came back to me.
I will leave it there for the moment, but there are other things ... some I cant share.
Let me see if I understand the beginnings of this.
The train from Faro to Campanhã is irrelevant. What is relevant is a taxi ride from Campanhã train station to 79 Rua André da Costa, because there are religious centres at both ends.
May I ask why Seminario dos Meninos Desamparados was so bereft of cars that someone chose to walk Madeleine to Campanhã train station to get a taxi?
May I ask how you are locating 79 Rua André da Costa near the junction with Vera Cruz?
Since there was no 79 Rua André da Costa there in 2007, how did the taxi driver know where to go?
Since the church at that end had not been built in 2007, why is it significant?
If the journey was from Campanhã to 79 Rua AdC, who changed the Portimão version? Is it now that the taxi driver is lying? If so, why? Or is it that Portimão PJ are involved in a conspiracy to hide the truth? If so, why?
You have a complex conspiracy theory either way. As opposed to a much simpler version that Portimão PJ clarified the original Porto PJ report.
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Let me see if I understand the beginnings of this.
The train from Faro to Campanhã is irrelevant.
Yes , I believe so. The main road, the new autoroute from the South, clover leafs off at Campanha, right by the creche and seminario. It happens to be by the back of Campanha station.
Carlos Moriera has stated that he saw a sleeping child in the back of a white van at a roadside snack bar, east of Lisboa. This snack bar was on the old main road up to Porto and the north. It now feeds into the autoroute that clover leafs off right by the creche near Campanha Railway Station rear entrance.
I believe that the little girl that Moreira sighted WAS Madeleine and that she arrived at Campanha by white van NOT by train.
What is relevant is a taxi ride from Campanhã train station to 79 Rua André da Costa,
Yep that and the white van which was at the snack bar at Samora Correia (near Lisboa) at 8 am and arrived at Campanha prior to the taxi ride which was at 12.40. The 4 hours 40 mins. would give a nice steady run up on the old main road ... or time for the driver and little girl to stop off somewhere ( The Creche / seminario at Campanha? ... or en route? ) if the autoroute was used.
because there are religious centres at both ends.
No, not becauise there are religious centres at each end, but because processos 807-808 seems to have a number of errors , which I haven't yet mentioned. That is except for the road Rua Andre de Costa having been changed to a road name which does NOT exist. Hmmm?
Meaning anyone searching for where the taxi driver dropped off would be totally unable to find it at all. Also the number of the house has been altered with a question mark on some copies of Processos 807-808. I have copies of Processos 807-808 , one with a question mark added to the 79 and one without . Hmmm?
The fact that there are religeous centre at each end is interesting, but to me the most interesting thing is that there are creches / childrens homes at both ends. Creches, childrens homes and boarding schools are known as places where paedos have been active historically. Altho priests have a bad record on this score too.
I know that the vast majority of Creches, childrens homes and boarding schools do a good job ... as the majority of priests do too ... but there is no getting away from the fact that a disproportionate share of these places and people have a horrendous history of abuse and paedophilia.
Because of this history, I look at these places and sadly people more carefully
May I ask why Seminario dos Meninos Desamparados was so bereft of cars that someone chose to walk Madeleine to Campanhã train station to get a taxi?
The taxis can be parked along that street almost to the partly hidden sunken pathway and when we went there, there were very few free parking spaces, so the taxis parked where they could get in.
It was only mid-day on the 4th May, just hours after Madeleine vanished. Madeleine would have been of little interest to the Portuguese at that moment, because she was not native Portuguese... and the media exitement had not yet hit Portugal.
I think the man felt fairly safe carrying her, 300 miles away from where she went missing ... and it is not impossible that the member/s of ?creche staff or ?priest/s at the seminario preferred not to get physically involved.
I dont think the man in the taxi had driven her up. I think he collected her from the white van or more likely from an intermediatory ... but I cant know that
May I ask how you are locating 79 Rua André da Costa near the junction with Vera Cruz?
Number 79 no longer exists. It is a low number so was at the western end of Rua Andre de Costa, which was along the 'blind' alleyway. Rua Andre de Costa has its odd numbers on the North of the road, evens on the south side. That placed number 79 as being along the alleyway Rua A de C and on its northern side.
I had worked all this out from Google street scene ( a Laborious task) before I went over to PT. My walk along the street on a blistering hot summers day, confirmed the position of number 79 as being on the large plot of land where a new RC church was being built. Also on this triangular plot of land nearby stood an established and massive Creche and a small RC School
Since there was no 79 Rua André da Costa there in 2007, how did the taxi driver know where to go?
I wasn't there SIL but my thoughts are that the man said he wanted to go to number 79 ... and then explained that it was down this narrow alleyway ... so could he please drop him off the end of the alleyway. It wasn't far, he would walk the rest.
The closest spot to where number 79 would have been is the junction of Rua A de C and Rua Vera Cruz
Since the church at that end had not been built in 2007, why is it significant?
It may or may not be significant, per se, but the fact of the matter appears to be that the man walked across the land where that church was being built. Was his destinatiion the creche which now is no longer shown there on GE ? If I am right, where was he going exactly? Church, Creche or school? ... or ?
Is May 4th a school holiday time SIL ?
If the journey was from Campanhã to 79 Rua AdC, who changed the Portimão version?
That I dont know. Originally I thought that it was at Amarals instruction but now I am veering towards someone from Porto / VNG . Someone maybe attached to a paedo group. Maybe not. Dunno
Is it now that the taxi driver is lying? If so, why?
In my opinion the taxi driver is totally honest, as it also appears is the original processos 809 written on the spot in Porto ... with full history of the officers who processed the report.
Processos 807-808 has a number of dubious "facts" which appear to have been added. I have limited time and am very slow, but give me time, and I will run thru them.
Would be good if some members on here found them. How about you SIL ? Or Robitty ? Or Misty ?
Or is it that Portimão PJ are involved in a conspiracy to hide the truth? If so, why?
I must admit to begin with I thought that as possible, because it seems that Amaral was set on "getting" the Mccanns and it seemed to me another "notch to his gun" ... but it is by no means certain. I am now thinking that probably someone at Porto end passed on disinformation to Portimao PJ. But we dont know, do we?
You have a complex conspiracy theory either way. As opposed to a much simpler version that Portimão PJ clarified the original Porto PJ report.
Processos 807-808 is a complex report and several things are wrong with it.
Processos 809 is simple and straight forward with all officers names attributed to it named.
Nothing that I can see is incorrect. 809 even says that the taxi driver dropped the man and little girl NEAR number 79 ... and that matches my theory absolutely.
If it weren't for all the inconsistencies, some not yet discussed, I wouldn't have looked so closely at the two processos.
There are also several other reasons why this sighting is potentially exciting.
But not tonight. Soz, I am too tired for another long typing session... and I would like to read the forum if I have the energy.
SIl, I appreciate the fact that you have looked at my extremely long post and made an attempt to analyse it TY.
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Yes , I believe so. The main road, the new autoroute from the South, clover leafs off at Campanha, right by the creche and seminario. It happens to be by the back of Campanha station.
Carlos Moriera has stated that he saw a sleeping child in the back of a white van at a roadside snack bar, east of Lisboa. This snack bar was on the old main road up to Porto and the north. It now feeds into the autoroute that clover leafs off right by the creche near Campanha Railway Station rear entrance.
I believe that the little girl that Moreira sighted WAS Madeleine and that she arrived at Campanha by white van NOT by train.
Yep that and the white van which was at the snack bar at Samora Correia (near Lisboa) at 8 am and arrived at Campanha prior to the taxi ride which was at 12.40. The 4 hours 40 mins. would give a nice steady run up on the old main road ... or time for the driver and little girl to stop off somewhere ( The Creche / seminario at Campanha? ... or en route? ) if the autoroute was used.
No, not becauise there are religious centres at each end, but because processos 807-808 seems to have a number of errors , which I haven't yet mentioned. That is except for the road Rua Andre de Costa having been changed to a road name which does NOT exist. Hmmm?
Meaning anyone searching for where the taxi driver dropped off would be totally unable to find it at all. Also the number of the house has been altered with a question mark on some copies of Processos 807-808. I have copies of Processos 807-808 , one with a question mark added to the 79 and one without . Hmmm?
The fact that there are religeous centre at each end is interesting, but to me the most interesting thing is that there are creches / childrens homes at both ends. Creches, childrens homes and boarding schools are known as places where paedos have been active historically. Altho priests have a bad record on this score too.
I know that the vast majority of Creches, childrens homes and boarding schools do a good job ... as the majority of priests do too ... but there is no getting away from the fact that a disproportionate share of these places and people have a horrendous history of abuse and paedophilia.
Because of this history, I look at these places and sadly people more carefully
The taxis can be parked along that street almost to the partly hidden sunken pathway and when we went there, there were very few free parking spaces, so the taxis parked where they could get in.
It was only mid-day on the 4th May, just hours after Madeleine vanished. Madeleine would have been of little interest to the Portuguese at that moment, because she was not native Portuguese... and the media exitement had not yet hit Portugal.
I think the man felt fairly safe carrying her, 300 miles away from where she went missing ... and it is not impossible that the member/s of ?creche staff or ?priest/s at the seminario preferred not to get physically involved.
I dont think the man in the taxi had driven her up. I think he collected her from the white van or more likely from an intermediatory ... but I cant know that
Number 79 no longer exists. It is a low number so was at the western end of Rua Andre de Costa, which was along the 'blind' alleyway. Rua Andre de Costa has its odd numbers on the North of the road, evens on the south side. That placed number 79 as being along the alleyway Rua A de C and on its northern side.
I had worked all this out from Google street scene ( a Laborious task) before I went over to PT. My walk along the street on a blistering hot summers day, confirmed the position of number 79 as being on the large plot of land where a new RC church was being built. Also on this triangular plot of land nearby stood an established and massive Creche and a small RC School
I wasn't there SIL but my thoughts are that the man said he wanted to go to number 79 ... and then explained that it was down this narrow alleyway ... so could he please drop him off the end of the alleyway. It wasn't far, he would walk the rest.
The closest spot to where number 79 would have been is the junction of Rua A de C and Rua Vera Cruz
It may or may not be significant, per se, but the fact of the matter appears to be that the man walked across the land where that church was being built. Was his destinatiion the creche which now is no longer shown there on GE ? If I am right, where was he going exactly? Church, Creche or school? ... or ?
Is May 4th a school holiday time SIL ?
That I dont know. Originally I thought that it was at Amarals instruction but now I am veering towards someone from Porto / VNG . Someone maybe attached to a paedo group. Maybe not. Dunno
In my opinion the taxi driver is totally honest, as it also appears is the original processos 809 written on the spot in Porto ... with full history of the officers who processed the report.
Processos 807-808 has a number of dubious "facts" which appear to have been added. I have limited time and am very slow, but give me time, and I will run thru them.
Would be good if some members on here found them. How about you SIL ? Or Robitty ? Or Misty ?
I must admit to begin with I thought that as possible, because it seems that Amaral was set on "getting" the Mccanns and it seemed to me another "notch to his gun" ... but it is by no means certain. I am now thinking that probably someone at Porto end passed on disinformation to Portimao PJ. But we dont know, do we?
Processos 807-808 is a complex report and several things are wrong with it.
Processos 809 is simple and straight forward with all officers names attributed to it named.
Nothing that I can see is incorrect. 809 even says that the taxi driver dropped the man and little girl NEAR number 79 ... and that matches my theory absolutely.
If it weren't for all the inconsistencies, some not yet discussed, I wouldn't have looked so closely at the two processos.
There are also several other reasons why this sighting is potentially exciting.
But not tonight. Soz, I am too tired for another long typing session... and I would like to read the forum if I have the energy.
SIl, I appreciate the fact that you have looked at my extremely long post and made an attempt to analyse it TY.
Sadie,
I cannot say if 4 May 2007 was a school holiday or not. It does not appear to be a bank holiday, but that tells us little to nothing.
Thank you for your most comprehensive reply.