Amaral's grasp of forensics ...

[DCI]

I am not a CSI expert, far from it, but don't you think that with the amount of evidence supplied to the best Laboratory in the world, a lot more information was expected?

The sturggies couldn't even say if the hair was from a dead or a live body - that much I could do with a simple microscope.

IIRC Mr Rebelo asked the UK authorities  for hairs found in the car to be looked at to see if their was death banding on them as a matter of urgency.There is nothing in the files to say this was done.

My colleague, Andrew Palmer,
submitted various hair collected from the Renault Scenic for tests, using ...
LCN. <br>Those hairs were designated as 7B hair 1 and 7C hairs 7, 13 e 15.
Attempts to obtain a DNA profile of each hair by LCN was unfruitful, because no
DNA profile was obtained by LCN, possibly due to there being an insufficient
quantity of good quality DNA.

[Redblossom]

DCI were thos hairs tested for deathbanding? That was the question.

[debunker]

Yes, Corte-Real had a meeting with them and was quite disappointed.
In fact as soon as he arrived in Portugal he actioned the Low Cut Analysis immediately, he wasn't going to loose more substantial data to phony laboratories.

I think you will find that the phrase you want is Low Copy Number

[Carana]

DCI were thos hairs tested for deathbanding? That was the question.

Did Corte-Real come to a different conclusion?  if he had, that would be serious. He did go to the FSS, didn't he? And there is a receipt slip.

[Redblossom]

DCI were thos hairs tested for deathbanding? That was the question.

Did Corte-Real come to a different conclusion?  if he had, that would be serious. He did go to the FSS, didn't he? And there is a receipt slip.

Sorry, but I haven't got a clue what you are saying.

Edited to amend spelling error.

[Carana]

DCI were thos hairs tested for deathbanding? That was the question.

Did Corte-Real come to a different conclusion?  if he had, that would be serious. He did go to the FSS, didn't he? And there is a receipt slip.

Sorry, but I haven't got a clue what you are saying.

Edited to amend spelling error.

Portuguese investigators arrive in UK 28 November 2007:

(from left) Luis Viriato, Francisco Corte-Real, Ricardo Paiva and Fernando Viegas.

The four-strong Portuguese team met five experts from the FSS at Leicestershire Police headquarters on 29 November 2007 to review and interpret the DNA results.

The team was led by Francisco Corte-Real, the vice-president of the National Pathology Institute. With him were Det Insp Ricardo Paiva and police scientists Fernando Viegas and Louis Viriato.


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id25.html

Palmer report:

Objects from the Renault Scenic - licence plate 59-DA-27
The following objects recovered from the scenic were subjected to examination:
1A, 1B, 1C, 1D,
2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2E,
3,
4A, 4B, 4C,
5A, 5B, 5C,
6A, 6B, 6C,
7A, 7B, 7C,
8A, 8B, 8C,
9 and
11 (2 objects).

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm

[Redblossom]

Thanks Carana for that. My only point, originally, was that Mr Rebelo asked for this specific testing and there is no record of it having being done or any correspondence further than the original request by Mr Rebelo. I really do not want to labour any point, I was making an observation about something which appears to be unanswered.

[Carana]

Thanks Carana for that. My only point, originally, was that Mr Rebelo asked for this specific testing and there is no record of it having being done or any correspondence further than the original request by Mr Rebelo. I really do not want to labour any point, I was making an observation about something which appears to be unanswered.

I was just trying to post what I understand to be facts.

I agree that there is no mention of any test as to whether they showed any sign of being post-mortem. But Corte-Real presumably also had the opportunity of examining them.

As far as I can work out, they were short fragments.

[Redblossom]

No worries Carana. Just another thing we will not know about. IMO after all the time many, formany differing reasons, probably felt they coyld not do any more. The PJ worked as much or more in time and effort  than many UK cases of missing people with an and or presumed dead tag. Still, cold cases can be opened at any time.

Edited for afterthought.

[gilet]

It wasn't only Amaral's grasp of forensics that was poor of course.

In an interview he said this about members of the team he was co-ordinating.

"I do not intend to blame any colleague, although the photo report left much to be desired, by not collecting any person in the photos when there were a lot of people in the house that night, it would have been important to have that. There were also weaknesses in taking fingerprints. It was normal, we were a small police station without specialised personnel in an investigation of this nature."

I wonder what those weaknesses were. And most importantly I wonder how those failings both in photography, and fingerprinting (and possibly other technical issues) impacted on the search for the little girl who had gone missing? I wonder if the police force had been better equipped or Amaral had mustered proper resources in those early hours of 4th May instead of sitting gazing at his own daughter and then going to bed whether the case would have progressed differently. Unfortunately those opportunities were lost and could never be recovered.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id165.html

[Carana]

Correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory again ...

There is an anomaly with the dates, but that's not the point of principal interest.

Subject: Sending of Pyjamas

The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.

The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.

The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.

The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.

With compliments

Signed

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Goncalo Amaral

And the bewiildered response:


1723 to 1725  Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
 Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)

Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS

Your communication: 2007/06/05

Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07

Subject: Information

With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.



This is the man who, apparently, contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results, then sent him away with  a flea in his ear to berate the FSS on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest ...

As a matter of fact it was Stuart Prior that irritated with the incongruences from the Lab, told them by phone that "with less than that I've sent people to prison".

What that shows is that the Laboratory was in fact a mess. They had received an amount of samples and that was just another to be taken with the others in order to be analized.  They are supposed to be scientists not clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party.

Yes, I do. It is in the book of Mr. Amaral, but very long before that I had that information from another person that was present at the room where that occurred.

Interesting.

[gilet]

Correspondence between Amaral and the Portuguese forensic laboratory again ...

There is an anomaly with the dates, but that's not the point of principal interest.

Subject: Sending of Pyjamas

The present inquiry investigates the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007. I am herewith delivering to the Police Scientific Laboratory a pair of girl's pyjamas.

The Pyjamas are from Marks and Spencers, size 2 to 3 years -97 cm.

The pyjamas are composed of two pieces: camisole type without buttons and half sleeves, pink with designs, letters and tracing in white with (small) floral patterns, the right pyjama bottom leg has a design (smaller size) which is identical to that of the camisole.

The pyjamas being sent are 'equal' in make, model, size, colours and designs as well as presumably the texture, to those the little girl was wearing at the time of her disappearance. The article sent serves for eventual comparisons with fibres collected by the competent officers of the Police Scientific Lab, within the scope of the current investigation.

With compliments

Signed

The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Goncalo Amaral

And the bewiildered response:


1723 to 1725  Letter 15 March 2007 from LPC to PJ Portimao asking what should be done with the pyjamas there having been no fibres collected during the Inquiry
07 Processos Vol VII Page 1723 to 1725
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1723
 Letter
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

Date: 2007/03/15 (sic)

Ref: NUIPC 201/07 GALGS

Your communication: 2007/06/05

Ref no. 15971 Reg Correspondence 6429/07

Subject: Information

With reference to the abovementioned letter and in compliance with the despatch, we request you to provide us with information with regard to what should be done with the material sent, given that in this Scientific Police Laboratory there are no fibres that have been collected within the scope of the investigation mentioned above.
With compliments.



This is the man who, apparently, contradicted Prior on interpretation of the forensic results, then sent him away with  a flea in his ear to berate the FSS on the subject of the PJ's powers of arrest ...

As a matter of fact it was Stuart Prior that irritated with the incongruences from the Lab, told them by phone that "with less than that I've sent people to prison".

What that shows is that the Laboratory was in fact a mess. They had received an amount of samples and that was just another to be taken with the others in order to be analized.  They are supposed to be scientists not clowns to go with the pijamas to a children's party.

Yes, I do. It is in the book of Mr. Amaral, but very long before that I had that information from another person that was present at the room where that occurred.

Interesting.

Well it would be interesting were there any evidence. But as there isn't (and never is from Luz or Amaral for that matter, then I think I will simply ignore it till some evidence is forthcoming.

[Carana]

Amaral apparently doesn't speak English. He may understand a few words, but probably not enough to understand a conversation, particularly if Stu has an unfamiliar accent.

Did the person in the room you are referring to speak English or not?