Sunny's request for cites

[Mr Gray]

Grime has described  himself as THE special advisor to the FBI.... Is there anything to support these claims. Training a cadaver dog is not rocket science... Sil is currently  doing it... The Americans surely with their body farms have nothing much to learn from Grime

[Mr Gray]

In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States.

These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption).

The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Surely the dog would respond to uncooked pork which had started to go off

[misty]

Surely the dog would respond to uncooked pork which had started to go off

If the dog could alert to a cube of burnt pork then it is logical it could alert to decomposing pig flesh (with or without bone & hide)

[Sunny]

If the dog could alert to a cube of burnt pork then it is logical it could alert to decomposing pig flesh (with or without bone & hide)

Where does it say they alert to burnt pork misty. I have asked Brietta but had no response.

[misty]

Where does it say they alert to burnt pork misty. I have asked Brietta but had no response.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2266.jpg

Half way down the page.

[Sunny]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2266.jpg

Half way down the page.

Thank you misty.  Interesting cooking method that, soaking in petrol for a week then setting alight to it. That would make it more than burnt it would be cremated along the lines of a real cremation. I see he says "burnt until only a residue remains". Presumably ash.

As he was clear about cooked meat I believe he considers a slightly overdone pork chop as something that Eddie would not alert to.

[misty]

Thank you misty.  Interesting cooking method that, soaking in petrol for a week then setting alight to it. That would make it more than burnt it would be cremated along the lines of a real cremation. I see he says "burnt until only a residue remains". Presumably ash.

As he was clear about cooked meat I believe he considers a slightly overdone pork chop as something that Eddie would not alert to.

Pork chops, with very little decomposition, fit for human consumption & subsequently cooked should not produce a cadaver dog alert although it is unclear whether Eddie had to be trained not to alert to same in the manner he was trained to not alert to roadkill. Cadaver dogs are known to alert to animal bones. They also do alert to cremains, which potentially misled the investigation into the disappearance of Deorr Kunz Jr.
IMO it's really important to bear in mind that Grime is a dog behavioural specialist, not a forensic scientist with detailed knowledge & understanding of the chemical compounds which make a dog alert.

[Brietta]

Where does it say that Martin Grime introduced cooked pork and all the dogs alerted Brietta?  Your post is pointless IMO.

Who is making that claim?

[Sunny]

Who is making that claim?

Brietta we have already agreed that one, hopefully amicably.

[Robittybob1]

Surely the dog would respond to uncooked pork which had started to go off

Different bacteria therefore different odour.

[Mr Gray]

Different bacteria therefore different odour.

But grime said Eddie would respond to decomposing pork

[Sunny]

But grime said Eddie would respond to decomposing pork

Do you have a cite Davel?

I have this

There were no alert indications from the remaining properties. I did however
see the dog search in the kitchen waste bins. These contained meat
foodstuffs including pork and did not result in any false alert response.

And

False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated
operationally or in training. In six years of operational deployment in over 200
criminal case searches the dog has never alerted to meat based and
specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

[Mr Gray]

Do you have a cite Davel?

I have this

There were no alert indications from the remaining properties. I did however
see the dog search in the kitchen waste bins. These contained meat
foodstuffs including pork and did not result in any false alert response.

And

False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated
operationally or in training. In six years of operational deployment in over 200
criminal case searches the dog has never alerted to meat based and
specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

.

These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption).

[Robittybob1]

But grime said Eddie would respond to decomposing pork

did he define what pork was?

[Sunny]

.

These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption).

Davel that has nothing to do with my post. Martin Grime was clear that Eddie didn't alert to decaying pork in a waste bin and wouldn't alert to cooked pork.