Is it true the PJ may have "Smithman" on video?

[Robittybob1]

Is it true the PJ may have "Smithman" on video?

Here is my logic:
A man was seen carrying a girl who may have looked like Madeleine.
Martin Smith has stated he is somewhat certain this man looked like Gerry McCann.
The e-fits drawn by the Smiths do look a little like Gerry McCann but not a spitting image IMO.

Combine that with the sighting of "Gerry McCann" at the restaurant on the beach caught on CCTV video.

It was later confirmed the man playing with the girl wasn't Gerry and the girl wasn't Madeleine.

Could this man be Smithman?

I'll have to find the references we were discussing yesterday.

[Robittybob1]

Now this is doublely interesting as in the article John posted the word "beach" comes up too!

"COPS PROBE GERMAN KILLER
"He appeared to be trying to close the gate quietly, using both hands, and very slowly and deliberately checking in both directions before walking to the end of the pathway and on to Rua Dr Gentil Martins."

The gate he walked through is understood to be to apartment 5B, next to the McCann’s 5A, where Kate and Gerry's friends Matt and Rachael Oldfield and their young daughter Grace were staying.

The couple and their toddler had been on the beach that afternoon with the holiday group from 3pm to 6pm.

The news comes after it emerged cops probing Maddie's disappearance are investigating Martin Ney, 48, who is serving life for abducting and murdering three kids in 2012."

"The couple and their toddler had been on the beach that afternoon with the holiday group from 3pm to 6pm."
AFAIK that sentence is not describing Kate, Gerry and Madeleine.  but is the same couple that was on video I believe.

[Robittybob1]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10801.msg540561#msg540561

"I wonder how this commentator got to know about the footage from the other restaurant, with a girl in it similar to Madeleine.   Does anyone know about this?

It comes up fairly soon after this point https://youtu.be/E6LkoAHyPoc?t=1732"

Misty replied "It was an early press report, Rob. The manager (or whoever) seems to have got mixed up with another family."
And again a little later with a link to a press release.  "Here's one of the news reports, Rob.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/revealed-gerry-mccanns-last-dance-with-little-madeleine-6620288.html

Did the PJ identify that Dad and child?

I'm now thinking that man could be Smithman.

[Robittybob1]

How does the story go?
"A restaurant owner who is one of the last people to have seen Madeleine McCann yesterday told how she danced with her father on the seafront just hours before she vanished.

Miguel Matias, who has never spoken before, said the McCanns seemed a perfectly normal family and there was nothing to hint at the tragedy to come.

Kate and Gerry McCann, the children and their holiday friends spent an hour at restaurant Paraiso on the beach of Praia da Luz, where the youngsters ate their dinner."


From Gerry McCann Blogs
"MIGUEL MATIAS

MIGUEL MATIAS (Manager of the Paraiso Restaurant)
A restaurant manager in Praia da Luz said the family were at the beach at around 5pm, while the couple insist Mr McCann was playing tennis as Mrs McCann gave the children supper at the Ocean Club resort, where they were staying. Miguel Matias, who runs the beachside Paraiso restaurant said he saw Mr McCann dancing with his daughter as the family ate a meal on the terrace in the early evening. Several days later he contacted police and handed over CCTV footage: "We would not have handed the CCTV if we were not sure. They have taken it as evidence."

So the PJ have the evidence according to that article.

[Robittybob1]

Continuing on with the Google search for Miguel Matias:

This is a translation of an article supposedly from Correio da Manhã
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2007/12/cameras-were-fully-operationnal.html

"In agreement with statements of the McCann’s friends quoted by the English press, the children stayed in the day-care center during the afternoon, while Gerry had lessons of tennis and Kate stayed in the swimming pool. According to this version, Madeleine took tea in the day-care center at around 17h and her parents went to pick her up just before 18 h. They went to their apartment, from where the parents said to gone out to have dinner with the friends in the Tapas restaurant where they arrived at 20h. “There are registers and witnesses”, said a source, “Kate was never alone with Madeleine during the afternoon”, it underlines another one, both quoted in the English press.

Miguel Matias contradicts this version. The owner of the restaurant Paradise, in the Praia de Luz, guarantees that the McCanns were in that same afternoon in his restaurant. And it guarantees to have proofs. Recordings of CCTV footage that are already in the possession of the PJ. “The date is in the images”, it stated to the CM.

It was a week after the disappearance, when the image of the girl and of the parents was filling the news spaces, that an employee alerted the boss. He remembered the face of a friend of the couple.

Miguel Matias took the footage to house and he saw them. He absolutely guarantees that in the CCTV footage were the McCanns, with three children, together with two couples and another two children. He also stated that he saw an elderly woman. He confirmed that Madeleine did in fact ate in the restaurant."

Comment:
There seems to be a real conflict between what Miguel says and what the McCanns claim.  I accept that Miguel is confused but that still doesn't explain who it was seen on the CCTV footage.

[Robittybob1]

This could explain why the PJ never really went searching for Smithman - they know who he is already, they had him on CCTV at the Paraiso Restaurant on the afternoon of the 3rd.

Therefore they know that it wasn't Gerry McCann that the Smiths saw.  The PJ reasoning given that Gerry had a water tight alibi for 10:00 PM never rang true for me.
But if they know who Smithman was that is a totally different story.

[ShiningInLuz]

Continuing on with the Google search for Miguel Matias:

This is a translation of an article supposedly from Correio da Manhã
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2007/12/cameras-were-fully-operationnal.html

"In agreement with statements of the McCann’s friends quoted by the English press, the children stayed in the day-care center during the afternoon, while Gerry had lessons of tennis and Kate stayed in the swimming pool. According to this version, Madeleine took tea in the day-care center at around 17h and her parents went to pick her up just before 18 h. They went to their apartment, from where the parents said to gone out to have dinner with the friends in the Tapas restaurant where they arrived at 20h. “There are registers and witnesses”, said a source, “Kate was never alone with Madeleine during the afternoon”, it underlines another one, both quoted in the English press.

Miguel Matias contradicts this version. The owner of the restaurant Paradise, in the Praia de Luz, guarantees that the McCanns were in that same afternoon in his restaurant. And it guarantees to have proofs. Recordings of CCTV footage that are already in the possession of the PJ. “The date is in the images”, it stated to the CM.

It was a week after the disappearance, when the image of the girl and of the parents was filling the news spaces, that an employee alerted the boss. He remembered the face of a friend of the couple.

Miguel Matias took the footage to house and he saw them. He absolutely guarantees that in the CCTV footage were the McCanns, with three children, together with two couples and another two children. He also stated that he saw an elderly woman. He confirmed that Madeleine did in fact ate in the restaurant."

Comment:
There seems to be a real conflict between what Miguel says and what the McCanns claim.  I accept that Miguel is confused but that still doesn't explain who it was seen on the CCTV footage.

Miguel died some years back.

The Paraíso was then run by a son, on behalf of his mother.

[G-Unit]

This could explain why the PJ never really went searching for Smithman - they know who he is already, they had him on CCTV at the Paraiso Restaurant on the afternoon of the 3rd.

Therefore they know that it wasn't Gerry McCann that the Smiths saw.  The PJ reasoning given that Gerry had a water tight alibi for 10:00 PM never rang true for me.
But if they know who Smithman was that is a totally different story.

The bloke said it was Madeleine and her father.
We know it wasn't.
If it was one of the group it was either DP or ROB.
Neither of them fit the Smithman efits.
Therefore Smithman wasn't at the Paraiso on 3rd May.

[Robittybob1]

The bloke said it was Madeleine and her father.
We know it wasn't.
If it was one of the group it was either DP or ROB.
Neither of them fit the Smithman efits.
Therefore Smithman wasn't at the Paraiso on 3rd May.

I should first of all say thanks for a reply.

Do you think Miguel says Gerry and his daughter were part of a group?

If they were altogether then you could be right ("If it was one of the group it was either DP or ROB."), but so far when I read what Miguel reported it sounded more like this "father" was on his own with his "daughter".  I could be wrong, can you see where I'm going wrong?

"If it was one of the group it was either DP or ROB.
Neither of them fit the Smithman efits. "  OK I agree there.  So this person that is in the video, did the PJ identify him as "either DP or ROB"?

Therefore you have not proved Smithman wasn't at the Paraiso on 3rd May IMO.

[Robittybob1]

Today I'm going to study the archiving report.  If the PJ knew who Smithman was there could well be clues in there.

[barrier]

Today I'm going to study the archiving report.  If the PJ knew who Smithman was there could well be clues in there.

OG supposedly have done that and after being almost certain who  Tannerman was they shifted their focus to Smithman,why would they do that if he'd already been identified.

[Robittybob1]

OG supposedly have done that and after being almost certain who  Tannerman was they shifted their focus to Smithman,why would they do that if he'd already been identified.

Good question Barrier but did the PJ get their identification correct?

The one question I want answered is: How can we be sure, even if the identification was correct, that the girl being carried at 10:00 PM was the same girl that he was playing with in the afternoon?

[G-Unit]

I should first of all say thanks for a reply.

Do you think Miguel says Gerry and his daughter were part of a group?

If they were altogether then you could be right ("If it was one of the group it was either DP or ROB."), but so far when I read what Miguel reported it sounded more like this "father" was on his own with his "daughter".  I could be wrong, can you see where I'm going wrong?

"If it was one of the group it was either DP or ROB.
Neither of them fit the Smithman efits. "  OK I agree there.  So this person that is in the video, did the PJ identify him as "either DP or ROB"?

Therefore you have not proved Smithman wasn't at the Paraiso on 3rd May IMO.

He reports seeing this man and his daughter but was it filmed by the camera?

[Robittybob1]

He reports seeing this man and his daughter but was it filmed by the camera?

OK I can accept that, but just means his observation is backed up the CCTV tape.  That still doesn't tell us who it was?  He thought it was Gerry, so did the PJ think the same or not?

I'm just a bit unsure why you'd think "He reports seeing this man and his daughter but was it filmed by the camera" is a bit unusual.

[G-Unit]

OK I can accept that, but just means his observation is backed up the CCTV tape.  That still doesn't tell us who it was?  He thought it was Gerry, so did the PJ think the same or not?

I'm just a bit unsure why you'd think "He reports seeing this man and his daughter but was it filmed by the camera" is a bit unusual.

The footage shows no dancing so it didn't happen between 17:31 and 18L36. Many people reported seeing the McCanns and Madeleine but that doesn't mean that's who they saw.