Is it true the PJ may have "Smithman" on video?

[ShiningInLuz]

No jane does use the term "limp", as if unconscious.

I don't think 'limp', 'sleeping' and 'unconscious' have different meanings in this context, in laymans language.

Neither JT nor the Smiths considered the sightings suspicious until after they learned of the childs disappearance.

[Robittybob1]

I don't think 'limp', 'sleeping' and 'unconscious' have different meanings in this context, in laymans language.

Neither JT nor the Smiths considered the sightings suspicious until after they learned of the childs disappearance.

She is not really a layman as Jane is in a relationship with a doctor, so might have more knowledge about these things than an average layman.

[pathfinder73]

Both children were considered potentially to be MM.

Both sightings were deemed insignificant until the sighters became aware of MMs disappearance.  JT was faster to be informed of this than the Smiths.

A clothing issue arises only if one accepts the McCanns version of events and the accuracy of the Smith statements.

The bit IYO is precisely that.  Neither JT nor any of the Smiths reported a semi-conscious child.

What looks like a black jacket and beige pants are seen in crime scene photos

"Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer."

"Adds further that his son TA*** was questioned in Ireland and said that the individual was dressed in a long-sleeved coat/jacket, black in colour, and that the child was barefoot."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

[ShiningInLuz]

She is not really a layman as Jane is in a relationship with a doctor, so might have more knowledge about these things than an average layman.

What she might or might not have known compared to the average layman is immaterial.   If you think she was using some form of medical terminology, it is incumbent on you to show that 'limp' has a distinct meaning in medicine, that it does not apply to 'asleep' or 'unconscious', and that JT was communicating this nugget of information to the PJ, although it never seems to surface again.

[Robittybob1]

What she might or might not have known compared to the average layman is immaterial.   If you think she was using some form of medical terminology, it is incumbent on you to show that 'limp' has a distinct meaning in medicine, that it does not apply to 'asleep' or 'unconscious', and that JT was communicating this nugget of information to the PJ, although it never seems to surface again.

All good suggestions and I might attempt it one day, but not today.

[Holly Goodhead]

Why would you say that?   If there is anything that can't be mistaken it is the direction something passes through your visual field,  You might not focus on it, but for sure you know in what direction it travelled.
IMO Jane saw someone walking left to right.    That is not a red herring.

Because I can and its what I believe!

How does the direction travelled make the sighting relevant and not a 'red herring'?

[ShiningInLuz]

Because I can and its what I believe!

How does the direction travelled make the sighting relevant and not a 'red herring'?

There are issues with both the Tannerman sighting and the Smithman sighting.

Assuming this is about Tannerman, he was going the wrong way.  Even JT in her rogatory states that someone retrieving a child from the OC night creche was going the wrong way.  If Tannerman is Totman, then his apartment was in block 4, also the wrong way.

There have been many attempts to explain this wrong way conundrum.

If Tannerman is not Totman, the sighting remains of interest.

[Holly Goodhead]

There are issues with both the Tannerman sighting and the Smithman sighting.

Assuming this is about Tannerman, he was going the wrong way.  Even JT in her rogatory states that someone retrieving a child from the OC night creche was going the wrong way.  If Tannerman is Totman, then his apartment was in block 4, also the wrong way.

There have been many attempts to explain this wrong way conundrum.

If Tannerman is not Totman, the sighting remains of interest.

Thanks for explaining.  Block 4 is to the left of block 5, from the pool side?  I have assumed, perhaps wrongly, that OC night creche was somewhere around the reception area used to enter/exit pool/tapas area?  Do we have a location map with all these sites of interest highlighted? 

Can it be ruled out that Tannerman was not simply going some other place that made him take a detour before heading home?  Eg shop or to meet others in a cafe/bar/restaurant?  Or simply walking around to send child to sleep as JW was doing earlier?  Maybe even heading to a better location for a phone signal or wanted to take a pic of sleeping child at night in some location?  Or even killing time until the key holder turned up. 

Would any child abductor walk around with said child so close to soc assuming any abductor is without mental illness and/or cognitive difficulties?

I note also there's a primary school in PDL and no evidence/history of attempted abductions or suspicious looking individuals hanging around?

[ShiningInLuz]

Thanks for explaining.  Block 4 is to the left of block 5, from the pool side?  I have assumed, perhaps wrongly, that OC night creche was somewhere around the reception area used to enter/exit pool/tapas area?  Do we have a location map with all these sites of interest highlighted? 

Can it be ruled out that Tannerman was not simply going some other place that made him take a detour before heading home?  Eg shop or to meet others in a cafe/bar/restaurant?  Or simply walking around to send child to sleep as JW was doing earlier?  Maybe even heading to a better location for a phone signal or wanted to take a pic of sleeping child at night in some location?  Or even killing time until the key holder turned up. 

Would any child abductor walk around with said child so close to soc assuming any abductor is without mental illness and/or cognitive difficulties?

I note also there's a primary school in PDL and no evidence/history of attempted abductions or suspicious looking individuals hanging around?

Lots of good questions so here's lots of answers.

From the Tapas pool, block 4 is on the left, block 5 is in the centre, block 6 is (across the road) to the right.

The OC night creche was above OC 24 hr reception, on Rua Direita, so quite some distance away from the Tapas.

There is a map of the OC on the forum somewhere.  It does not cover Smithman, as Smithman was not in the vicinity of the OC.

The nearest shop/restaurant in that direction is perhaps 500m away.  It's the Mirage, close to the Millennium, both of which feature in the PJ Files.

JT appears to describe a sleeping child, so if it was Totman, he should have been carrying his daughter the other way, back to base.

The key holder explanation is one of the better suggested explanations, as there was only one key per family.  However, while the route taken CAN be used to go to and from the OC creche to block 4, it is not the 'logical' one.

Walk around close to the soc with a child?  There's more than one way to disappear from 5A on foot, complete with child.  Tannerman was taking an option that would get him to safety and darkness in seconds.

There is a primary school in Luz, near to the Smith sightings.  There is also a kindergarden even closer, smack dab on the road that runs outside the front of 5A.

According to one resident curmudgeon, the only strange man near the school is me!

 

[Holly Goodhead]

Lots of good questions so here's lots of answers.

From the Tapas pool, block 4 is on the left, block 5 is in the centre, block 6 is (across the road) to the right.

The OC night creche was above OC 24 hr reception, on Rua Direita, so quite some distance away from the Tapas.

There is a map of the OC on the forum somewhere.  It does not cover Smithman, as Smithman was not in the vicinity of the OC.

The nearest shop/restaurant in that direction is perhaps 500m away.  It's the Mirage, close to the Millennium, both of which feature in the PJ Files.

JT appears to describe a sleeping child, so if it was Totman, he should have been carrying his daughter the other way, back to base.

The key holder explanation is one of the better suggested explanations, as there was only one key per family.  However, while the route taken CAN be used to go to and from the OC creche to block 4, it is not the 'logical' one.

Walk around close to the soc with a child?  There's more than one way to disappear from 5A on foot, complete with child.  Tannerman was taking an option that would get him to safety and darkness in seconds.

There is a primary school in Luz, near to the Smith sightings.  There is also a kindergarden even closer, smack dab on the road that runs outside the front of 5A.

According to one resident curmudgeon, the only strange man near the school is me!

 

Equally good answers   

How can we be sure JT was correct about the direction travelled? 

What does Dr Totman have to say?  Is he able to shed any light on direction travelled?

[ShiningInLuz]

Equally good answers   

How can we be sure JT was correct about the direction travelled? 

What does Dr Totman have to say?  Is he able to shed any light on direction travelled?

If JT was wrong, she should have seen Tannerman as she rounded the corner.  If she was corect, then Tannerman was behind her as she rounded the corner.  Out of sight.

I'm not sure what Totman says.  He was pictured in the press as JT described, going from JT's left to her right, with the child's feet towards JT.  Unless one mirror-images the whole lot, then JT got the sighting correct.

Whether it was Totman or not is another issue.

[jassi]

Totman says he was the man seen carrying his child that night, to his apartment

If this is correct and OG aren't denying it, then Tanner was wrong, either accidentally or deliberately.
 and there was no man walking away from 5A at that time.

[Brietta]

Totman says he was the man seen carrying his child that night, to his apartment

If this is correct and OG aren't denying it, then Tanner was wrong, either accidentally or deliberately.
 and there was no man walking away from 5A at that time.

Where does Dr Totman say that?

[jassi]

Where does Dr Totman say that?

https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/07/madeleine-mccann-police-wasted-years-hunting-man-already-spoken-7527943/

[Robittybob1]

Because I can and its what I believe!

How does the direction travelled make the sighting relevant and not a 'red herring'?

The Man was going away from apartment block 4 and 5 with a limp child held across his arms.  - highly significant observation IMO.