Fingerprints

[Robittybob1]

I can't find an existing thread for the above so here's a new one.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

The only mention of fingerprints in KM's book is on page 102 where she states people had been in and out of the room (where the twins were still sleeping) for the last 3 hours when a young officer entered with a brush and pair of latex gloves.  So on this basis I guess it was around 1 am - 2 am 4th May. 

She goes on to say the young officer also took fingerprint samples from herself and GM but it seems they were unsuccessful as they had to repeat the same exercise the following day at the police station.

Were all the other reference fingerprint samples of the people "in and out of the room" taken at a later time?

[G-Unit]

I can't find an existing thread for the above so here's a new one.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

The only mention of fingerprints in KM's book is on page 102 where she states people had been in and out of the room (where the twins were still sleeping) for the last 3 hours when a young officer entered with a brush and pair of latex gloves.  So on this basis I guess it was around 1 am - 2 am 4th May. 

She goes on to say the young officer also took fingerprint samples from herself and GM but it seems they were unsuccessful as they had to repeat the same exercise the following day at the police station.

Yet Joao Barreiras was able to state in his report that the prints on the window belonged the Kate, so he must have suceeded to some extent;
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

[Holly Goodhead]

The fingerprint I'm interested in is the one from the side of the patio door marked up "unidentified".  This was farmed out to various countries across the world for Interpol to check databases.  No matches found but Weinbaden (you can't beat German attn to detail!) commented that the fingerprint could have originated from a woman or youth but not a child.  I assume from this a man was ruled out based on size (size does matter!).  Then we have GA who attributed the fingerprint to a male officer!?

A well known phenomenon exists whereby a police officer(s) arrive at a theory/suspect(s) and then dismiss anything that points away from the theory/suspect.  Worse still 'noble cause corruption' comes into play where evidence that points away from the theory/suspect(s) is deliberately withheld or even fabricated.  I'm not suggesting this has happened here as I don't have all the detail but at first glance it looks a bit dodgy!?

[G-Unit]

The fingerprint I'm interested in is the one from the side of the patio door marked up "unidentified".  This was farmed out to various countries across the world for Interpol to check databases.  No matches found but Weinbaden (you can't beat German attn to detail!) commented that the fingerprint could have originated from a woman or youth but not a child.  I assume from this a man was ruled out based on size (size does matter!).  Then we have GA who attributed the fingerprint to a male officer!?

A well known phenomenon exists whereby a police officer(s) arrive at a theory/suspect(s) and then dismiss anything that points away from the theory/suspect.  Worse still 'noble cause corruption' comes into play where evidence that points away from the theory/suspect(s) is deliberately withheld or even fabricated.  I'm not suggesting this has happened here as I don't have all the detail but at first glance it looks a bit dodgy!?

Well Amaral wasn't making anything up according to the files, he was just acting on information received from the technicians;

Date: 2007/05/18

Service Information

To: The Coordinator of the Investigation, G. Amaral

From: Assistant Specialist Irene Trovao

Subject: Identification of finger print

I inform you that according to report nº 140/07 there is a single finger print with sufficient value for identification.

It was revealed with Dragon Blood and gathered from the side of the living room window/door of Ocean Club apartment 5 A on 4th May 2007 after the disappearance of the child.

This morning Officer Silva delivered various fingerprints belonging to his officers who were on duty at the apartment on the night of 3 – 4 May 2007.

These were compared to the finger print which was identified as being that of Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

[jassi]

Well Amaral wasn't making anything up according to the files, he was just acting on information received from the technicians;

Date: 2007/05/18

Service Information

To: The Coordinator of the Investigation, G. Amaral

From: Assistant Specialist Irene Trovao

Subject: Identification of finger print

I inform you that according to report nº 140/07 there is a single finger print with sufficient value for identification.

It was revealed with Dragon Blood and gathered from the side of the living room window/door of Ocean Club apartment 5 A on 4th May 2007 after the disappearance of the child.

This morning Officer Silva delivered various fingerprints belonging to his officers who were on duty at the apartment on the night of 3 – 4 May 2007.

These were compared to the finger print which was identified as being that of Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

Nice to have that cleared up 

[Brietta]

Well Amaral wasn't making anything up according to the files, he was just acting on information received from the technicians;

Date: 2007/05/18

Service Information

To: The Coordinator of the Investigation, G. Amaral

From: Assistant Specialist Irene Trovao

Subject: Identification of finger print

I inform you that according to report nº 140/07 there is a single finger print with sufficient value for identification.

It was revealed with Dragon Blood and gathered from the side of the living room window/door of Ocean Club apartment 5 A on 4th May 2007 after the disappearance of the child.

This morning Officer Silva delivered various fingerprints belonging to his officers who were on duty at the apartment on the night of 3 – 4 May 2007.

These were compared to the finger print which was identified as being that of Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

Amaral has wrongly publicised information which you have chosen to repeat to the forum http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11027.msg556013#msg556013 he also perpetuated error regarding fingerprints using his documentary as his publicity vehicle which has already been revealed on this forum.

Therefore according to the files he is responsible for publicising misinformation regarding fingerprints; whether or not that was due to malfeasance or just an example of sheer incompetence is for him to know and you to speculate about; but he has never used the information available in the files to rectify his error.

[Holly Goodhead]

Well Amaral wasn't making anything up according to the files, he was just acting on information received from the technicians;

Date: 2007/05/18

Service Information

To: The Coordinator of the Investigation, G. Amaral

From: Assistant Specialist Irene Trovao

Subject: Identification of finger print

I inform you that according to report nº 140/07 there is a single finger print with sufficient value for identification.

It was revealed with Dragon Blood and gathered from the side of the living room window/door of Ocean Club apartment 5 A on 4th May 2007 after the disappearance of the child.

This morning Officer Silva delivered various fingerprints belonging to his officers who were on duty at the apartment on the night of 3 – 4 May 2007.

These were compared to the finger print which was identified as being that of Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

But GA was coordinator for the investigation.  The fingerprint analysts at Weinbaden stated the unidentified fingerprint could have originated from a youth or woman but not a child.  Although not expressly stated it would seem the analysts ruled out a man.  Yet GA has overlooked this and happy to attribute the fingerprint to a male officer.  I know from looking at other cases 'chain of custody' re evidence collection becomes crucial.  What processes can be relied upon to show that no foul play is involved?

[Holly Goodhead]

It has, a direct quote referring to a dna sample... To say no dna sample exists is therefore opinion.. Not fact

I understand Euclides Monteiro was ruled out based on DNA?  If this is correct then I guess investigators must have collected some unidentified DNA from 5A. 

[jassi]

But GA was coordinator for the investigation.  The fingerprint analysts at Weinbaden stated the unidentified fingerprint could have originated from a youth or woman but not a child. Although not expressly stated it would seem the analysts ruled out a man.  Yet GA has overlooked this and happy to attribute the fingerprint to a male officer.  I know from looking at other cases 'chain of custody' re evidence collection becomes crucial.  What processes can be relied upon to show that no foul play is involved?

Why should they be considered correct and the Portugusese wrong  regarding these prints?

The Portuguese produced a positive ID, the Germans didn't.

[Holly Goodhead]

But GA was coordinator for the investigation.  The fingerprint analysts at Weinbaden stated the unidentified fingerprint could have originated from a youth or woman but not a child.  Although not expressly stated it would seem the analysts ruled out a man.  Yet GA has overlooked this and happy to attribute the fingerprint to a male officer.  I know from looking at other cases 'chain of custody' re evidence collection becomes crucial.  What processes can be relied upon to show that no foul play is involved?

The above needs explaining if we have one set of fingerprint analysts strongly inferring the identified fingerprint could not have originated from a male and another set of analysts saying it originated from a male?!

Who do you trust?  Germany which produces quality cars, white goods and football teams whose economy is one of the strongest, if the not strongest in the EU or Portugal which produces not a lot and whose economy was aligned with the PIIGS!?   

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/piigs.asp

[jassi]

The above needs explaining if we have one set of fingerprint analysts strongly inferring the identified fingerprint could not have originated from a male and another set of analysts saying it originated from a male?!

Who do you trust?  Germany which produces quality cars, white goods and football teams whose economy is one of the strongest, if the not strongest in the EU or Portugal which produces not a lot and whose economy was aligned with the PIIGS!?   

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/piigs.asp

Not really relevant, is it ?

[Holly Goodhead]

Why should they be considered correct and the Portugusese wrong  regarding these prints?

The Portuguese produced a positive ID, the Germans didn't.

I would suggest before wasting time and money farming out requests all over the world seeking assistance from other countries/Interpol it would make sense to eliminate innocent contamination by way of officers at soc first. 

It needs explaining/further investigation.  I have just sent another email to OG to follow up.   

[Brietta]

I understand Euclides Monteiro was ruled out based on DNA?  If this is correct then I guess investigators must have collected some unidentified DNA from 5A.

I believe there is unidentified DNA from 5A.  Carana is our expert on that.  But I think Euclides DNA was associated with the stranger attacks on children. Misty would be the best bet for information on that.

[Vertigo Swirl]

The above needs explaining if we have one set of fingerprint analysts strongly inferring the identified fingerprint could not have originated from a male and another set of analysts saying it originated from a male?!

Who do you trust?  Germany which produces quality cars, white goods and football teams whose economy is one of the strongest, if the not strongest in the EU or Portugal which produces not a lot and whose economy was aligned with the PIIGS!?   

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/piigs.asp

Xenophobe!!  Racist!!  Lusophobe!!
(just saving others the trouble).

[Holly Goodhead]

Not really relevant, is it ?

Not really but can you imagine Germany wasting time and money farming out requests all over the world for assistance from other countries/Interpol only to then turn around and say 'Ooops sorry it was from one of our own officers at soc'?