Is There Any Connection Between The Disappearance of Joana Cipriano and MM?

[Wonderfulspam]

Yes, the McCanns were just not bothered at all, even going so far as to tell their mates “nah, no need to go to reception to call the police, she’s bound to be back in a day or two”.  Then they went back to their table and ordered dessert.

It's was Fiona who suggested to Matt he should go to reception & call the police. Kate was busy punching & kicking walls & deleting her call history, Gerry was busy elsewhere.

[Vertigo Swirl]

It's was Fiona who suggested to Matt he should go to reception & call the police. Kate was busy punching & kicking walls & deleting her call history, Gerry was busy elsewhere.

Yeah, anything to distract the rest of the group from calling the police, obviously.  That’s why people stage abductions - cos they know the police won’t be called.

[Eleanor]

I do think that one should not take the meanderings of Spammy to seriously.   It's all a bit like  ```````````Mistaken.  `````not worth deleting.

[G-Unit]

I am probably more incensed by what was done to Leonor Cipriano than I am by what was done to Kate McCann.  The British Ambassador didn't turn up toute de bloody suite because he had nothing better to do.  And after the other debacle of Michael Cooke then The British Embassy weren't having that one again. 

They knew that there was a distinct possibility that Kate McCann could be beaten into a confession.  This is what The PJ did in those days, especially when Goncalo Amaral was involved, as he was instrumental in the beating of Leonor Cipriano.

It would seem that Amaral was unaware of what went on while Leonor Cipriano was being beaten.  So Amaral was no where near The Police Station for two days while this was going on?  Amaral was somewhere else, was he?  And he had nothing to do with PJ Officers being brought down from Lisbon?

This is such utter rubbish that it leaves me almost speechless, but only almost.

PJ Officers brought down from Lisbon? How is that relevant?

[Holly Goodhead]

There certainly are some similarities between the cases of Maddie & Joana.

When Joana went missing, neither her mother or uncle bothered to pick up their phones & tell the police.

When Maddie went missing, neither her mother or father bothered to pick up their phones & tell the police.

Probably Amaral's fault somehow.

JC's mother/uncle were living in their country of origin at the time of her disappearance so would know the number for the police and speak the same language.  As the McCanns were holiday makers it is unlikely they would know the number for police and even if they did they would potentially have a language barrier to cross.  Hence the McCanns went to OC reception where a member of staff was able to act as an interpreter.

JC was of an age when she was out and about alone not so for MM.  Even when PJ were called over MM they initially dismissed abduction and thought she had simply wandered off so I doubt they would take JC's disappearance seriously until she had been missing for some length of time.

[Holly Goodhead]

The McCanns:

Holiday makers
MM disappeared from holiday apartment
Middle class parents
MM nearly 4 yoa

The Cipriano's:

Local residents
JC disappeared from the locality.  Last seen around a local shop - not known whether or not she arrived home.
Working class mother/uncle
JC 8.5 yoa

For me the key to the MM case is the unsecured patio door that only a finite number of people could have known about. 

My suspect/theory involves a woman.  If I'm right I'm struggling to find a motive for both JC and MM unless it was something very sinister along the lines of Brady and Hindley. 

[John]

Yes I do. 

Why was Leonor beaten black and blue over several hours?  And please don't tell me it was because The PJ wanted to know what she had done with the body IF she had already confessed.

And the non existent Forensics were a joke.

No one has so far effectively proved that the child arrived back home from the shop in the first place.

You could say that if you ignore the facts.

1. A neighbour sitting at her window SAW the girl return home.
2. Her shoes were in the house.
3. The tins of milk which she was sent to the shop for were in the house.
4. The forensics revealed deep cleaning but blood still remained on the door frame and on shoes.

[John]

I think both of them may well be innocent.  No forensic evidence against either.... In fact no real evidence against either at the trial.... Apart from confessions... In the csde of Leonora... According to the Portuguese court beaten out if her by the PJ and amaral found guilty of trying to cover it up which makes him complicit.  I haven't seen any confession of banging Joannas head off the door frame.

Leonoras problem was having been found guilty she had no chance if parole if she protested innocence.

Looking at the case in detail

No real evidence... No forensics... PJ guilty of torture... Amaral guilty of perjury

I think you need to revisit the case files instead of posting untruths. When Leonor Cipriano originally confessed she did so to cover up for her brother. She did so freely and without any coercion.  The forensic and circumstantial evidence was more than sufficient to convict both of them. The additional sentence handed down to Leonor Cipriano for lying under oath (perjury) was also warranted.

There can be little doubt that the Portuguese police interrogated Leonor Cipriano and her brother using questionable methods. It is also clear that police officers under the control of Gonçalo Amaral tortured Leonor Cipriano in a desperate attempt to save Joana had she still been alive. Amaral paid a very heavy price for those events.

[Holly Goodhead]

What was the motive given at trial?

I've read the siblings were having an incestuous relationship and JC caught them in a compromising position?  Is there any truth in this? 

[John]

What was the motive given at trial?

I've read the siblings were having an incestuous relationship and JC caught them in a compromising position?  Is there any truth in this?

It can't be certain what sparked the violence but João Cipriano (Leonor's brother) had a history of violence and criminal conduct, he had only recently been released on parole in respect of an earlier attempted murder.  It can only be surmised what drink and drug fuelled event took place. Whether Joana returned and found them in a compromising position is merely a theory, only Leonor and João know what actually occurred and they won't say.

What little evidence there is appears to point to the child being knocked about, probably by her uncle, it doesn't take much to kill a child if her head is hit off a door frame. Leonor took the blame initially and claimed that her brother's only involvement was in hiding his niece's body. She later changed this to save her own skin and putting the blame on her brother.     

[Holly Goodhead]

It can't be certain what sparked the violence but João Cipriano (Leonor's brother) had a history of violence and criminal conduct, he had only recently been released on parole in respect of an earlier attempted murder.  It can only be surmised what drink and drug fuelled event took place. Whether Joana returned and found them in a compromising position is merely a theory, only Leonor and João know what actually occurred and they won't say.   

It all sounds very grisly along with the involvement of pigs if true.   

[John]

It all sounds very grisly along with the involvement of pigs if true.   

Just for the record, Leonor Cipriano has a long record of child abandonment while she went off with different men. It was left to family and neighbours to rear her many children. The father of her youngest children provided a home for them but she still let her delinquent brother into the house.

[The General]

Just for the record, Leonor Cipriano has a long record of child abandonment while she went off with different men. It was left to family and neighbours to rear her many children.

I'm quietly confident that the right people were convicted.

[Lace]

You could say that if you ignore the facts.

1. A neighbour sitting at her window SAW the girl return home.
2. Her shoes were in the house.
3. The tins of milk which she was sent to the shop for were in the house.
4. The forensics revealed deep cleaning but blood still remained on the door frame and on shoes.

Did they do a DNA test on the blood to confirm it belonged to Joana?

[John]

I'm quietly confident that the right people were convicted.

I agree, poor Joana never stood a chance. They couldn't even give her a decent funeral.