A Good, Bad or Average Theory What's The Difference?

[Lace]

It is very sad to read that important points in the investigation were ignored.  Also that information was found on scraps of paper littered about.  It took the team two weeks to sort it out.   Amaral was very slap dash in the way he operated.  Though read his book you would think he was the most dedicated Police Officer ever to walk the earth.  According to his wife,  Amaral would work all hours of the day the poor man,  yet that's not what a reporter saw was it?

Poor Madeleine.

[Mr Gray]

It is very sad to read that important points in the investigation were ignored.  Also that information was found on scraps of paper littered about.  It took the team two weeks to sort it out.   Amaral was very slap dash in the way he operated.  Though read his book you would think he was the most dedicated Police Officer ever to walk the earth.  According to his wife,  Amaral would work all hours of the day the poor man,  yet that's not what a reporter saw was it?

Poor Madeleine.

Perhaps he considered those long boozy lunches as work..
He was out till past midnight on the Thursday Maddie was abducted... Long boozy lunches... He must have been under the influence after lunch and permanently hung over

[G-Unit]

It is very sad to read that important points in the investigation were ignored.  Also that information was found on scraps of paper littered about.  It took the team two weeks to sort it out.   Amaral was very slap dash in the way he operated.  Though read his book you would think he was the most dedicated Police Officer ever to walk the earth.  According to his wife,  Amaral would work all hours of the day the poor man,  yet that's not what a reporter saw was it?

Poor Madeleine.

You obviously prefer to believe the Expresso version of events rather than the Correio da Manhã version.

[Mr Gray]

You obviously prefer to believe the Expresso version of events rather than the Correio da Manhã version.

Are there not other sources supporting the scraps of paper claim... That's how you decide what to believe in newspapers... Are there other sources saying the same thing

[The General]

Perhaps he considered those long boozy lunches as work..
He was out till past midnight on the Thursday Maddie was abducted... Long boozy lunches... He must have been under the influence after lunch and permanently hung over

I wonder how under the influence Kate and Gerry were. If they would have been more attentive to their kids, the poor little mites, instead of getting on it, nobody would be casting aspersions on 'sardine-munching, backward plod' getting sozzled.

[Mr Gray]

I wonder how under the influence Kate and Gerry were. If they would have been more attentive to their kids, the poor little mites, instead of getting on it, nobody would be casting aspersions on 'sardine-munching, backward plod' getting sozzled.

That's a valid point... As mine is.  Is it acceptable for officers to have long boozy lunches

[G-Unit]

Are there not other sources supporting the scraps of paper claim... That's how you decide what to believe in newspapers... Are there other sources saying the same thing

If you wish to follow that route feel free. One source was promoted by the UK media and by some forum members. I have supplied another source which casts doubt on the one promoted. I'm content with reminding people that balance is important.

[Mr Gray]

If you wish to follow that route feel free. One source was promoted by the UK media and by some forum members. I have supplied another source which casts doubt on the one promoted. I'm content with reminding people that balance is important.

it's the correct route to go down

Of course balance is important.. So how many sources support each side

[The General]

That's a valid point... As mine is.  Is it acceptable for officers to have long boozy lunches

In the UK? Probably not, but probably happens. In Kingston, Jamaica - probably not, but almost certainly occurs.
I'm sure there's a code of conduct in Portugal PJ, contrary to popular belief, that's adhered to in greater or lesser degrees on an individual basis. Factor in the cultural elements  / lifestyle / permissive society / conditioning / liberalisation / economic factors / training standards / licensing laws / custom and practice / laissez faire attitude?
Don't know. What about France, for all the same reasons above?
What's a 'boozy' lunch? What's the definition? In Moscow that might be half a litre of vodka imbibed quickly and without hesitation (stereotype reference). What response, if any, would you get whilst holidaying in Madagascar? In what state would you expect a local copper to rock up in anywhere?
I would agree that you would expect a certain level of competence, cognisance and conduct as a holidaymaker in an EU country - but there's no suggestion that any of the responders were impaired in any way, not personally.
I know that there's this lazy, unfounded, stereotypical, borderline racist trope that gets bandied about, but usually in a hypocritical manner - us Brits are similarly labelled as hardly being the paragon of cultural, convivial drinking - and probably with good reason. But the reason for the castigation is probably more to do some being unable to rationalise and come to terms with the initial shortcomings of the parenting  - you need someone to blame, right?

[Mr Gray]

In the UK? Probably not, but probably happens. In Kingston, Jamaica - probably not, but almost certainly occurs.
I'm sure there's a code of conduct in Portugal PJ, contrary to popular belief, that's adhered to in greater or lesser degrees on an individual basis. Factor in the cultural elements  / lifestyle / permissive society / conditioning / liberalisation / economic factors / training standards / licensing laws / custom and practice / laissez faire attitude?
Don't know. What about France, for all the same reasons above?
What's a 'boozy' lunch? What's the definition? In Moscow that might be half a litre of vodka imbibed quickly and without hesitation (stereotype reference). What response, if any, would you get whilst holidaying in Madagascar? In what state would you expect a local copper to rock up in anywhere?
I would agree that you would expect a certain level of competence, cognisance and conduct as a holidaymaker in an EU country - but there's no suggestion that any of the responders were impaired in any way, not personally.
I know that there's this lazy, unfounded, stereotypical, borderline racist trope that gets bandied about, but usually in a hypocritical manner - us Brits are similarly labelled as hardly being the paragon of cultural, convivial drinking - and probably with good reason. But the reason for the castigation is probably more to do some being unable to rationalise and come to terms with the initial shortcomings of the parenting  - you need someone to blame, right?

I think the blame is multifactorial

[kizzy]

I think the problem you are having with my post is not that it is "opinion and speculation" but that it portrays with accuracy the facts surrounding Amaral's botched investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

No not at all I didn't read it all only your opening line - I think GA is more your obsession than mine B IMO

Talking about botched - the mcns did a good job of that letting 20 odd people trample round knowing as kmc said she knew Maddie had been abducted.

Its the fact you think you understand the investigation - with all your snips/posts, etc

none of it your own thoughts. if it fits with your agenda - you post it.

Although it all depends on what paper you choose - often they are conflicting.

I think you will have to wait to understand the investigation - because no one knows what they are doing.

As yet no one knows if maddie was abducted - or not even your understanding the so called investigation

Better to wait for it coming from the horse's mouth - and not the unicorns.

[Brietta]

No not at all I didn't read it all only your opening line - I think GA is more your obsession than mine B IMO

Talking about botched - the mcns did a good job of that letting 20 odd people trample round knowing as kmc said she knew Maddie had been abducted.

Its the fact you think you understand the investigation - with all your snips/posts, etc

none of it your own thoughts. if it fits with your agenda - you post it.

Although it all depends on what paper you choose - often they are conflicting.

I think you will have to wait to understand the investigation - because no one knows what they are doing.

As yet no one knows if maddie was abducted - or not even your understanding the so called investigation

Better to wait for it coming from the horse's mouth - and not the unicorns.

You really do have this fixation that the victims of a crime are responsible for securing a crime scene ... at risk of repeating myself but most certainly repeating others with more than a passing acquaintance with investigating a crime ... it is the police who are responsible for securing a crime scene not contributing to it by not wearing gloves and as a result contaminating it by leaving fingerprints; smoking cigarettes and leaving ash behind; allowing police dogs to cast hair.

Sometimes Portuguese newspapers were indeed conflicting particularly when you have master criminals writing a daily column giving the latest on Madeleine's investigation in at least one of them.
I think he may be known as "a source close to the investigation" and there is little doubt he had an agenda going which had little to do with finding Madeleine.

[The General]

You really do have this fixation that the victims of a crime are responsible for securing a crime scene ... at risk of repeating myself but most certainly repeating others with more than a passing acquaintance with investigating a crime ... it is the police who are responsible for securing a crime scene not contributing to it by not wearing gloves and as a result contaminating it by leaving fingerprints; smoking cigarettes and leaving ash behind; allowing police dogs to cast hair.

Sometimes Portuguese newspapers were indeed conflicting particularly when you have master criminals writing a daily column giving the latest on Madeleine's investigation in at least one of them.
I think he may be known as "a source close to the investigation" and there is little doubt he had an agenda going which had little to do with finding Madeleine.

In fairness, I thought they failed to arrive for an inordinate amount of time? Which is it? They arrived promptly, but failed to discharge their duty, or arrived late and found the place 'as if trampled by a herd of buffalo' (Arthur Conan Doyle; A Study in Scarlet)?

[sadie]

In fairness, I thought they failed to arrive for an inordinate amount of time? Which is it? They arrived promptly, but failed to discharge their duty, or arrived late and found the place 'as if trampled by a herd of buffalo' (Arthur Conan Doyle; A Study in Scarlet)?

The GNR arrived very late after being called.  Aparantly they had been called out to a non incident half an hour away.

A few people, included OC members of staff, came into the flat to support kate and Gerry, but hardly any went into the bedroom, is my understanding.     Reading the various statements there were a number of friends who did not go into 5A for one reason or another.  Gerry was out searching and chasing up at main reception, talking to senior staff, Police etc ... and Kate was so distraught that I think it is unrealistic to expect her to think of anything except where was Madeleine?  What had happened to her?

However, IIRC, they did keep the door to Madeleines bedroom closed, so preventing people destroying the scene there.



The major problem, as I see it Mr General, sir, is that the professionals messed up.  The GNR, instead of excluding anyone who came, allowed them in.  They themselves left finger prints (at least one that we know of and were there more indistinct ones?) and there were dog hairs everywhere, and I expect slobber.  But I dont know the slobber bit tbh.
 
Then, of course, we had the finger print lady doing it without gloves!  Now we have mystery pictures of her wearing gloves .... but NO gloves in the initial images seen

In the meanwhile Amaral decided not to go to the scene, but drove off and took himself home.  I have seen it said many times that he never visited the scene and neither did he ever speak to Kate and Gerry


Is that a fair assessment Mr General sir ?






Please correct me if I have any facts wrongly rememberd, with cites.  TY

[G-Unit]

The GNR arrived very late after being called.  Aparantly they had been called out to a non incident half an hour away.

A few people, included OC members of staff, came into the flat to support kate and Gerry, but hardly any went into the bedroom, is my understanding.     Reading the various statements there were a number of friends who did not go into 5A for one reason or another.  Gerry was out searching and chasing up at main reception, talking to senior staff, Police etc ... and Kate was so distraught that I think it is unrealistic to expect her to think of anything except where was Madeleine?  What had happened to her?

However, IIRC, they did keep the door to Madeleines bedroom closed, so preventing people destroying the scene there.



The major problem, as I see it Mr General, sir, is that the professionals messed up.  The GNR, instead of excluding anyone who came, allowed them in.  They themselves left finger prints (at least one that we know of and were there more indistinct ones?) and there were dog hairs everywhere, and I expect slobber.  But I dont know the slobber bit tbh.
 
Then, of course, we had the finger print lady doing it without gloves!  Now we have mystery pictures of her wearing gloves .... but NO gloves in the initial images seen

In the meanwhile Amaral decided not to go to the scene, but drove off and took himself home.  I have seen it said many times that he never visited the scene and neither did he ever speak to Kate and Gerry


Is that a fair assessment Mr General sir ?






Please correct me if I have any facts wrongly rememberd, with cites.  TY

The GNR were called at 22:41 and the two officers arrived at approximately 23:00. Pretty good going if they were 30 minutes away. Why do you feel the need to spread disinformation Sadie?

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