KM's Paperback (PB)

[G-Unit]

Well we know on 3rd May JW claims he chatted with GM around 5A at circa 9 pm.

I think the OC employees at tapas confirmed the various protagonists would leave their seats from time-to-time but I've no idea where the loos were situated to know whether or not they were simply off to the loo or off to check the children.

Just to be precise JW gave the time as between 8:45 and 9:15.

I wonder if GMc flushed the toilet before he left the apartment, with his concerns about noise?

[Robittybob1]

So it's OK to leave a child in an unlocked apt... You don't make a lot if sense

It appears so as long as there is the regular welfare checks on the child.

[G-Unit]

Hi Davel, since you are referring to me, the following:

- although I said ‘exact circumstances’, I did not elaborate on much detail. If that was misleading, I wish to correct it by providing the following:

- the particular visit I was referring to was to a resort in Mauritius for seven nights in December 2017.
- at the time our children were 12 and 10 years old, respectively.
- they preferred to stay in the hotel room and relax, watching satellite television after a busy day filled with activities.
- many families at this particular resort had the same arrangement with their children and presumably other guests, staff etc would have noticed a pattern over the days for different families at the resort.
- the hotel room was on the first floor, not ground level.
- the front door was locked by means of a parental/security code.
- the patio doors were left open from where they could see and hear us and vice versa.
- we all were in cellphone contact, eg. our children would call or whatsapp asking us to come upstairs and bring them down for a milkshake, etc.
- they were not allowed to order room service when we were not present in the room, for the reason that the front door was out of sight and we did not feel comfortable that a stranger/s would have access to the room via that door.
- we made a request at reception that no room service be allowed to our room, unless it was me or my husband requesting it.
- as I have pointed out previously, it should be contextually viewed. Where we live, space is abundant and we are used to dining, sleeping, visiting etc in an urban home space of 3000 square metres.
- on our previous visits to Mauritius, our children accompanied us everywhere, except when they were occupied at their kids’ club. The reason being: we regarded them as too young and dependent to consider that choice. On these visits their ages were 4 and 2; and 8 and 6.
- I certainly do not regard me and my husband as irresponsible parents in the choices we make for our family, rather the opposite of tending to be overprotective with its related issues.
- I would not expect members on the forum to criticise me in the manner, as you have suggested should be done, leveled at the Tapas group.
- in fact, I find your suggestion similar to an inciting incident.

Not related to what the McCanns did in any way whatsoever then. I wonder why it was even mentioned in the first place?

[Mr Gray]

Hi Davel, since you are referring to me, the following:

- although I said ‘exact circumstances’, I did not elaborate on much detail. If that was misleading, I wish to correct it by providing the following:

- the particular visit I was referring to was to a resort in Mauritius for seven nights in December 2017.
- at the time our children were 12 and 10 years old, respectively.
- they preferred to stay in the hotel room and relax, watching satellite television after a busy day filled with activities.
- many families at this particular resort had the same arrangement with their children and presumably other guests, staff etc would have noticed a pattern over the days for different families at the resort.
- the hotel room was on the first floor, not ground level.
- the front door was locked by means of a parental/security code.
- the patio doors were left open from where they could see and hear us and vice versa.
- we all were in cellphone contact, eg. our children would call or whatsapp asking us to come upstairs and bring them down for a milkshake, etc.
- they were not allowed to order room service when we were not present in the room, for the reason that the front door was out of sight and we did not feel comfortable that a stranger/s would have access to the room via that door.
- we made a request at reception that no room service be allowed to our room, unless it was me or my husband requesting it.
- as I have pointed out previously, it should be contextually viewed. Where we live, space is abundant and we are used to dining, sleeping, visiting etc in an urban home space of 3000 square metres.
- on our previous visits to Mauritius, our children accompanied us everywhere, except when they were occupied at their kids’ club. The reason being: we regarded them as too young and dependent to consider that choice. On these visits their ages were 4 and 2; and 8 and 6.
- I certainly do not regard me and my husband as irresponsible parents in the choices we make for our family, rather the opposite of tending to be overprotective with its related issues.
- I would not expect members on the forum to criticise me in the manner, as you have suggested should be done, leveled at the Tapas group.
- in fact, I find your suggestion similar to an inciting incident.

thanks for confirming you stated ...in the exact circumstances....
Based on that i think its quite a valid question to pose why you received no criticism from those who criticise the mccanns.

You also say other families left children alone.....i wonder how old they were... Again on a forum where the mccanns are constantly criticised its interesting to know just how widespread the practice is

[Holly Goodhead]

Just to be precise JW gave the time as between 8:45 and 9:15.

I wonder if GMc flushed the toilet before he left the apartment, with his concerns about noise?

I was going to make a similar point about KM P.74:

Our visits also gave us a convenient opportunity to pop to the loo or, in my case, to pick up an extra cardigan.

The bathroom at 5A was sandwiched between the 2 bedrooms with MM's bed against the wall bathroom side.  I don't want to get too picky here as without physically being there its difficult to know what was noisy and what wasn't and how any sounds travelled.  The wood front door may have been noisy to close and lock but then again flushing the toilet and washing hands afterwards creates noise too?!

[Mr Gray]

Not related to what the McCanns did in any way whatsoever then. I wonder why it was even mentioned in the first place?

If you read the post you will see that anthro originally said she left her children alone in the exact circumstances with no elaboration...on that basis I think my question was quite valid

[Holly Goodhead]

Hi Davel, since you are referring to me, the following:

- although I said ‘exact circumstances’, I did not elaborate on much detail. If that was misleading, I wish to correct it by providing the following:

- the particular visit I was referring to was to a resort in Mauritius for seven nights in December 2017.
- at the time our children were 12 and 10 years old, respectively.
- they preferred to stay in the hotel room and relax, watching satellite television after a busy day filled with activities.
- many families at this particular resort had the same arrangement with their children and presumably other guests, staff etc would have noticed a pattern over the days for different families at the resort.
- the hotel room was on the first floor, not ground level.
- the front door was locked by means of a parental/security code.
- the patio doors were left open from where they could see and hear us and vice versa.
- we all were in cellphone contact, eg. our children would call or whatsapp asking us to come upstairs and bring them down for a milkshake, etc.
- they were not allowed to order room service when we were not present in the room, for the reason that the front door was out of sight and we did not feel comfortable that a stranger/s would have access to the room via that door.
- we made a request at reception that no room service be allowed to our room, unless it was me or my husband requesting it.
- as I have pointed out previously, it should be contextually viewed. Where we live, space is abundant and we are used to dining, sleeping, visiting etc in an urban home space of 3000 square metres.
- on our previous visits to Mauritius, our children accompanied us everywhere, except when they were occupied at their kids’ club. The reason being: we regarded them as too young and dependent to consider that choice. On these visits their ages were 4 and 2; and 8 and 6.
- I certainly do not regard me and my husband as irresponsible parents in the choices we make for our family, rather the opposite of tending to be overprotective with its related issues.
- I would not expect members on the forum to criticise me in the manner, as you have suggested should be done, leveled at the Tapas group.
- in fact, I find your suggestion similar to an inciting incident.

Thanks for the detailed explanation Anthro.

I think the McCann case is unique given the ages of the children, the fact they were left asleep, and more importantly they claim the patio door was unsecured which to some degree is corroborated by others eg PF, MO and JW.

KM insists throughout her PB that the self-imposed childcare arrangement was similar to that provided by MW at other locations but this is simply not the case.  The checking service operated by MW involved personnel listening at secured doors and in the event of any disturbance personnel would contact the parents.  The parents would then return, open up their respective apartments and resettle the children.   

[G-Unit]

If you read the post you will see that anthro originally said she left her children alone in the exact circumstances with no elaboration...on that basis I think my question was quite valid

As the circumstances were actually completely different I wondered why Anthro mentioned it in the first place.

[Mr Gray]

As the circumstances were actually completely different I wondered why Anthro mentioned it in the first place.

Abthro mentions other parents, were doing exactly the same but no mention if childrens ages

[The General]

Abthro mentions other parents, were doing exactly the same but no mention if childrens ages

Totally different context then, as I stated Davros. Kneel before Zod!

[Holly Goodhead]

The law on leaving your children on their own:

https://www.gov.uk/law-on-leaving-your-child-home-alone

The National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To Children:

There might not be a specific legal age to leave children alone but it’s safe to say babies, toddlers and young children should never be left alone, even if it’s just while you pop down the road. Even if they’re sleeping peacefully when you leave they could well wake up and get very upset when you’re not there to look after them. They would not be able to protect themselves in an emergency and may even try to leave the property to find you.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/leaving-child-home-alone

[pathfinder73]

Just to be precise JW gave the time as between 8:45 and 9:15.

I wonder if GMc flushed the toilet before he left the apartment, with his concerns about noise?

He only left the apartment at 20:35 so I don't believe he went to the toilet so no flush

[Erngath]

He only left the apartment at 20:35 so I don't believe he went to the toilet so no flush

Just for clarity.
Are  Gerry`s bladder and bowel functions now being analysed?

[Eleanor]

Just for clarity.
Are  Gerry`s bladder and bowel functions now being analysed?

That'll make a change.

[Anthro]

Hi G-Unit, I initially mentioned it because, in my experience, it is not an unusual practice at holiday resorts where we have been. The week that you book represents a sort or micro-community where you learn people’s names, chat and the children make new friends at the kids’s club. This is how I knew that other parents also left their children in their hotel rooms, because it was mentioned amongst some guests. Or, by simply overhearing someone mentioning their kids are in the hotel room. Where the rooms were and the ages of the children, I cannot recollect that I was ever asking for such detail and/or someone offering that sort of info.

I agree with Davel re. criticism against the McCann’s.