KM's Paperback (PB)

[Brietta]

Why not? She was simply doing what she did from day one. Undermining the PJ, putting her version of events out there and looking for sympathy and donations.

In my opinion the contents of that post are beneath contempt.  Kate's book tells us exactly the state she was in as a direct result of Madeleine's disappearance for which she blamed herself.
Far from undermining anyone let alone the judicial police she could barely function.

Her 'version of events' was that of a witness and again she writes eloquently and very movingly of what happened when she discovered Madeleine gone.

Kate required no donations.  She wrote her book to make money to bolster Madeleine's fund ... and her best seller did that in spades.

Like many another relative of a missing person Kate isn't touting sympathy but she does express gratitude to those who have morally supported those whose actions are on Madeleine behalf and for the hope and inspiration conveyed to her, Gerry and the family by well wishers.

[Brietta]

Very few of which have ever been substantiated or in the words of the Portuguese Supreme Court, they have never been able to prove that they were not involved in the child's mysterious disappearance.  Their conduct was suspicious as was the refusal by their friends to cooperate fully with the investigation. I must say. such a thing is virtually unheard of as the parents and close associates of any missing infant are normally extremely keen to assist the police unless they have something to hide of course.

I think it would be very odd indeed for the parent of a missing child to cooperate with the police in an investigation designed to send them to jail.

In Kate's book the 'tosser' episode describes Kate's realisation that the PJ were out to get her meaning that no-one was actually investigating her child's disappearance and she had become 'the investigation'.
This gave her added strength because of the realisation that without her and Gerry Madeleine was not being looked for ... and as events have proved in retrospect that is exactly what happened ... until the police reviews of 2011 they and therefore Madeleine were on their own. 

[jassi]

Given your low opinion of Portuguese justice, if they had wanted to send to McCanns to jail, they would have done so, irrespective of evidence.

[Mr Gray]

Given your low opinion of Portuguese justice, if they had wanted to send to McCanns to jail, they would have done so, irrespective of evidence.

had they been portuguese and poor....I think what happened in the cipriano case would have happened again

[Brietta]

Given your low opinion of Portuguese justice, if they had wanted to send to McCanns to jail, they would have done so, irrespective of evidence.

Actually it wasn't for the want of trying; Kate wondered why anyone would give Amaral and his theories the time of day given his criminal conviction for falsifying documents resulting from the torture of the mother of another missing child'

At the time Kate wrote her book Joana Cipriano was still missing and her mother was still in jail having been convicted of her murder ... oh ... and no-one was looking for Joana because she was officially dead.

Even with no proof of Madeleine's death such as the 'proof' which convicted Leonor Cipriano of murder ... only Kate and Gerry McCann's persistence kept the search for Madeleine going.
No-one looked for Joana.

[Wonderfulspam]

Actually it wasn't for the want of trying; Kate wondered why anyone would give Amaral and his theories the time of day given his criminal conviction for falsifying documents resulting from the torture of the mother of another missing child'

At the time Kate wrote her book Joana Cipriano was still missing and her mother was still in jail having been convicted of her murder ... oh ... and no-one was looking for Joana because she was officially dead.

Even with no proof of Madeleine's death such as the 'proof' which convicted Leonor Cipriano of murder ... only Kate and Gerry McCann's persistence kept the search for Madeleine going.
No-one looked for Joana.

Joana's mother never bothered to call the police & tell them her daughter was missing.
That should tell you something.

[pathfinder73]

During one of the interrogations, João, who has mood shifts, ends up confessing voluntarily to having beaten Joana, who hit a wall with her head and collapsed dead on the floor. He says he was having s.e.x with Leonor while the girl had been out on her errand, but Joana returned and saw them. She said she would tell Leandro about what she saw. The child tried to run out of the house, but was dragged back in by João and Leonor. Leonor slapped her, and then João also slapped the girl. The child flew against a wall, bumped her head and dropped dead on the floor. He then cut up her body and stored it in plastic bags in the family's freezer. Cristóvão, the detective who is interrogating him, asks some specific questions about the process of cutting. João's answers chillingly detail the process, including correct information about the difficulty in separating certain joints. He also tells Cristóvão that all 4 adults - João, Leonor, Leandro and Carlos - ended up knowing that Joana was dead, as he and Leonor showed the bags in the freezer to Leandro and Carlos when they arrived home, later that evening. João later repeats his confession in the presence of his lawyer, and duly signs it.

The detectives return to Figueira, now with a forensics team, to check whether the information that João has given them yields some traces of evidence. Their discoveries turn out to be much more than they bargained for. They discover the orange flip-flops that Joana was supposedly wearing the evening she vanished. Then they turn the uv light to the wall where João told them the child had hit her head before collapsing dead on the floor.

Her face is clearly 'drawn' on the wall, also two small hands that left a trace that goes down the wall, showing Joana's last movement. They also discover the prints of her hands on the frame of the house's outer door, that were left there at the moment when she tried to escape. João had told Cristóvão how Joana had tried to cling to the door frame, and they had to pull her back in by her legs. Everything is photographed.

[Mr Gray]

During one of the interrogations, João, who has mood shifts, ends up confessing voluntarily to having beaten Joana, who hit a wall with her head and collapsed dead on the floor. He says he was having s.e.x with Leonor while the girl had been out on her errand, but Joana returned and saw them. She said she would tell Leandro about what she saw. The child tried to run out of the house, but was dragged back in by João and Leonor. Leonor slapped her, and then João also slapped the girl. The child flew against a wall, bumped her head and dropped dead on the floor. He then cut up her body and stored it in plastic bags in the family's freezer. Cristóvão, the detective who is interrogating him, asks some specific questions about the process of cutting. João's answers chillingly detail the process, including correct information about the difficulty in separating certain joints. He also tells Cristóvão that all 4 adults - João, Leonor, Leandro and Carlos - ended up knowing that Joana was dead, as he and Leonor showed the bags in the freezer to Leandro and Carlos when they arrived home, later that evening. João later repeats his confession in the presence of his lawyer, and duly signs it.

The detectives return to Figueira, now with a forensics team, to check whether the information that João has given them yields some traces of evidence. Their discoveries turn out to be much more than they bargained for. They discover the orange flip-flops that Joana was supposedly wearing the evening she vanished. Then they turn the uv light to the wall where João told them the child had hit her head before collapsing dead on the floor.

Her face is clearly 'drawn' on the wall, also two small hands that left a trace that goes down the wall, showing Joana's last movement. They also discover the prints of her hands on the frame of the house's outer door, that were left there at the moment when she tried to escape. João had told Cristóvão how Joana had tried to cling to the door frame, and they had to pull her back in by her legs. Everything is photographed.

all absolute rubbish imo...where did this come from...what evidence is there that is true...we know that amaral was convicted for lying....the other detectives tried also lied when they claimed cipriano fell down the stairs..

if you want to believe the PJ thats up to you...I dont believe a word they say

[Brietta]

all absolute rubbish imo...where did this come from...what evidence is there that is true...we know that amaral was convicted for lying....the other detectives tried also lied when they claimed cipriano fell down the stairs..

if you want to believe the PJ thats up to you...I dont believe a word they say

I think it may come from here ... An excerpt from Astro's summary of Cristovão's book:
  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3050.msg114889#msg114889 with Carana doing an excellent forensic analysis to debunk the lot.

Worth a read.

[Wonderfulspam]

all absolute rubbish imo...where did this come from...what evidence is there that is true...we know that amaral was convicted for lying....the other detectives tried also lied when they claimed cipriano fell down the stairs..

if you want to believe the PJ thats up to you...I dont believe a word they say

You prefer to believe that a mother wouldn't report her 8 year old daughter as missing when she didn't come home one night.

[Mr Gray]

You prefer to believe that a mother wouldn't report her 8 year old daughter as missing when she didn't come home one night.

I dont beleive anything said on this case without supporting evidence......the PJ claimed there was blood...what they failed to do was take a sample of this blood and have it analysed. Was there any blood or did the pj lie...the blood found in the fridge wasnt even confirmed as human...could have been animal. Cipriano was convicted without any forensic evidence despite calims by the pj....conbvicted on a confession beaten out of her...justice portuguese style

[Wonderfulspam]

I dont beleive anything said on this case without supporting evidence......the PJ claimed there was blood...what they failed to do was take a sample of this blood and have it analysed. Was there any blood or did the pj lie...the blood found in the fridge wasnt even confirmed as human...could have been animal. Cipriano was convicted without any forensic evidence despite calims by the pj....conbvicted on a confession beaten out of her...justice portuguese style

There's no point getting upset about it.
It isn't going to bring Joana back.

[Mr Gray]

There's no point getting upset about it.
It isn't going to bring Joana back.

im not in the slightest upset....im an observer....and thers no proof shes dead

[Wonderfulspam]

im not in the slightest upset....im an observer....and thers no proof shes dead

But it's obvious she is.

Why else wouldn't her mother report her missing pronto?

[jassi]

The Courts have declared that she was murdered, therefore she is dead.