Author Topic: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?  (Read 38537 times)

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Offline John

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2019, 09:46:21 PM »
According to who....

Read the press reports from the time, they are all there somewhere in the Cipriano threads.

Leonor Cipriano freely confessed to the murder of her daughter long before she was beaten whilst on remand.

She told the PJ that she had accidentally killed the girl when she hit her head while being slapped.  She added that her brother João who was in the house at the time took the girl outside and hid her.

This was repeated to the magistrate at her arraignment and that is why she was remanded in custody whilst João got bail.

Her later uncoerced confession claiming that it was João who took the girl away to sell her and that she had been killed when it all went wrong is another matter.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 09:48:44 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2019, 09:51:01 PM »
Read the press reports from the time, they are all there somewhere in the Cipriano threads.

Leonor Cipriano freely confessed to the murder of her daughter long before she was beaten whilst on remand.

She told the PJ that she had accidentally killed the girl when she hit her head while being slapped.  She added that her brother João who was in the house at the time took the girl outside and hid her.

This was repeated to the magistrate at her arraignment and that is why she was remanded in custody whilst João got bail.

Her later uncoerced confession claiming that it was João who took the girl away to sell her and that she had been killed when it all went wrong is another matter.

I've looked on the threads and seen none of these reports... I'm sure the verdict of the court was she was tortured to confess... I'll have a look tomorrow

Offline John

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2019, 09:51:29 PM »
Mother of daughter confesses death by accident!

Several hours of interrogation led to the confession of the crime. First João (John) Cipriano took participation in the concealment of the corpse of his niece, after the mother of Joan admitted responsibility for the murder, committed against a minor, on the night of 12th of this month, at the house where they lived in Figueira.



September 26, 2004
By: Jose Carlos Eusebio / John Mendes / MB


An accidental death, claimed the woman before the judge of instruction of the Court of Portimão, Ana Soares, who ordered the arrest of the woman and gave the man his freedom with the obligation to report daily to the authorities.
The coercive measures were only known at approximately 3:00 a.m. yesterday morning, at a time when dozens of local people were still concentrated at the door of the Court (some remained there throughout the day).

According to BBC News, the murdered girl's uncle, João Cipriano, who was the first to be heard by the judge (he had been interrogated since mid-afternoon until 21:30), initially admitted the crime but later, when the statements were recorded in written form, the individual just by pointed his finger at his sister, the mother of Joan.
"It is with my sister" - the phrase was used again and again by the individual, when confronted with issues related to how the murder had taken the child, referring all the explanations in the case to Leonor Cipriano.

João Cipriano only acknowledged that he helped his sister (upon request) to get rid of the body of Joana, after the girl was dead. He insisted that the body was placed in a field close to home, but stressed that he was not sure where, because "it was dark.". However, Joana's mother, Leonor Cipriano, who was heard between 21:30 and about 00:00, came to confess to the murder of her daughter. The woman however justified that it was an accident, saying she had slapped the child but she had struck her head on a wall, becoming unconscious.

Leonor Cipriano said she was bewildered and panicked at the prospect of killing her daughter, decided to wrap the girl's body in a cloth and put her in a plastic bag. She then asked her brother for help to dispose of the body's of her own daughter, which she said came to pass at a site near the house. Like her uncle, the mother of Joana will also use the excuse of the dark, as well as the state of panic that she would find, not knowing where to put her daughter's body. This is indeed the reason given by both to the fact that the clues provided so far to the PJ as to where the body may be proved completely false.

Lately, the mother of Joana gave the impression of being psychologically affected by the case and often "does not say anything to anything," according to the expression used by a source close to the investigation.

After hearing the two suspects, Judge of Criminal retired to decide on the enforcement measures to be applied to the process by recalling the mother and uncle of Joana about 1:30 a.m.. It was then communicated to Leonor Cipriano that she would remain in custody while João Cipriano would be freed on the basis that he presents himself daily to the authorities (GNR Silves).


www.cmjornal.xl.pt/noticia.aspx?channelid=00000009-0000-0000-0000-000000000009&contentid=00132134-3333-3333-3333-000000132134

NB  Original Report removed by Correio da Manhã.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5783.msg205303;topicseen#msg205303
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 09:53:46 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2019, 10:19:55 PM »
Mother of daughter confesses death by accident!

Several hours of interrogation led to the confession of the crime. First João (John) Cipriano took participation in the concealment of the corpse of his niece, after the mother of Joan admitted responsibility for the murder, committed against a minor, on the night of 12th of this month, at the house where they lived in Figueira.



September 26, 2004
By: Jose Carlos Eusebio / John Mendes / MB


An accidental death, claimed the woman before the judge of instruction of the Court of Portimão, Ana Soares, who ordered the arrest of the woman and gave the man his freedom with the obligation to report daily to the authorities.
The coercive measures were only known at approximately 3:00 a.m. yesterday morning, at a time when dozens of local people were still concentrated at the door of the Court (some remained there throughout the day).

According to BBC News, the murdered girl's uncle, João Cipriano, who was the first to be heard by the judge (he had been interrogated since mid-afternoon until 21:30), initially admitted the crime but later, when the statements were recorded in written form, the individual just by pointed his finger at his sister, the mother of Joan.
"It is with my sister" - the phrase was used again and again by the individual, when confronted with issues related to how the murder had taken the child, referring all the explanations in the case to Leonor Cipriano.

João Cipriano only acknowledged that he helped his sister (upon request) to get rid of the body of Joana, after the girl was dead. He insisted that the body was placed in a field close to home, but stressed that he was not sure where, because "it was dark.". However, Joana's mother, Leonor Cipriano, who was heard between 21:30 and about 00:00, came to confess to the murder of her daughter. The woman however justified that it was an accident, saying she had slapped the child but she had struck her head on a wall, becoming unconscious.

Leonor Cipriano said she was bewildered and panicked at the prospect of killing her daughter, decided to wrap the girl's body in a cloth and put her in a plastic bag. She then asked her brother for help to dispose of the body's of her own daughter, which she said came to pass at a site near the house. Like her uncle, the mother of Joana will also use the excuse of the dark, as well as the state of panic that she would find, not knowing where to put her daughter's body. This is indeed the reason given by both to the fact that the clues provided so far to the PJ as to where the body may be proved completely false.

Lately, the mother of Joana gave the impression of being psychologically affected by the case and often "does not say anything to anything," according to the expression used by a source close to the investigation.

After hearing the two suspects, Judge of Criminal retired to decide on the enforcement measures to be applied to the process by recalling the mother and uncle of Joana about 1:30 a.m.. It was then communicated to Leonor Cipriano that she would remain in custody while João Cipriano would be freed on the basis that he presents himself daily to the authorities (GNR Silves).


www.cmjornal.xl.pt/noticia.aspx?channelid=00000009-0000-0000-0000-000000000009&contentid=00132134-3333-3333-3333-000000132134

NB  Original Report removed by Correio da Manhã.


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5783.msg205303;topicseen#msg205303

Could I ask you where you found this, article... It looks, decidedly dodgy.
It's, a Portuguese story in a, Portuguese paper... Why are the quoting the BBC.

Offline sadie

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #79 on: November 27, 2019, 11:48:53 PM »
I cannot get the exact quote at the moment, but I’m with Sadie on this one.

It seems everyone is fixated (including me) on how Madeleine left her room and the apartment.

However she left, authorities (most of them) consider it an abduction. This is as far as I know. Sadie’s premise and in situ research, bring an important dimension to Madeleine’s case to me. I do realise many other members have similar firsthand information. And I respect that. Ultimately, Madeleine is somewhere.

Thank you Anthro.  Very kind and supportive of you. 

It is good to have another open minded thinker on forum.  I am fed up of being on my own.  I am too old and tired for a battle on my own against a group (always a group) who are determined to ridicule everything I say.


I appreciate your thoughtful words Anthro.


One of my major problems is that I am not computer savvie.  All this turqouise/ lavender saga could have been cut dead early on, had I known how to post the image, from the official BBC youtube , of the detective carrying my lavender coloured folder.  There would have been an instant comparison between the two images of my folder.

Members generally cannot be bothered to open up youtubes, then find the exact bit, for comparison.  Too much trouble !

Offline sadie

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2019, 12:32:39 AM »
This will be the photo you are looking for Sadie. Definitely not Madeleine and definitely not Joana.



That is not the one, John

The comparison photo showing Jaona standing and very nicely turned out ready for school IIRC is the photo I want.  Last time I looked that photo had seemingly been removed from the Joana section of this forum, and i could no longer find it on the internet.


The missing photo shows that Joanas inner calves are poorly developed.  And her legs fit uneasily into her ankles, witgh rather a flat footed look.  The photo above which you posted shows similarly poorly developed inside lower legs.  The feet also look a bit flat footed and the ankles awkward



Can you please find the missing photo?   TY

Offline The General

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2019, 07:38:39 AM »
That is not the one, John

The comparison photo showing Jaona standing and very nicely turned out ready for school IIRC is the photo I want.  Last time I looked that photo had seemingly been removed from the Joana section of this forum, and i could no longer find it on the internet.


The missing photo shows that Joanas inner calves are poorly developed.  And her legs fit uneasily into her ankles, witgh rather a flat footed look.  The photo above which you posted shows similarly poorly developed inside lower legs.  The feet also look a bit flat footed and the ankles awkward



Can you please find the missing photo?   TY
May I just clarify then. You think this is a photo of Madeleine and Joana?
Or at least you believe they're being kept together?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 08:35:42 AM by The General »
Subject Matter Expert - Hobos.

Offline Anthro

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #82 on: November 28, 2019, 08:52:56 AM »
Is this the one you are referring to, Sadie?

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #83 on: November 28, 2019, 09:07:28 AM »
No-one seems to have bothered about an age progressed image for JC?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline jassi

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #84 on: November 28, 2019, 09:17:02 AM »
No-one seems to have bothered about an age progressed image for JC?

Why should they?
Apart from a few on here who like to use it as a weapon against Amaral, I don't suppose anyone else is really bothered
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 09:29:03 AM by Holly Goodhead »
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #85 on: November 28, 2019, 09:28:39 AM »
Why should they?
Apart from a few on here who like to use it as a weapon against Amaral, I don't suppose anyone else is really bothered

Well as I understand it LC maintains JC disappeared?  And I was just attempting to highlight the resources deployed by the McCanns on MM as opposed to those deployed on JC.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Brietta

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #86 on: November 28, 2019, 10:02:27 AM »
A 'confession' was forced from Joana Cipriano's mother during interrogation.  No-one was looking for Joana because she was officially dead.
A 'confession' was not forced from Madeleine McCann's mother and Madeleine's official status was missing.

Did the Portuguese police link these two disappearances?  I don't think it was in their interest and neither were they interested to do so.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Anthro

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #87 on: November 28, 2019, 11:29:43 AM »
‘No sh1t Sherlock  @)(++(*’ Jassi’

If this is your response to ‘Madeleine is somewhere’, one has to wonder what the rest of your life looks like.


Offline jassi

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #88 on: November 28, 2019, 11:40:46 AM »
‘No sh1t Sherlock  @)(++(*’ Jassi’

If this is your response to ‘Madeleine is somewhere’, one has to wonder what the rest of your life looks like.


It was my response to you stating the bl**dy obvious.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?
« Reply #89 on: November 28, 2019, 11:45:51 AM »
A 'confession' was forced from Joana Cipriano's mother during interrogation.  No-one was looking for Joana because she was officially dead.
A 'confession' was not forced from Madeleine McCann's mother and Madeleine's official status was missing.

Did the Portuguese police link these two disappearances?  I don't think it was in their interest and neither were they interested to do so.

The mother was allegedly beaten a day after her confession so no beating happened to get a confession. Sadly you will never see Joana again and the police know who is responsible - the mother and uncle.

"For the Defense of four of the five accused inspectors, it would not make any sense the policeman in question to beat the suspect to get a confession, even because "both of them had already admitted that they were responsible for Joana's death", said the lawyer António Pragal Colaço."





Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.