Is the disappearance of MM connected to other reported crimes on Algarve?

[Holly Goodhead]

If she’d already confessed why was she tortured by the police and why did she retract her confession later and why are you an ardent supporter of the Portuguese police no matter what evidence exists to show that they are at least as likely to be involved in miscarriages of justice as UK police (who you seem to have unlimited contempt for)?

I thought the police accused of torture were found not guilty?

[Mr Gray]

I thought the police accused of torture were found not guilty?

The court ruled that torture had taken place by the PJ.   ....they were adjudged to have lied at the trial to try and cover it up.  Cipriano was unable to identify her attackers as she had a bag placed on her head.. The officers were found not guilty on the basis it was impossible to prove who carried out the torture

Anaral was found guilty of false testimony... Lying to the court... To cover up the torture

Cipriano was judged to have lied about which policemen beat her.. Although it was accepted she was beaten... She received a further prison sentence for this

[Holly Goodhead]

The court ruled that torture had taken place by the PJ.   ....they were adjudged to have lied at the trial to try and cover it up.  Cipriano was unable to identify her attackers as she had a bag placed on her head.. The officers were found not guilty on the basis it was impossible to prove who carried out the torture

Why didn't defence lawyers get the convictions overturned? 

[Mr Gray]

Why didn't defence lawyers get the convictions overturned?

Which defence lawyers

According to a sceptic Portuguese poster here the Portuguese courts never admit to being wrong and there's never been a miscarriage of justice... Sounds bizarre but that's what he posted

[Brietta]

I thought the police accused of torture were found not guilty?

Yet the court ruled that Leonor Cipriano had been tortured at that time and at that place when adding to her prison sentence for perjury: not even you could dream up anything quite so preposterous.

Oh ... not forgetting that Amaral's suspended sentence for perjury was in relation to falsifying documents relevant to his testimony supporting the accused in this torture trial.

All convoluted ...then so was the Alice in Wonderland story which was also quite dark at times.

[Holly Goodhead]

Oh but Joana has been seen again, in Morocco.
Can't you tell, by the ankles?

A phenomenon seems to exist whereby when small children disappear they are 'sighted' all over the place eg: Beaumont Children (Oz), Ben Needham (Kos) and MM (Portugal). And yet when adults disappear, with the exception of Lord Lucan, eg Suzy Lamplugh, Claudia Lawrence and Corrie McKeague we don't seem to have the same 'sightings'!?

Could the reason for this be that small children are less distinguishable and changing? 

[Holly Goodhead]

Which defence lawyers

According to a sceptic Portuguese poster here the Portuguese courts never admit to being wrong and there's never been a miscarriage of justice... Sounds bizarre but that's what he posted

Portugal is a member of the EU? Article 6 Rights To A Fair Trial.

[Mr Gray]

Portugal is a member of the EU? Article 6 Rights To A Fair Trial.

Perhaps if she found a lawyer willing to take on her case she could have, a very good case

But the six month deadline passed many years ago

Being part of the EU isn't relevant

[Holly Goodhead]

Yet the court ruled that Leonor Cipriano had been tortured at that time and at that place when adding to her prison sentence for perjury: not even you could dream up anything quite so preposterous.

Oh ... not forgetting that Amaral's suspended sentence for perjury was in relation to falsifying documents relevant to his testimony supporting the accused in this torture trial.

All convoluted ...then so was the Alice in Wonderland story which was also quite dark at times.

Since when does thinking/asking amount to dreaming?

Anyway can I have a cite please for the court case into the torture.  And can someone explain why the defence lawyers did not seek to have the convictions overturned? 

[Brietta]

Why didn't defence lawyers get the convictions overturned?

There are some informative posts in this thread http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2853.msg97862#msg97862 which may give you a flavour of the times and are well worth a read.

Incidentally, was it Luz whose post starts the thread who claimed that there are no miscarriages of justice in Portugal?

[Mr Gray]

Since when does thinking/asking amount to dreaming?

Anyway can I have a cite please for the court case into the torture.  And can someone explain why the defence lawyers did not seek to have the convictions overturned?

I've got the whole judgement at home on my pc..
There was an appeal... It was unsuccessful

[Mr Gray]

There are some informative posts in this thread http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2853.msg97862#msg97862 which may give you a flavour of the times and are well worth a read.

Incidentally, was it Luz whose post starts the thread who claimed that there are no miscarriages of justice in Portugal?

No it was Montclair... Who was quite a, well informed poster

[Holly Goodhead]

I've got the whole judgement at home on my pc..
There was an appeal... It was unsuccessful

So there must have been some other evidence against LC other than a confession whilst being tortured?

[Brietta]

Since when does thinking/asking amount to dreaming?

Anyway can I have a cite please for the court case into the torture.  And can someone explain why the defence lawyers did not seek to have the convictions overturned?

I think it is rather obvious that there are many comparisons to be made between Joana and Madeleine's cases not least the short distance between the places the children disappeared from.

Do you think those who prosecuted Joana's mother for her death and who endeavoured to pull the same stunt with Madeleine's mother were going to make that connection and check it out.

Do you think they were going to check out cases of assaults on children in the Algarve in relation to connections to Madeleine and Joana.  Do you think they didn't because they didn't want to find any.  After all they had speedily "solved" Joana's case to their satisfaction.

[Mr Gray]

So there must have been some other evidence against LC other than a confession whilst being tortured?

From what, I have read no... There was blood found in the fridge... But it was never tested for dna and as I recall may even have been animal... Yet the court admitted it as a proven fact... I don't think there was, any real evidence
There was also a confession by her brother. Confessions in Portugal are not admissible unless repeated in court.. The prosecution played a video..
It's been discussed ad nauseam... The conviction is, a disgrace