Dr Totman: Apartment block stayed in and direction walked

[barrier]

Yes I'm sure all the 8 families were spoken with but I don't see how the other 7 families could corroborate 'Tannerman'.

I agree 'Tannerman' has been eliminated but that will not stop some wanting to make more of it!

Redwood wouldn't have been doing his job properly unless he had tannermans  story checked out would he?

[Holly Goodhead]

Three sources available.Files,PJ,OG.

Mark Rowley 2017:So that phone data is always something we will look at and we wouldn’t have had it available if the Portuguese had not got hold of it at the time so we need to be careful about criticism. But we had
the data available and we worked with the Portuguese and that was part of the background to do with
phone data and various sightings. There was enough there to say, not to prove the case, but there
was something worth looking at in more detail and that’s what we did.

But telecomm providers and law enforcement would not provide an individuals phone data to someone who wasn't working in a professional capacity?  What evidence exists showing Heriberto was working in a professional capacity whereby he was able to obtain personal data?

[Holly Goodhead]

Redwood wouldn't have been doing his job properly unless he had tannermans  story checked out would he?

Yes I see what you mean but I'm not sure the other families could corroborate other than obviously Mrs T and Weinbergers.  The crèche records would obviously show time children were checked in and out along with the nannies recollections.

[barrier]

But telecomm providers and law enforcement would not provide an individuals phone data to someone who wasn't working in a professional capacity?  What evidence exists showing Heriberto was working in a professional capacity whereby he was able to obtain personal data?

Quite agree,Need to check something out,will get back to you.

[Holly Goodhead]

And I don't find that news item credible, until and unless someone comes up with the mechanics whereby the Totmans were informed of the Tannerman sighting in a timescale that allowed them to come forward to the local police.

And for whatever reason the T9 were unaware of this.

Is the Find Madeleine site still promoting Tannerman?

I don't think it really matters if it was Dr T or not.  Surely the point is that 'Tannerman' has been eliminated by the detective who was leading OG:

One of the things that we picked up very quickly was the fact that there was a night crèche that was operating from the main Ocean Club reception – and  8 families had left 11 children in there – and one particular family we spoke to us gave us information that was really interesting and exciting. In fact, I would say it was – it was a revelation moment when, having discussed with them what hey were doing on the night, they themselves believed that they could be the Tanner sighting.

I believe 'Tannerman' is still on the 'Find Madeleine' site.  Hardly surprising when at the time KM's PB was published she was convinced he was MM's abductor.  What would she fill the void with if she conceded? 

[barrier]

But telecomm providers and law enforcement would not provide an individuals phone data to someone who wasn't working in a professional capacity?  What evidence exists showing Heriberto was working in a professional capacity whereby he was able to obtain personal data?

Quite agree,Need to check something out,will get back to you.

I'm not sure he did,Biltons piece for the bbc on the 10 yr panorama special doesn't say he did. Listen in @ 38:30 for a few minutes and make your own mind up.

[Eleanor]

I'm not sure he did,Biltons piece for the bbc on the 10 yr panorama special doesn't say he did. Listen in @ 38:30 for a few minutes and make your own mind up.

Thank You.  He didn't.  The call information is available On Line.

[ShiningInLuz]

I don't think it really matters if it was Dr T or not.  Surely the point is that 'Tannerman' has been eliminated by the detective who was leading OG:

One of the things that we picked up very quickly was the fact that there was a night crèche that was operating from the main Ocean Club reception – and  8 families had left 11 children in there – and one particular family we spoke to us gave us information that was really interesting and exciting. In fact, I would say it was – it was a revelation moment when, having discussed with them what hey were doing on the night, they themselves believed that they could be the Tanner sighting.

I believe 'Tannerman' is still on the 'Find Madeleine' site.  Hardly surprising when at the time KM's PB was published she was convinced he was MM's abductor.  What would she fill the void with if she conceded?

I care little if it was Totman or not.

The core point is that Tannerman was going the wrong way!

Even Jane Tanner said that in her rogatory.

Redwood got a lot of things wrong on his shift.  It wasn't his finest hour.  I hope!

[pathfinder73]

Yes I see what you mean but I'm not sure the other families could corroborate other than obviously Mrs T and Weinbergers.  The crèche records would obviously show time children were checked in and out along with the nannies recollections.

Some think it was Dawn Bullen who arrived at the creche that night and informed them about Maddy's disappearance.

"That on 3rd May at about 22.05 she was working at the Mini Club, at the "dinner time period" together with colleagues Charlotte and Amy, when a female individual arrived, whose name she does not know, just that she was the mother of a child there (belonging to Toddlers 2), being a guest who was staying at the resort and who left at the end of the week, who told her that a girl called "Maddie" has disappeared, and that the girl's parents needed help in looking for her."

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JACQUELINE_WILLIAMS.htm

Mr M Carroll, Ms D Bullen, Master O Carroll(2) - he was in Toddlers 2.

[Eleanor]

I care little if it was Totman or not.

The core point is that Tannerman was going the wrong way!

Even Jane Tanner said that in her rogatory.

Redwood got a lot of things wrong on his shift.  It wasn't his finest hour.  I hope!

I suspect that Redwood simply didn't understand or know anything about the layout of Praia da Luz.

The problem seems to have been the time lapse between Jane Tanner seeing this man at about 9.15 and The Smith Sighting at around 10pm on his way towards the beach.

This could be explained by the arranging of a pick up because the abductor won't have known if he was going to be successful until he had done it.  He would then need to inform the pick up person and lurk around for a short time.

[Anthro]

Jane Tanner described the bottoms in her rog. They were different.

I could really think was, erm, a turn-up of some description.  And I don’t know whether this made it into my statement, but there was, and this is the thing that convinces me it was her, there was, erm, sort of the pyjamas were, there was some sort of, I thought it was a turn-up, but some sort of design on the bottom of the pyjamas.
I thought I saw pink pyjamas and I thought I could see colours but I don’t know, it was fairly orange so I don’t know.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

The bottom bits are orange.

Thank you for this. What about the frilly bottom as opposed to dr Totman’s child’s ribbed one?

[Angelo222]

Jane Tanner described the bottoms in her rog. They were different.

I could really think was, erm, a turn-up of some description.  And I don’t know whether this made it into my statement, but there was, and this is the thing that convinces me it was her, there was, erm, sort of the pyjamas were, there was some sort of, I thought it was a turn-up, but some sort of design on the bottom of the pyjamas.
I thought I saw pink pyjamas and I thought I could see colours but I don’t know, it was fairly orange so I don’t know.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

The bottom bits are orange.

It would be interesting to know if Jane had seen Maddie in her PJs previously?

[pathfinder73]

I suspect that Redwood simply didn't understand or know anything about the layout of Praia da Luz.

The problem seems to have been the time lapse between Jane Tanner seeing this man at about 9.15 and The Smith Sighting at around 10pm on his way towards the beach.

This could be explained by the arranging of a pick up because the abductor won't have known if he was going to be successful until he had done it.  He would then need to inform the pick up person and lurk around for a short time.

He obviously had a hair cut in between and tried a different carrying style

So the things that I’m happy, that are still in my head, that still stick in my head is the hair and it was longer, it was sort of longish and, erm, I don’t know how to (inaudible), but each, each, almost the hair was long, the bits of hair were long, so it was long into the neck.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. Martin Smith

Short hair, brown in colour. Peter Smith

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

[Angelo222]

I suspect that Redwood simply didn't understand or know anything about the layout of Praia da Luz.

The problem seems to have been the time lapse between Jane Tanner seeing this man at about 9.15 and The Smith Sighting at around 10pm on his way towards the beach.

This could be explained by the arranging of a pick up because the abductor won't have known if he was going to be successful until he had done it.  He would then need to inform the pick up person and lurk around for a short time.

My own belief is that the man seen by the Smiths was heading for the medical centre but when he got there it was closed so he walked on past the Smiths so as to not attract unwanted attention to both himself and the child he was carrying.

For those who are unfamiliar with my theory, I believe the man had earlier knocked Maddie down outside her parents apartment.  I think Totman was a red herring and unconnected to the man the Smiths encountered.

[pathfinder73]

It would be interesting to know if Jane had seen Maddie in her PJs previously?

I would not have thought so because she would not have entered their apartment at night that week. I don't think Jane would have entered apartment 5A until after the disappearance. We know David entered hours before the disappearance which was different from the norm.

Everybody would have been saying to Jane that must have been Maddy so she started believing that was the truth so of course she is going to think they were Maddy's pyjamas and so things can change to fit that view. She did know that the bottom bits of the pyjamas were different in some way and Totman's pyjamas have different coloured bottom bits and they were orange.