White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4

[Holly Goodhead]

I would say that people who follow true crime cases and who are interested in MOJ's are not a good representation of the population!

I understand true crime books are among the most popular but I agree most do not extend their interest beyond this. 

[Holly Goodhead]

I know I am being pedantic. But the phone call is an important part of the investigation.imo

Land lines in 1984  would have details of calls in the billing statement.

It seems a bit far fetched for a phone call to be abruptly ended from JB's side with no explanation, It would have had to be hung up if, when redialing the other phone, it means the person was still on a call- hence the engaged tone.

IF we are to believe that NB hung up- then the line would not be engaged when JB 'tried ' to call back for more details?

... how much more details would you need if someone calls you to say  someone has gone nuts  -has the gun?

I doubt very much that NB would call his son if he was terrified for his and his family's safety. He would have dialed police directly on 999.  Why waste a phone call to son? what was he expected to do anyway?


I stand by my claim there was no phone call from NB to JB.

The sort of phone data available today did not exist in 1985.

By all accounts the Bamber's kept SC's mental illness private.  NB was a local magistrate who kept a number of firearms on his property none of which were kept in accordance with the law.  WHF was very remote if NB called EP would they be able to locate it quickly?  By calling JB it was getting him in the loop. Evidence exists the farm was growing opium poppies which no-one can account for.

A tel engineer was called at trial:

68. There was no evidence of telephone billing information of the sort which would be available these days. There was, however, expert evidence called as to the effect of a telephone call having been made from White House Farm to Goldhanger which was then abandoned by the caller with the receiver being left off the cradle, as claimed by the appellant. If such a sequence had occurred, the telephone link would have remained open either until the handset at White House Farm was replaced or until the handset at Goldhanger had been replaced and left in position for a period which could vary from 1 to 2 minutes, when an automatic interruption of the link would take place. Until one or other of these events, the appellant would have been unable to make any call from the Goldhanger telephone.

[mrswah]

Yes, I agree with that. I guess we could be described as 'murder nurds'    - although this is really the only case I follow.

I follow quite a few----so I must, surely, qualify for the "murder nerd" description!

What, in particular, sparked your interest in this case, Caroline?

[Holly Goodhead]

I am shocked you still hold such a firm belief Holly given that only Jeremy Bamber had the inside knowledge and wherewithal, the skill and physical strength to have carried out these murders. There isn't a single scrap of exculpatory evidence despite the passage of almost 35 years. Don't you think that just a teensy weensy bit odd?

I disagree but take comfort in knowing I'm still your favourite moderator 

[mrswah]

Exactly, not many people came forward to refer to him as 'such a nice boy'.

He certainly doesn't come over as a "nice boy" to me, despite me being undecided about his guilt.

[Holly Goodhead]

The idea of Nevill calling his drug taking, playboy son for help in the middle of the night is risible in the first place.
He told Barbara Wilson he feared him and was "capable of anything"

But this is all subjective, hearsay, rumour etc.

You refer to JB as a drug taker and playboy and yet all his circle were into recreational drugs including SC whose post mortem confirmed as much.  In terms of playboy has any woman ever come forward to say he acted inappropriately?  I've no interest in his sexual conquests or lack of but if adults consent what's the problem? He wasn't ever in any sort of serious committed relationship.  If you want to get all moral about it what about CC going off to have sex outside with a woman at SC's 21st birthday and going off with another woman 5 months after SC gave birth to the twins.

[Holly Goodhead]

He certainly doesn't come over as a "nice boy" to me, despite me being undecided about his guilt.

What's the definition of nice?  Does it matter when looking at the evidence?  How would any of us know about his true character unless we spent time with him?

[Miss Taken Identity]

The sort of phone data available today did not exist in 1985.

By all accounts the Bamber's kept SC's mental illness private.  NB was a local magistrate who kept a number of firearms on his property none of which were kept in accordance with the law.  WHF was very remote if NB called EP would they be able to locate it quickly?  By calling JB it was getting him in the loop. Evidence exists the farm was growing opium poppies which no-one can account for.


A tel engineer was called at trial:

68. There was no evidence of telephone billing information of the sort which would be available these days. There was, however, expert evidence called as to the effect of a telephone call having been made from White House Farm to Goldhanger which was then abandoned by the caller with the receiver being left off the cradle, as claimed by the appellant. If such a sequence had occurred, the telephone link would have remained open either until the handset at White House Farm was replaced or until the handset at Goldhanger had been replaced and left in position for a period which could vary from 1 to 2 minutes, when an automatic interruption of the link would take place. Until one or other of these events, the appellant would have been unable to make any call from the Goldhanger telephone.[/i]

By calling JB it was getting him in the loop  placing him in harms way and wasting valuable time- the emergency police wouldn't know how to get to the farm?- so how did they find out how to get there?  * can't stop laughing at this bit*
 
"Evidence exists the farm was growing opium poppies which no-one can account for."  was this the parents/family you think and not poor JB? What about the bit of bother JB got into down under? and the stolen money from the Cpark?

Was the tel engineer for the defence?


You could get itemised bill from BT in 1984 my parents still have some for tax purposes.

I have done that experiment I called my friend on land line then cut off- they tried to call me  back and it wasn't engaged - it rang!    We did it the other way- I phoned him- he cut me off then tried to phone me and it was engaged as I hadn't hung up.  If the phone at WHF was used it was used by JB as a tactical ploy when he was there with the murdered family- IMO.

[Holly Goodhead]

By calling JB it was getting him in the loop  placing him in harms way and wasting valuable time- the emergency police wouldn't know how to get to the farm?- so how did they find out how to get there?  * can't stop laughing at this bit*
 
"Evidence exists the farm was growing opium poppies which no-one can account for."  was this the parents/family you think and not poor JB? What about the bit of bother JB got into down under? and the stolen money from the Cpark?

Was the tel engineer for the defence?


You could get itemised bill from BT in 1984 my parents still have some for tax purposes.

I have done that experiment I called my friend on land line then cut off- they tried to call me  back and it wasn't engaged - it rang!    We did it the other way- I phoned him- he cut me off then tried to phone me and it was engaged as I hadn't hung up.  If the phone at WHF was used it was used by JB as a tactical ploy when he was there with the murdered family- IMO.

Itemised billing definitely wasn't available for the numbers under investigation. 

I don't know who called the tel expert.

Your experiment maybe the case for today's infrastructure and phones but we're talking 1985 pre digital.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Itemised billing definitely wasn't available for the numbers under investigation. 

I don't know who called the tel expert.

Your experiment maybe the case for today's infrastructure and phones but we're talking 1985 pre digital.

I am talking land lines-nothing has changed regard to that!

[John]

I disagree but take comfort in knowing I'm still your favourite moderator 

But why do you disagree Holly? 

[John]

Itemised billing definitely wasn't available for the numbers under investigation. 

I don't know who called the tel expert.

Your experiment maybe the case for today's infrastructure and phones but we're talking 1985 pre digital.

If I recall correctly, local calls were billed as units but the technology didn't identify individual numbers. For out of area or national calls which were more expensive, individual numbers and the time and duration of the call was shown on the statement. Ditto international calls.

[John]

68. There was no evidence of telephone billing information of the sort which would be available these days. There was, however, expert evidence called as to the effect of a telephone call having been made from White House Farm to Goldhanger which was then abandoned by the caller with the receiver being left off the cradle, as claimed by the appellant. If such a sequence had occurred, the telephone link would have remained open either until the handset at White House Farm was replaced or until the handset at Goldhanger had been replaced and left in position for a period which could vary from 1 to 2 minutes, when an automatic interruption of the link would take place. Until one or other of these events, the appellant would have been unable to make any call from the Goldhanger telephone.

I agree with the above. Had a call been made from WHF to Goldhanger and abandoned the line would have remained open. But had the caller at WHF cancelled the call by replacing the handset or pushing down on the handset receptors and left the handset off the hook then anyone calling WHF would get the engaged tone.

JB said the phone went dead which would indicate that someone cancelled the call and probably left the phone off the hook. However, imo, after committing mass murder, JB placed a call to Goldhanger himself before cancelling it and leaving the handset on the sideboard.  This is consistent with what happened later as the local exchange operator was able to listen in on the open line to WHF.

[Caroline]

If I recall correctly, local calls were billed as units but the technology didn't identify individual numbers. For out of area or national calls which were more expensive, individual numbers and the time and duration of the call was shown on the statement. Ditto international calls.

You're right, they were billed in units, just like electricity - no itemised bills until later.

[Myster]

The sort of phone data available today did not exist in 1985.

By all accounts the Bamber's kept SC's mental illness private.  NB was a local magistrate who kept a number of firearms on his property none of which were kept in accordance with the law.  WHF was very remote if NB called EP would they be able to locate it quickly?  By calling JB it was getting him in the loop. Evidence exists the farm was growing opium poppies which no-one can account for.

A tel engineer was called at trial:

68. There was no evidence of telephone billing information of the sort which would be available these days. There was, however, expert evidence called as to the effect of a telephone call having been made from White House Farm to Goldhanger which was then abandoned by the caller with the receiver being left off the cradle, as claimed by the appellant. If such a sequence had occurred, the telephone link would have remained open either until the handset at White House Farm was replaced or until the handset at Goldhanger had been replaced and left in position for a period which could vary from 1 to 2 minutes, when an automatic interruption of the link would take place. Until one or other of these events, the appellant would have been unable to make any call from the Goldhanger telephone.

Of course they can!  Bamber said they had a special licence to grow them.... his pet project as a step up from weed.