White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 6

[Caroline]

That's what I said.

Not really, you said CC's letter was at odds with his claims that SC was a loving mother which kind of suggests she wasn't. She was physically debilitated which has nothing to do with her feelings for her children.

[Holly Goodhead]

Not really, you said CC's letter was at odds with his claims that SC was a loving mother which kind of suggests she wasn't. She was physically debilitated which has nothing to do with her feelings for her children.

Anyway my reason for posting this was to illustrate contrary to CC's assertions SC was a wonderful mother it is clear from his letter and Dr F's testimony that sadly SC's mental illness prevented her from being the mother she was prior to its onset.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11226.msg574739#msg574739

[Caroline]

Anyway my reason for posting this was to illustrate contrary to CC's assertions SC was a wonderful mother it is clear from his letter and Dr F's testimony that sadly SC's mental illness prevented her from being the mother she was prior to its onset.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11226.msg574739#msg574739

That doesn't mean she wasn't a 'wonderful mother'.

[Holly Goodhead]

That doesn't mean she wasn't a 'wonderful mother'.

Based on CC's letter I do t think SC was capable of parenting the twins and meeting their basic needs hence CC was the prime carer at the time. 

[Caroline]

Based on CC's letter I do t think SC was capable of parenting the twins and meeting their basic needs hence CC was the prime carer at the time.

Given that you don't know what CC was referring to when he made the comment, your castigation is somewhat harsh. Wonderful mother - may simply mean that she loved the twins and always tried to do her best - sadly what became her best diminished due to her illness - nevertheless, HE still considered her a 'wonderful mother'!

[steve_trousers]

Based on CC's letter I do t think SC was capable of parenting the twins and meeting their basic needs hence CC was the prime carer at the time.

Using that letter as proof she was an unfit mother is just more utter nonsense in my opinion. I don't see how you can defend that statement based on the tone and content of that letter.

Colin was upset because June was pushing religion on to his kids, and Sheila was struggling with motherhood. Nothing to see here.
 

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Based on CC's letter I do t think SC was capable of parenting the twins and meeting their basic needs hence CC was the prime carer at the time.

Sheila was unwell, but she wasn’t a psychopath like Jeremy

It’s dreadfully sad that Sheila suffered, but at least she acknowledged it and sought help...unlike the unfeeling, cold, evil Jeremy who used Sheila’s health problems to try and get away with murder to feed his disgusting repulsive greed

[Caroline]

Sheila was unwell, but she wasn’t a psychopath like Jeremy

It’s dreadfully sad that Sheila suffered, but at least she acknowledged it and sought help...unlike the unfeeling, cold, evil Jeremy who used Sheila’s health problems to try and get away with murder to feed his disgusting repulsive greed

Holly genuinely believes Bamber is innocent and I defo don't think she has the hots for him. The letter she posted from Colin is already on the internet. Holly is really not that bad - for a supporter,

[adam]

Julie's testimony in the drama has her saying she was in shock and scared after the massacre. Saying Bamber told her if he was arrested, so would she. In her TV interview she says how Jeremy was so confident afterwards.

It is lucky she did come forward as she would not have known the police were suspiscious of Bamber. 

People have different views of when she should have come forward. One person suggesting she should have started saying everything in the police car on the way to WHF!

[Brietta]

Julie's testimony in the drama has her saying she was in shock and scared after the massacre. Saying Bamber told her if he was arrested, so would she. In her TV interview she says how Jeremy was so confident afterwards.

It is lucky she did come forward as she would not have known the police were suspiscious of Bamber. 

People have different views of when she should have come forward. One person suggesting she should have started saying everything in the police car on the way to WHF!

I think it was an unprecedented crime and I think that it probably took some time for any niggling suspicion she might have had about Jeremy's involvement to have any substance for her ~ and I think it was his subsequent behaviour which made the unthinkable a valid option as far as she was concerned.

At the time, I don't think that he could have claimed she was an accomplice without further incriminating himself, but I think he might have been able to convince her otherwise.  Particularly if she was in denial that he could have been capable of committing the murders if not of his parents and Sheila but of the twins.

If she had voiced her suspicions immediately, particularly if she wasn't really sure of them, would it have made a difference to the outcome?
Would he have skilled lawyered up and if the police had been looking for an intruder instead of accepting murder/suicide would there have been sufficient forensic evidence against him?  Much of what raised suspicion was his behaviour in the aftermath ... would he have behaved as he did if he hadn't thought he had got off with it?

I think Julie might have become worried that someone she suspected of mass murderer would have no qualms about adding one more who might have incriminated him to the list.
But that consideration and conscience about the information she had about his attitude to the victims prior to the murders forced her to come forward and make her statement to the police.

I think she showed extraordinary bravery in coming forward because it wasn't a given the police would take her seriously nor was it a given they would be able to substantiate her statement regarding the murders but they might have taken note of her presence/assistance at the burglary.

[Holly Goodhead]

I think it was an unprecedented crime and I think that it probably took some time for any niggling suspicion she might have had about Jeremy's involvement to have any substance for her ~ and I think it was his subsequent behaviour which made the unthinkable a valid option as far as she was concerned.

At the time, I don't think that he could have claimed she was an accomplice without further incriminating himself, but I think he might have been able to convince her otherwise.  Particularly if she was in denial that he could have been capable of committing the murders if not of his parents and Sheila but of the twins.

If she had voiced her suspicions immediately, particularly if she wasn't really sure of them, would it have made a difference to the outcome?
Would he have skilled lawyered up and if the police had been looking for an intruder instead of accepting murder/suicide would there have been sufficient forensic evidence against him?  Much of what raised suspicion was his behaviour in the aftermath ... would he have behaved as he did if he hadn't thought he had got off with it?

I think Julie might have become worried that someone she suspected of mass murderer would have no qualms about adding one more who might have incriminated him to the list.
But that consideration and conscience about the information she had about his attitude to the victims prior to the murders forced her to come forward and make her statement to the police.

I think she showed extraordinary bravery in coming forward because it wasn't a given the police would take her seriously nor was it a given they would be able to substantiate her statement regarding the murders but they might have taken note of her presence/assistance at the burglary.

JM didn't come forward, it was supposedly her friend Liz Rimmington, who had sex with JB whilst he was in a relationship with JM, who supposedly contacted the police asking for DS Jones. 

What evidence exists showing LR or anyone contacted the police and it wasn't the other way round?  All JB's circle who gave evidence against him were to some degree involved with recreational drugs which may well have been used against them.

[Holly Goodhead]

Given that you don't know what CC was referring to when he made the comment, your castigation is somewhat harsh. Wonderful mother - may simply mean that she loved the twins and always tried to do her best - sadly what became her best diminished due to her illness - nevertheless, HE still considered her a 'wonderful mother'!

I've made clear my position that due to SC's mental illness she was no longer able to meet the twin's basic needs hence CC's letter to NB asking for his support in putting to SC he should be the main carer.  This can be further evidenced by Dr Ferguson's testimony.  When SC was admitted to St Andrews in Mar/Apr 1985 the twins went to CC and when she left St Andrews in Apr '85 they remained with CC up until the murders.  CC did not intend for SC to become the main carer again. 

You and other long-term posters here and elsewhere will know I have always defended SC from comments made by those who believe JB responsible and those who believe SC responsible eg that she was promiscuous and had a 40k drug debt both of which imo are completely untrue and not a scrap of evidence exists to say otherwise.  I've also never become involved in posts about SC physically abusing the twins as I've never seen evidence for this.

[Brietta]

I've made clear my position that due to SC's mental illness she was no longer able to meet the twin's basic needs hence CC's letter to NB asking for his support in putting to SC he should be the main carer.  This can be further evidenced by Dr Ferguson's testimony.  When SC was admitted to St Andrews in Mar/Apr 1985 the twins went to CC and when she left St Andrews in Apr '85 they remained with CC up until the murders.  CC did not intend for SC to become the main carer again. 

You and other long-term posters here and elsewhere will know I have always defended SC from comments made by those who believe JB responsible and those who believe SC responsible eg that she was promiscuous and had a 40k drug debt both of which imo are completely untrue and not a scrap of evidence exists to say otherwise.  I've also never become involved in posts about SC physically abusing the twins as I've never seen evidence for this.

Then why bring it up at risk of perpetuating it.
For example I am new and knew nothing about these allegations ... why did you think me and others like me should have been informed of what you seem to think is nothing more than rumour and innuendo?

[Holly Goodhead]

Then why bring it up at risk of perpetuating it.
For example I am new and knew nothing about these allegations ... why did you think me and others like me should have been informed of what you seem to think is nothing more than rumour and innuendo?

Best hear them here from me rather than read them elsewhere and think there might be some truth in them.

[Brietta]

Best hear them here from me rather than read them elsewhere and think there might be some truth in them.

If you were able to work it out for yourself why do you suppose I or anyone else wouldn't be capable of doing likewise... and go to the trouble of ensuring there is yet another inaccuracy receiving the light of day on the internet for our enlightenment?
I don't think the Drama visited too much of the character assassination Sheila suffered, and that was no bad thing.